Difference between a good and a bad Janna

Ahristocats·Apr 9, 2017·75 votes·5,956 views

Bad Janna players: -in teamfight, use shield on a tank when shielding 240 damage on a durable target is inferior to giving ~~50 AD to an adc -use Q W and R mindlessly -stay behind everytime

Good Janna players: -use Q and R to stop dashes -when escaping, they use Q to the direction they're walking and wait to have the time to charge it and have a full duration knock up -when escaping, they never use the slow because it's inferior to the passive bonus movement speed -when chasing, they remain in front of their allies to give them bonus movement speed -use R to bring enemies close to their allies a la lee sin -use R to relocate enemies into Q area to get a full duration knock up -use R to knock people through walls

and yet, people insist everytime on how little the difference is between a good janna player and a bad janna player

how comes?

-gH

108 Comments

TyrekGoldenspearApr 9, 201741 votes

Probably becuase a lot of people haven't seen good Jannas.

Then again I'm not surprised of thw board's ignorance. They didn't know the Tragedy of Dr Sona X Rubick after all.

RainXBladeApr 9, 20175 votes

What's that tragedy though? I know Dr Sona X Rubick's a famous name here in the boards, but I might as well ask what's that tragedy all about.

TyrekGoldenspearApr 9, 201760 votes

It's not a story the Boards will tell you. It's a high elo legend.

Dr. Sona X Rubick was a Darius ADC player. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use his favorite champion and influence the kappaclorians to create... a new meta.

He had such a knowledge of bullying laners that he could even keep the ones he cared about, from losing. The dark side of the meta is a pathway to many winrates that some would consider unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his lane, which eventually, of course, he did.

Unfortunately, he taught a Lulu main everything he knew, then his apprentice bullied him out of lane in her sleep. Ironic, he could save others from losing, but not himself.

chipndip1Apr 9, 201730 votes

Dude sounding like he's trying to win a fucking Emmy with this story telling.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/982/post-19715-Brent-Rambo-gif-thumbs-up-imgu-L3yP.gif

FioraWillCarryApr 9, 201715 votes

He's referencing a Star Wars scene:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLfGh2b_me0

AhristocatsApr 9, 20173 votes

but i'm no longer Dr. Sona X Rubick now

TyrekGoldenspearApr 9, 201711 votes

Well gee. Thanks for spoiling it. Nobody else knew, and it made your tale... A tragedy...

AhristocatsApr 9, 20176 votes

hm i'm bad at humor, but i thought it was still a tragedy because of how i was killed by a lulu main?

TyrekGoldenspearApr 9, 201710 votes

Yes, but it would have been like, twice the tragedy if people stopped seeing your Dr Sona X Rubick name around here AND didn't know it was you. :P

Big LincolnApr 9, 20174 votes

deep lore

l Dárius lApr 9, 20172 votes

oh shet

Sexy Jack RabbitApr 11, 20171 votes

OOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooh

Jeddy017Apr 9, 20176 votes

.......is it possible to learn this power?

Hyrum GraffApr 9, 20175 votes

{quoted}

.......is it possible to learn this power?

[Dramatic pause]

Not from a Bronze 5.

Hyrum GraffApr 9, 20172 votes

Only suggestion: A general discussion legend :P

{quoted}

It's not a story the Boards will tell you. It's a gd legend.

Dr. Sona X Rubick was a Darius ADC player. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use his favorite champion and influence the kappaclorians to create... a new meta.

He had such a knowledge of bullying laners that he could even keep the ones he cared about, from losing. The dark side of the meta is a pathway to many winrates that some would consider unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his lane, which eventually, of course, he did.

Unfortunately, he taught a Lulu main everything he knew, then his apprentice bullied him out of lane in her sleep. Ironic, he could save others from losing, but not himself.

ftfy. Only suggestion I'd make, though.

