Balancing based on pros: what makes sense?

The Ecdysiast··3 votes·2,828 views

Several aspects of the game are intended to reward higher skill and awareness. And as such, it makes sense to balance them around the players who are the top of the line in both aspects. Champions that are high skill cap mechanically who perform poorly at the bottom but well for professionals are one. Lee Sin has usually been the shining example of this. Vision items are another, as it's the players who remember to use them who are actually effected.


However, we've seen one trend among a specific pool of champions that pertains only to professional play and greatly hinders their use for the other 99.97% of players. That'd be the long-range movement champions (Twisted Fate, Pantheon, Nocturne, Shen, Taliyah, and most importantly Ryze). While TF, Panth, and Noc all had their ranges nerfed many years ago, and that worked to nerf them at the highest level of play without hurting them too much for essentially the entire actual playerbase. However, just recently we've seen Taliyah get hit with unfair nerfs simply because she was doing well roaming in professional play. Shen has scalings he can't build for effectively.

But the worst of all, and perhaps the worst example of any champions' balance (while being bad, not overpowered) is Ryze. He's been sitting at a 41-45 winrate for every rank below the professional level for quite some time now, because his ultimate is extremely overpowered-- when you have a full team of people playing this game together, day in and day out.

Contrary to champions who are more mechanically difficult, Ryze's difficulty revolves around the entire team's coordination. And as such, it makes very little sense to be balancing him around the teams with more coordination than is possible for the vast majority of players.


Aside from that glaring example, a similar one would be champions who are too strong for the majority because the pros have the coordination to shut them down easily. Nasus is who comes to mind first, and of course in games that are generally shorter than average and snowball even harder he'd be unable to exploit his main strength. But for the at-home players, he can easily overwhelm a team for lacking the coordination to capitalize on small leads.


I get it. Ryze doesn't have good skins. So there's no incentive to make him usable for the masses, because the masses won't bother to buy his skins. And making more is a gamble, since it's much more difficult to make a skin good enough for people to play a champion they're not used to than it is to make a new sub-par skin for a champion people like and still sell it (more skins for Lux despite the Ultimate).

But it's still not good for balance when even a champion with a less than 2% playrate (basically just mains) can't perform well.

11 Comments

Teridax682 votes

The problem I think comes from stacking on too many mechanics that are good at the pro level, and not implementing enough mechanics that are good at lower skill ranks. Champions designed in this manner tend to be competitive terrors long after getting nerfed repeatedly, even if those nerfs bring their win rate down to the low 40s globally. The fact that these nerfs often target mechanics that newer players rely on tends to make matters worse. Conversely, some champions have the opposite problem, with a core design that has too much stuff that's good at low elo, and too little that's competitively viable (e.g. Garen, Nasus as mentioned in the OP, and most other juggernauts). If Riot wants to have an easier time balancing their champions for all elos, or at least be able to balance for pro play without leaving champions in a crappy state everywhere else, they need to have a clear awareness of which mechanics are good at which skill level. Additionally, they need to bake in a mix of these different implementations into each champion's kit, and tune them in future balance work in a manner that targets their performance at specific elos directly.


An abstract example of what I'm talking about: Champion X has mechanic A and mechanic B. Mechanic A requires team coordination, and so is strong in really organized play but terrible in solo queue/low elo; mechanic B is countered by team coordination, and so is strong in less organized play, but countered at the pro level. Alternatively, these mechanics may have other characteristics that make them particularly good at one level but not the other. You then end up with a clear solution to the most common problem cases:

  • If the champion's too good in pro play, but balanced/weak in low elo, you'd crank mechanic A down in power, and mechanic B up, until balance is restored.
  • If the champion's too good in low elo, but balanced/weak in pro, you'd do the opposite, and tune mechanic A up, while tuning mechanic B down.
  • If the champion's too good at all elos, you'd tune both mechanics down until balance is achieved.
  • If the champion's not doing so well, you'd tune both mechanics up.

