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"Ekko is an assassin who scales in long term skirmishes"

Visigoth··90 votes·7,405 views

First thing that makes no sense. Assassin or Teamfighting. You get to pick ONE.

Some examples: Fizz Kill person GTFO w/ pole. Kassadin Rift in, wreck carry, Rift out. Khazix Jump in, make sure target is alone, delete their HP, hop the fuck out. MasterYi Pray to god you don't get CC'd, because the second you do, you're fucked. Rengar Jump on carry, kill them, probably die because you have such strong damage Riot gave you no escape. Even assassin's considered 'broken' by many people don't do well in teamfights. Zed and Leblanc sure can easily kill your carry and escape, but it's pretty unlikely that a non-fed as shit Zed or LeBlanc is going to kill multiple people.

Next thing we have is currently considered a huge issue with some assassins. The safety factor. Zed and LeBlanc are hated for it, Kha'Zix got gutted for about a month because of it. Kassadin has received a metric fuckton of changes because of his. Ekko has an "oops" button that costs no mana, heals, and does damage.

Mobility. "League of Legends isn't turning into an utter mobility fest." Yeah, let's give this guy a dash that can go through most walls, and then his next auto attack will blink to the target. Because fuck it.

Now what's the biggest thing that most assassins don't have, or have very little of? That's right, CC! Except Ekko! He gets a 2+ second AoE stun with a huge ass shield. He also gets a slow, which you will be forced to dodge all laning phase because it's pretty much a Nidalee spear that goes through targets but does slightly less damage.

Now quick, name a champion that should almost never lose lane, especially against a melee champion? That's, good ol' Renekton. Playing as Renekton, vs a first time Ekko, I barely won lane. Of course, he did get some ganks, but that's not the point. Nobody should have an easy time against Renekton. He is the epitome of fucking your lane phase up. Not Ekko's though, he just sits back, gets CS with Q, and as soon as you go in he throws down his slow/stun, dashes away, and then can always press his "oops" button if you try to tower dive him. The only times I was able to kill him (I didn't have ignite) was if I flash stunned or waited in a bush until he thought I backed.

Fuck this champion. Fuck this mobility creep. Next champion better have some sort of stupid ass anti mobility mechanic. Mobility creep is getting retarded. You'd think Riot would've stopped after dashing on every auto attack.

103 Comments

qetzel22 votes

Just... you know... the Q. If you dodge the return (which you should be able to do) t has a 0.2AP ratio... slightly weaker.

YOLO420SWAGSCOPE4 votes

So much this Also the stun is hard as fuck to land and you can't even use the shield to purposely block Karthus ult

Dragonface6 votes

So because a skill is hard to hit, it should do a shitload of damage?

Tell that to Darius and Veigar

Lee Sin doesn't hit hard because he's hard to play, he just hits hard because that's how he's SUPPOSED to be, but he has counter play. Ekko doesn't have an "almost everyone can do this" counter play. Dodge his AoE shield/stun, and you still have his hard upfront burst to deal with, dodge his disc thing, same thing. And his ult is incredibly overpowered. Creating an "Oops" button is stupid. At least Zilean's ult has a downside, in that even though it might heal a ton of damage, it doesn't matter much of the entire enemy team is standing on your body. Ekko's ult allows him to jump back a huge distance, and if anyone is trying to predict that and stand near that point, he'll hit you for 500 damage PLUS 130% of his AP. Where's the counterplay in that?

Counterplay only works if you can counterplay and still focus on farming. His shit is so wonky and difficult to avoid that you spend almost all of laning phase just trying not to get hit by his disc and by this shield/stun. Make the shield/stun balanced. Shield only applies if an enemy champion is standing in the circle, and the stun is slightly lowered, plus make it so you can see the circle 1 second in advance, instead of .5.

Next, his phase dive should just allow him to jump forward and immediately attack, not flash and then jump forward.

His ult shouldn't heal NEARLY as much, and the AoE on it should be much smaller. The damage is understandable if the AoE wasn't so large. The whole point is, he's slippery to catch, and you shouldn't be punished for attempting to predict him. If 3 people chase him and 2 of us stand back near his ult point, I shouldn't be bursted down for trying to predict it just because I was keeping myself within range of my abilities.

Dunkrius2g1 votes

Darius's Q only deals so much early to lv 16ish late game it means nothing. It has high damage early fora a reason and low damage late game.

For Carthage2 votes

{quoted} Creating an "Oops" button is stupid.

Zed Fizz JarvanIV Hecarim Katarina Kassadin Sejuani Tryndamere Shaco Vladimir Shyvana Leblanc JarvanIV Nidalee

Did someone say "Oops"?

Dragonface2 votes

Let me take a second to explain why all of these champions don't have an oops button.

Zed - His ult puts him dead center of your team, if you're fast enough, you can stun him and all of his damage is completely gone, as he can't add damage to his ult's burst damage.

Fizz - has to choose between gap closing to you, or saving it to escape.

J4? Seriously? You think he has an oops button? No one EVER saves their Flag jump for escaping.

Kat - Wait until she jumps into your team to ult, stun her, grats, even if she lives, she isn't escaping because she's on CD.

Kass - Have you seen the mana cost and CD on it? You can use USUALLY 3 Riftwalks before you're out of mana.

Sej - Soooo.....what ability is an oops button again?

Trynd - Everyone uses E to gap close. Everyone.

Shaco - Hit him twice and he dies, and he has to choose between using Q to catch up with someone or saving it to escape.

Vlad - His W deals little damage, and takes a massive chunk of his health away. I hardly consider that beneficial. Hit W, and lose a ton of health, just so you can live, at which point if you're almost dead, you gotta B anyway. Ekko doesn't.