Yaśuo MainApr 9, 20172 votes

I think Sona being neglected and most of their posts being down voted (posts are about sona and how bad she is in very high elo) ironically because most of gameplay is gold

So it's kind of a hard time to have your main being neglected by every single thing. Atleast that's what I think it is.

SpecterVonBarenApr 9, 20174 votes

To be fair, you don't need to be that good with Janna to be effective. Her skillfloor is one of the lowest in the game.

Big LincolnApr 9, 201728 votes

most of it's not necessary to be effective with her

NymzoApr 9, 20174 votes

Have to agree on that one.

You can keep things to a minimal and still win a teamfight.

chipndip1Apr 9, 201713 votes

Because being a good Janna takes very little. Being a GREAT Janna is more like you described (when consistent). You could easily make par by doing the minimum on this champ, floating around and spamming E with occasional AAs or something cute.

PaquayApr 9, 20178 votes

https://youtu.be/jPiFvmqnrDs

My only good Janna play ever. :P

Sire HippingtonApr 9, 20178 votes

because people have issue to differentiate between skill floor and skill cap. The thing with Janna is even if she'S bad, she has quit a decent impact, giving the (correct) imppresion that you don't have to be good with janna to make her worke. This means she has a low skill floor. But what people usually don't see is how much shit janna can do if played correctly as she does have a high skill cap.

Also, the majority of people think there is only one kind of skill in the game: Mechanics(and sadly riot caters to those people). Stuff like tactical decisionmakeing(what targets do i choose for my skills, when do i use my, do i use them at all like jannas W and so on) is usually disregarded. And usually the mechanically simple champs have a rather high tactical skillcap. Garen for examle is as easy as it gets in terms of mechanics, yet he always has a rather high difference between new players and experienced players in high elo because with how little tools he has, it is really important to use the few he has very well. Use your Q at the wrong time or chase the wrong target and you loose the fight.

Handin Out NapsApr 9, 20178 votes

It doesn't matter if you are good or bad at Janna. You can be a monkey and still win games with her.

DracocrashApr 9, 20173 votes

those differences you listed take 0 skill and can be learned in 1 or 2 games.

SUPP0RT MAINApr 9, 20173 votes

As a Support Main and Janna main long ago I approve this message, it is very accurate to the T.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Hyrum GraffApr 9, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=gh God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79yA8B4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-09T16:53:31.003+0000)

-in teamfight, use shield on a tank when shielding 240 damage on a durable target is inferior to giving ~~50 AD to an adc

Only point I'll contest. If my tank is very low, but near their next round of cooldowns, sometimes it's better to shield the tank.

Most of the time it's better to shield the adc, but it's not something you can make a blanket assertion about.

RainXBladeApr 9, 20172 votes

Because Janna is a simple support where all she does is prevent people on engaging with the occasional shielding of the carry part. I can't same the same for Lulu though, as Lulu has far more options that Janna does.

cocacolalipsApr 10, 20173 votes

fyi, Janna is the most difficult support to play (right behind Bard's roaming shenanigans) according to Riot difficulty rating

if you think otherwise, that simply means there is a lot of stuff you don't quite understand about the game

stuff like, positioning, cast range, cast speed, travel time, ability radius, skillshot vs hitscan vs aoe, reactive play, preemptive play, etc etc all those variables that make abilities different from each other matter and impact how difficult each ability is to use effectively

playing lulu is easier because she is very reliable and effective at the same time, you can't miss or misplay the same way you can miss a janna Q, misplay a janna R, or fail to use janna's passive (on top of other stuff she shares with other supports, like failing to cast E reactively fast enough etc). all lulu's abilities are point and click and are effective regardless of lulu positioning, you can't say the same for janna. a bad janna (or someone outplaying your janna) will lose you the game on her own, a bad lulu (and you can't really outplay a lulu per se) will just be meh at worst.