This is obviously a huge simplification, since champions usually have more than two mechanics, but as long as there's at least one mechanic of each type, the champion would be good to go.


Let's see how this applies to Ryze:

  • The clearest A-type mechanic for Ryze would likely be his ult. Its ability to teleport other players practically requires voice chat in order to pull off any sort of play with it. Because you're getting to teleport other champions on-demand and fairly quickly, it's also not something organized teams can counter especially well.
  • Ryze doesn't have many B-type mechanics, but his Flux range is probably one of them. Spreading Flux to multiple enemies can be done with some amount of reliability, and the resulting effect allows Ryze to land his Q damage more reliably. Additionally, if he lands this against a disorganized, clumped-up team, he can do some serious damage (by contrast, if they spread out, which will happen in organized play, it'll be much less effective).

Thus, if this model works, nerfing his ult (probably by increasing its channel time and warning) and buffing his E Flux spread should result in Ryze becoming less competitively popular, but stronger at all other elos. This would obviously not solve his problems in the long-term, as Ryze likely needs yet another rework, but it could still help him out in the short term.


Now let's try this with Nasus:

  • Nasus's armor shred probably qualifies as an A-type mechanic. It enables any other physical damage-dealer on his team, and can be applied pretty reliably within at least the first few moments of being cast.
  • Wither's slow duration is likely a B-type mechanic. An organized team will likely know to have their carry stay out of Wither range, and if they do get CCed, they can quickly react in time to cover up with peel. At low elo, by contrast, players often find themselves dueling Nasus and feeling like they have absolutely no answer to such a prolonged instance of crowd control.

If Nasus is pubstomping but not doing competitively well, which seems to be the case, one potential solution could therefore be to buff his armor shred (e.g. by buffing its strength or linger duration), and nerf his Wither duration, in order to push him towards a better state of balance across low and high elos.


Apologies for the wall of text, and to repeat, all of this grossly oversimplifies champions and the number of mechanics they have, but this I think could be the general idea to a balance/design philosophy that would allow Riot to implement and pull the right balance levers for different levels of play. I personally dislike the whole "should Riot balance for pros or casuals?" dichotomy, because I think they can and should do both. A game that is balanced exclusively around pros is an unbalanced mess at every other elo, and a game that is balanced exclusively around casuals is going to create a massive amount of stagnation and imbalance at the competitive level. Riot's attempts in the past to do both have come across as fairly disorganized and isolated, which is why the above model could perhaps point towards a means of balancing more finely across all skill levels.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

You pretty much nailed it.

Madsin251 votes

I don't understand. The winrate means NOTHING.

You are acting like ryze only has a high winrate with mains because of his teleport. That's just not true.

Any mid laner that has had the honor of going up against a GOOD ryze KNOWS he is oppressive.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Care to explain or provide proof? Champions he "counters" are only top laners who decided to go mid and build damage. Yeah, obviously he should be oppressive to Gragas.

And no, Ryze doesn't have a high winrate with mains. My point was that even though his less than 2% playrate is nearly only mains, he still only has a 42% success rate.

Any midlaner who's good with their own champion beats a good Ryze. Obviously, in any matchup, if you don't know your champion and the enemy is mastery 7 you should lose.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

The best ryze players don't even level their ult until around lvl 13. There goes your argument.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Proof of this? And proof it does anything for his performance?

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

Go to ryze masters, click the down arrow on their games, click "build" http://na.op.gg/champion/ryze/statistics/mid

Proof it does anything for their performance... their rank.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Well, no, actually, that's proof of my point. It's only working for people in masters.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

You claim the ult is only good in high dia+ because those players have the coordination to use his ult well, yet at those ranks ryze mains don't put a point into R until they've maxed Q and E. Only lower ranked ryze players take R whenever available. That is the flaw in your argument.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

ryze has always had a low winrate in SoloQ while still being a pretty good pick in competitive play. This is not limited to this iteration. Even before his previous rework, that didn't had the current ult in any capacity, it was still the case

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Yes, but it was never 40% across the board.

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