"Shut up noobs ad itemization isnt superior"

Succubús GF··45 votes·9,938 views

Null orb, a keystone that blocks only magic damage, something aps do not receive and hexdrinker Compare that to what ap champions get 15 armor, that they have to WORK FOR and not an active. They also get qss and we can buy it but not finish it because its an AD item See the problem? See why we complain? We want defensive options against duskblade. not mage stat buffs or even more burst Like i think most mage mains would agree that we would be fine with no damage compensation if we could at least be able to fairly build on an even playing field. Sincerely, An e-girl mage main Petty sub-tweethere*

140 Comments

Hay5eed7 votes

AD itemization might not be..."superior"

But it IS so much safer. AD items give you some support in case you don't get fed...

Something else that is kinda funny to think about is theseitem 3020 item 3047 and item 3111

As an assassin laning against a mage I will probably get those Merc treads because they provide a lot of utility for me. 1.) Increased movespeed helps me dodge skill shots 2.) MR helps me tank magic damage 3.) Passive makes CC less effective.

When I buy Merc Treads, I am only benefiting myself, there IS no other option.

Mages however have to choose between item 3020 and item 3047

The movespeed on the ninja tabi is regardless because assassins always have all in potential (dashes and blinks to get you) The armor is alright The passive doesn't do anything for you because assassins are ability based

Sorc shoes give you magic penetration but MR is still an effective option against you

saltran6 votes

Wait...is this a parody or a real post?

Succubús GF16 votes

the title was a parody of what someone else posted that got a shit ton of upvotes The body of my post is factual

Teridax686 votes

I think part of the issue with discussions like these is that players who oppose the above statement tend to reason in terms of raw power: because AP champions in general are balanced to win rates around 50% on average, with okay play rates, their itemization must be fine, so goes the argument. The problem with this is that it focuses on the wrong parts: sure, AP champions have been balanced over time around their itemization, as is literally any other champion, but that still doesn't prevent the fact that AP options are far less diverse, interesting, and overall powerful than AD options.

In recent times, we've experienced many major reworks to certain classes, which also featured updates to their items. Marksmen and mages both received two item updates in the past few years, but then when we look at assassins and juggernauts, only one half got their itemization looked at. AD juggernauts got items like Sterak's Gage and Titanic Hydra, and AD assassins received Lethality, but AP juggernauts and assassins got squat. In fact, over time their options have worsened, as Rylai's, once a major component to AP juggernaut builds, got nerfed, whereas AP penetration outside of boots continues to be dampened by health, and railroaded into a single item purchase.

A common counter-argument to this is that AP and AD are designed differently, which is true, but the fact remains that there is a clear difference in the amount of attention given to AD and AP items. Moreover, what were once significant differences between AD and AP have blurred, even vanished over time: Zhonya's used to be the pinnacle of AP itemization, now any champion can access its effects with a 600 gold purchase. AP items in general were renowned for providing large amounts of utility, as opposed to AD items mostly just offering damage, now even items that seem almost purely oriented towards raw damage-dealers have some utility thrown in for good measure (e.g. Duskblade). Cooldown reduction, which once only mages and supports could access in meaningful amounts, is now available to all, to the point where it's no longer difficult to cap out, regardless of class. AP items used to grant major burst, but have been neutered over time, with AP champions turning towards DPS in the process, while AD options have been piling on increasing amounts of front-loaded, unavoidable burst via on-hit effects. On top of all this, even the rune system carries a bias, as there are no real defensive options against AD champions, and the one Keystone that could have helped out AP top laners was excluded from giving adaptive stats, under the pretense that some AP-scaling champions would abuse it. In the meantime, the Keystone is so heavily abused by all sorts of top laners that Riot is considering nerfing it. It really isn't a good state of affairs.

With all this said, it's worth mentioning again that there is a distinct difference between saying AP itemization is weaker than AD, and saying AP champions are weaker than AD. The latter is demonstrably false, but the former is evident. For sure, buffing and diversifying AP itemization would mean bringing appropriate nerfs to AP champions, but honestly, I think that would be preferrable to the current state of AP champions, where many of them have simply been given enough raw stats and numbers to be able to cope with an itemization system that doesn't adequately cater to them. Mages may probably have the best choices right now, but assassins and fighters should not need to pick from their same item pool, particularly since neither of the latter are reliant on mana, a stat that Riot just decided to make core to AP itemization for some reason.