Exercise85Apr 10, 20172 votes

As someone who plays both, i dont really understand your reasoning behind saying that lulu is easier. Both have a skillshot q, janna's has a delay for maximum effectivness, while lulu's comes from two locations and you need to aim it to hit as many people as possible. Janna has a point and click slow that deals damage (lol), lulu also has one point and click damage. Janna has a point and click shield, lulu has a point and click shield she can use if she didnt use it for damage. Janna's ult can be ruined if cast at the wrong time or the wrong place, lulu's if cast at the wrong time or the wrong person.

Maybe your saying lulu is easier to win games with. If so you might be right as she has an extra spell, more damage, and a stronger steroid. I will say that i think most people cant tell the difference between a good and a bad janna because of how low key she can be. "If you do something right, no one should be able to tell that you have done anything at all". That goes for alot of supports though.

Invoker onlyApr 9, 20172 votes

Bad Janna players: -in teamfight, use shield on a tank when shielding 240 damage on a durable target is inferior to giving ~~50 AD to an adc -use Q W and R mindlessly -stay behind everytime

I don't get it. First point. Why is it not usefull to give the tank the shield? He is the front line. When he can stay alive longer, the enemys are not able to attack the carries. Second point. Ok, what is your definition of mindlessly. Last point. She is squishy. Where should she stay?

BluePolarizerApr 9, 20178 votes

Giving 240 HP is like giving the tank an extra 500 gold worth of stats.

Giving 50 AD to an ADC not getting hit is giving the ADC a BF sword + longsword of stats worth 1750 gold.

DarkRitualApr 9, 20177 votes

The gold to adc is in ADDITION to the 500 gold worth of shield as well.

l Dárius lApr 9, 20172 votes

good janna doesn't use ult to knock people out of her own turret when teamates aren't close to dying

she also doesn't knock people with 4 darius stacks out of his range

or she just doesn't knock ranged champs out of melee when the melee's are winning

or knock the enemy team out of important cc

these things generally lose the fight and sometimes games if they are to fucking stupid to stop doing it.

Kitsuki05Apr 9, 20172 votes

if you're only being chased by one enemy, using the W slow on them can actually be superior

Ariel the CruelApr 10, 20173 votes

Crunch time!

Quoted is math. Skip to bottom for conclusion.

Assume: Janna and her chaser each move 10 units per second. Janna's W max rank. +17% MS while not on CD / -40% MS for 3 seconds. 0 AP and CDR.

Over the 12 second CD, both units will have a shared distance of 120. Janna with her passive will move [10+(10x0.17)=11.7]x12 = 140.4 If the opponent is hit by her W, they will lose [10-(10x0.4)=6]x3=18 units bringing them to 102.

So over the course of 12 seconds, the distance differential between using it and not: hold: 20.4 use: 18

---------

Assume 45% CDR (W = 6.6) 10 units per second.

6.6 x 10 = 66 units shared distance. Janna with W: 11.7x6.6 = 77.22 Opponent use: 66-(3x3=9) = 57

Over the 6.6 seconds, the distance differential" Hold: 11.2 Use: 9

----------

Teir 2 (355) moves about 6% faster. 10 -> 10.6

12 second: Total units = 127.2 [10.6-(10.6x0.4)=6.36]x3= 19.08. Total = 107.4 Differential

hold: 13.2
use: 12.6

6.6 second: Total units: 69.96 69.96-19.08=50.88 Differential:

Hold: 7.26
use: 15.12

This can go up or down based on each champion's MS. Since Janna has tier 6 MS (335), that means just over half the cast moves as fast as her or slower innately. (76 of 139 ~ 55%, includes mini/mega Gnar, mounted/unmounted Kled, lvl1/18 Cass.)

So without looking for exact MS breaking points or factoring AP, we can conclude that you are correct. Using W can be more effective in a 1v1 chase. Though it is often more effective to hold it. We're really talking a matter of %'s here.

AhristocatsApr 10, 20171 votes

Well, i'm glad i have someone sparing me time to explain

thank you!