ßluę3 votes

the effort...

LatetotheRace6 votes

"We want defensive options against duskblade. " And this is where rito checks out. Fuck us for wanting good assassin counterplay... I guess...

bbQsauçe3 votes

[deleted]

Sp33d Zer03 votes

The 15 armor they were stating was in response to the 150 damage shield. They were referencing the passives.

But they are also ignoring that 15 armor when you don't have a lot is super valuable.

bbQsauçe2 votes

[deleted]

SnugglePuggle946 votes

Ahem. Due to experience, I can say a mage will lose out way more going defensive first item than an AD. Top that with the awful mage mana nerfs, mages have been heavily crapped on to say the least.

Maybe their hatred is because they have experienced this crap- the high burst, low risk AD assassins get everything they ever want, while the AP side is always either nerfed hard, given half assed mini reworks and then forgotten about (Karma), and their itemization just torn up while AD gets all the good stuff.

The frustration is real because Riot is doing it, not because they are ignorant or just downvoting for whatever reason.

I've been here since season 4 and have watched what Riot has done ever since then. The frustration is there because Riot has done this to them, and it's not right. At all.

bbQsauçe1 votes

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SnugglePuggle942 votes

Sorry but 35 AP doesn't do squat if you can't farm and you have no mana to poke or farm either so mages have the short stick. I speak from experience as AD does not lose really anything going hexdrinker first as they can still all in at 6 and get away with it while we can't do squat.

bbQsauçe1 votes

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SnugglePuggle941 votes

Nope. I'm pretty good with my mana and no matter what mage I run, mana is always a huge problem.

Nope. Hexdrinker is far better.

Who Fed Ru2 votes

item 2419 item 3157

Here you have your counter to duskblade and every Assassin in general.

Love Anastasia28 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6zR4txQj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-08T21:09:39.890+0000)

item 2419 item 3157

Here you have your counter to duskblade and every Assassin in general.

Zhonyas CD 90 sec

Wukong W CD 5 sec?

Duskblade cd 1 sec

Who Fed Ru2 votes

ah there it is already

Love Anastasia11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6zR4txQj,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-08T21:12:52.193+0000)

ah there it is already

Except i'm not silver

Seems like you cant post with ur main acc tho

Who Fed Ru1 votes

well thing is I actually can't

Z3Sleeper5 votes

Nonsense, even permabanned accounts can post on the boards.

Unless there's something stopping other regions from posting here.

five oh tree 4 votes

You can be permabanned from the boards even if you're not banned in game.

Danjeng1 votes

Dontcha know? We're all actually Challenger players posting on our smurfs. Just like how the users of anime_irl is actually all anime girls (and definitely not a bunch of young white males).

koshkyra10 votes

Zhonyas cd is 120 sec

Shablagoo1 votes

item 3156 Wow this item has a cd too better hit those skill shots

Who Fed Ru1 votes

[deleted]

Succubús GF25 votes

I'm literally plat... and anybody can tell you that zhonyas alone does not make aps as viable ads item wise item 3156

  • think of all the mr items in the game that ads can build over aps think of how theres a keystone that literally absorbs damage from magic

Let me do some math for you seekers- maxed gives 15 armor for 1100 gold Hexdrinker-1300 absorbs 190 damage at level 6 Null orb is about 60 at lv 6 or so/

so at level 6- 250 Magic damage is absorbed. Let me explain that there are so many abilities that dont even go past that. Now let's head back to seekers 15 armor. 1 5 That negates so little damage it's a joke honestly.

Who Fed Ru2 votes

item 3191 maxed gives 45 armor

where do you get that 15 from? it's 30 + 15 and you basically hard counter Dirk with it.

CaptainAntiHeroz6 votes

You have to not get 1 shot while you're trying to stack it

My Waifu Vanilla4 votes

Heaven forbid you attempt to dodge a skillshot.

CaptainAntiHeroz7 votes

Heaven forbid Zeds R isn't a skill shot Talon r q isn't a skill shot Shaco q and autoing you one time for 600 damage plus dark harvest and igniting you, none of that's a skill shot Tryhardemere true damage isn't a skill shot Alpha strike isn't a skill shot

Hmm.... Do you need further clarification?