Ariel the CruelApr 10, 20171 votes

The math was actually for me. While I've always held it as a rule of thumb, I never actually took the time to verify it before. (>_>)

Worst support main ever. Doesn't even know every detail of every champion! XD

AhristocatsApr 10, 20171 votes

well i'm one of the worst support main ever too then

we're 2

iPooUnicornsApr 9, 20172 votes

Good Jannas don't die, nor do their ADCs.

Ariel the CruelApr 10, 20179 votes

Vayne Want to test that theory? ;p

noxus is opApr 10, 20172 votes

I swear to fukn god that i did 3/4 of that list for good jannas on my first janna game a couple of days ago like the only thing i didnt do was use my r to setup my q seems like alot of work for small payoff doe. and i also did the same for the bad jannas too .... hmmmmmm.....

Fondling GemsApr 10, 20172 votes

Don't forget good Janna who wont always shield the burst of an enemy in lane and then put up the shield for the AD boost. So long as they don't die from the burst it is more efficient since you are still getting the shield off and they have that bonus AD for longer.

Glory ln DeathApr 10, 20171 votes

It's like with Sion. The damage his shield does is often worth much more than the damage it could absorb.

Fondling GemsApr 10, 20171 votes

Especially with Janna, since oftentimes the shield will get broken anyways. So you are going to block the same amount of damage. The difference is blocking the burst part and your ADC getting maybe one boosted aa, or blocking the sustained DPS and your ADC getting 2-3+ aa's.

Of course then you have to worry about enemies throwing out burst then backing off in which case your ADC lost health and you don't get to retaliate.

Envoy of MelodyApr 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=gh God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79yA8B4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-09T16:53:31.003+0000) -use Q and R to stop dashes

Never waste ultimate on a dashing opponent if you can use your Q instead, unless he's an assassin and about to nuke one of your teammates. Your ultimate should be a tool to heal up people and keep threats away, not to dick on the enemy Yasuo and Renekton manhandling the frontline while you're all at full health.

[{quoted}](name=gh God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79yA8B4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-09T16:53:31.003+0000) -when escaping, they use Q to the direction they're walking and wait to have the time to charge it and have a full duration knock up

It doesn't make a Janna less professional if they aim their tornado at the enemy team + minions. It buys them time to defend a turret because it's naturally tankier when there's no minions around.

[{quoted}](name=gh God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79yA8B4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-09T16:53:31.003+0000) -when escaping, they never use the slow because it's inferior to the passive bonus movement speed

Actually, you'll ALWAYS want to use your slow if you're being pursued by single person, I.E. Yasuo outrunning you solo while his team is behind. Depends entirely on the situation.

[{quoted}](name=gh God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79yA8B4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-09T16:53:31.003+0000) -when chasing, they remain in front of their allies to give them bonus movement speed

Depends on your build. You don't wanna be at the frontline as a full AP Shieldbot Janna, which I personally like a lot more than "3000 health Janna with 500 shield that has 0 bonus AD scaling because you have 0 AP".

[{quoted}](name=gh God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=79yA8B4E,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-09T16:53:31.003+0000) -use R to bring enemies close to their allies a la lee sin

Depends on the phase of the game. Don't actually flash into the enemies in a teamfight to try and displace anyone, it's absolutely terrible. You're making it hard for your teammates to land skillshots and you're either denying them the healing of your ult or you're forcing them to rush to the front to get some of the healing. You can pull Flash Ults in the early laning phase when somebody ganks you or you're better at trading than the enemy team, but never do that in a teamfight if you can avoid it.

BLACK REALM GODApr 9, 20171 votes

item 3009 item 3113 item 2053 item 2049 item 3028 and item 3301 or item 3303 ?

DarkRitualApr 9, 20174 votes

item 3301 if you're playing into an aggressive lane. You're not poking enough to stack STE procs. Plus the item 3069 active is much more useful, as is the armor on it.