My Waifu Vanilla3 votes

Considering we are talking about seekers armguard and thus being maybe level 8 at the latest assuming you went Lost Chapter into Seekers I would REALLY like to see a clip of Shaco doing 600 damage.

wildfox999 votes

AP anti AD items: item 3157

AD anti AP items : item 3156 item 3139 item 3091 ( item 3111 don't that forget AD are not foced into building item 3020)

at this point remove everything but the QSS since it can counter 1 or 2 AP assassins and say it can be good against any assassin

Sp33d Zer01 votes

Because a champion looking to build AD is gonna buy a wits end.

It's solely used in AS builds.

wildfox993 votes

champions like KogMaw or Varus were getting this item + item 3155 against a fed AP when it was in meta

yea it's niche but it still exist

heroikc3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6zR4txQj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-08T21:09:39.890+0000)

item 2419 item 3157

Here you have your counter to duskblade and every Assassin in general.

One that gives a few mere seconds for a 90 second cooldown on one, and a one time use on the other with a "OH! I have to upgrade this immediately now!" feeling.

SnugglePuggle948 votes

It's a 120 second cooldown now.

Thanks to all the Zed mains crying about it, it got nerfed.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

heroikc1 votes

{quoted}

It's a 120 second cooldown now.

Thanks to all the Zed mains crying about it, it got nerfed.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Great, so Riot is being bullied by random minorities now, maintaining a lousy status quo. No point keeping this junk on my laptop.

Succubús GF11 votes

theyve been catering to ad mains for literally seasons.. what

Red Wreckage1 votes

cause e-grill noob mage mains just loves to cry about anything that can kill them in game

riot realized its not worth it to pay any attention to them and actually made good balancing decisions that'll effect the overall health of the game. <(^.^)> <3 xD

Succubús GF6 votes

oh wow! You got me! I'm just a lowly egirl that is not 1, but TWO tiers above you. I'm SUCH a noob for wanting an even and balanced playing field in the lane i main.

You sound like a dipshit. C e a s e

Red Wreckage1 votes

NA plat = EUW bronze. everyone knows this.

im victim of riot matchmaking. hehehehe. my Win rate is better than you scrubby e-grill. and KDA too

LAKIGR4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Wreckage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6zR4txQj,comment-id=00010004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-09T07:22:52.080+0000)

NA plat = EUW bronze. everyone knows this.

im victim of riot matchmaking. hehehehe. my Win rate is better than you scrubby e-grill. and KDA too

lol like your saying it like kda means anything. Your hard stuck silver 1 and you main master Yi. She’s a plat 5. And don’t try this bs of NA better than EUW. The skill gap between most of the big regions on solo q is minimal

SnugglePuggle945 votes

{quoted}

Great, so Riot is being bullied by random minorities now, maintaining a lousy status quo. No point keeping this junk on my laptop.

Uh....what? No. Riot has a bias against AP, and it's blatantly clear throughout League as a fact.

Red Wreckage2 votes

item 3027 item 3165 item 3151 item 3116 item 3152

look at all these items with AP and extremely useless stat, HP. OP AD champs got 100 items with AD and HP, like item 3071 which is also extra burstttttt!!!!

if u say item 3157 ur a stupid noob and salty AD main cause zhonya is useless gghehexD

remakoro3 votes

item 3053 item 3814 item 3748 item 3078 item 3022 - HP that you forgot

Now try to say some shit like - "OH TITANIC ISNT MHE MHE MHE ITS FOR TANKY SOMEONE SOMEONE"

Yea sure. Same with 3.5 out of 5 items you listed - they cant be used effectively or possibly even purchased on most mages. "BUT I WILL LOOOSE SO MUCH DMG BY PURCHASING FROZEN MALLET. NO ONE GONNA DO THAT"

Yea and you think mages dont lose anything by going for Zhonya?

TempName548461 votes

riddle me this, why is the highest win ratio champion in the game a mage if everyone sucks so much for mages?

Succubús GF4 votes

Source? Because i can name at least 4 of the lowest win rated mid laners are mages. You sound wrong..

remakoro8 votes

He means Aurelion Sol. That guy that cannot be played at all if you aint Dia+ He also completely ignores the fact that 8 out of top 10 champions with best winrates are AD and have from 2 to 6 times his playrate. 1 other is evelynn and i dont know the fuck she is supposed to be at this point. Is she ap? Hybrid?

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