Shyv - Again, what ability is an oops button?

LB - Has to choose between using her ult for damage or for an escape.

J4 - You really hate J4 don't you?

Nid - Hop is used to gap close, she can't burst people nearly as fast as most champs, hit her with a stun, and she's completely wrecked.

Now lets talk Ekko

He jumps in on your team, you stun him, nearly kill him, he spams ult, bam, back to where he was a few seconds ago with 60-80% of his health back, and 2-3 of your teammates wasted their ult. Where is the choice in his ult again? Your choice is this, burst them down with your kit and use your ult to escape, or burst them down with your kit and use your ult to burst everyone else down, at which point, he still can escape no problem.

70% slow on target with 70% buff to move speed on a PASSIVE????? Seriously??????????????????????????

Llanite1 votes

If Ekko survives the stun, he can R to get out. Fizz can E Zed can R Lb can reactivate her W Ahri should still have charges on her R Vlad can W

Every single assassin has a way to get out if they survive the CC. That's a fact.

And yes, Ekko gives up lots of dmg to have his ult as an escape. Q 280 +0.9 E 150 + 0.2 Passive 280 +0.7 Totally 720 + 1.8 which is lower than Ahri Q+W. If you dodge the return part of his Q, the entire combo goes down to 600 + 1.1.

Dragonface1 votes

Sigh. I guess you're not understanding me.

The ability to escape isn't the only problem, the damage, and the fact he's a healing assassin is.

For Carthage1 votes

Talon Zed

Both healing assassins. Just because they don't have it innately built in doesn't mean they don't benefit monstrously from lifesteal and Elixir of Wrath.

You're pointing out one simple thing on Ekko that honestly, if you'd take like 5 seconds to consider it, hardly offers up as much of a problem as you make it out to be. His trail is traceable, he's pretty easy to locate, he's fucked without his ult, and his entire kit relies on being able to either move or use his abilities. Stop letting him engage on you and charge his ass when he whiffs his W - his burst is only exceptional if he's ahead. Most assassins already in the game pack far more upfront power than he could dream of unless he actually manages to nail his ult on a squishy target, which there's not only a clone of him indicating where it'll land - it's marked by a big fuckin' red arrow saying, "HEY, HEY. THIS SPOT HERE? DON'T FUCKING STAND HERE." His W is otherwise the only major reason teamfights can be tipped decisively in his favor, and that takes 3 goddamn seconds to warm-up and drop in the designated area, and you get a .5 second warning on it as well, which is more of a warning than most champs give you other than, "Hey my high CC high damage ult's up k you're dead now bai nao~."

Dragonface1 votes

Say it now, but everyone here knows he'll be nerfed next patch. Simply put, no assassin should be able to instantly heal 60% of their health, and again, you're missing my point, it's not a matter of JUST his ult hurting a ton, it's a point of the counterplay for it is almost non-existent. You need to eat a massive chunk of damage in order to predict it and chase him. His W gives you .5 seconds to react. Do you know how little of time that is when you have 9 people fighting in a small area and all these other spell particles are going off? You're lucky to see it at all.

You can fight and say all you want that Ekko doesn't need a nerf, but the majority of the community agrees (Even some top players) and he IS going to get nerfed, as even members of Riot have said they feel he's got too much safety and not enough risk.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Say it now, but everyone here knows he'll be nerfed next patch. Simply put, no assassin should be able to instantly heal 60% of their health, and again, you're missing my point, it's not a matter of JUST his ult hurting a ton, it's a point of the counterplay for it is almost non-existent. You need to eat a massive chunk of damage in order to predict it and chase him. His W gives you .5 seconds to react. Do you know how little of time that is when you have 9 people fighting in a small area and all these other spell particles are going off? You're lucky to see it at all.

You can fight and say all you want that Ekko doesn't need a nerf, but the majority of the community agrees (Even some top players) and he IS going to get nerfed, as even members of Riot have said they feel he's got too much safety and not enough risk.

Except his damage is so low that he can't assassinate anything. I mean, unless you have downs syndrome and stand on his ghost. But Riot doesn't balance around players with downs syndrome.

Dragonface1 votes

Gr8 b8 m8 8/8

Not gonna answer you if you can't be civil

ayNigerianPrince2 votes

{quoted}

If Ekko survives the stun, he can R to get out. Fizz can E Zed can R Lb can reactivate her W Ahri should still have charges on her R Vlad can W

Every single assassin has a way to get out if they survive the CC. That's a fact.

And yes, Ekko gives up lots of dmg to have his ult as an escape. Q 280 +0.9 E 150 + 0.2 Passive 280 +0.7 Totally 720 + 1.8 which is lower than Ahri Q+W. If you dodge the return part of his Q, the entire combo goes down to 600 + 1.1.

Talon Katarina

I guess Kat does kinda have an escape, but it requires good positioning of teammates, enemies, or wards, so I don't feel like it counts. Talon has a similar one but much less reliable as it only works on enemies. His ult has a speed boost/stealth but unlikely he will successfully escape. Sure they have plenty of AoE, but your "fact" that every single assassin has an escape is not nessisarily true.

Dragonface2 votes

^^^This

Llanite2 votes

4-hit charge is hardly 'upfront' burst.

His Q has 0.2 if you dodge the return part, even if you got hit, the total dmg is 280 +0.9 which is just slightly higher than Annie's.

And yes, if something is harder to hit, it should hit for more, risk/reward tradeoff? And his Q is nowhere near Ahri/Xerath/Zigg level which are harder to dodge AND hits harder.

Narasimha16 votes

Now quick, name a champion that should almost never lose lane, especially against a melee champion?

The Renekton bar has been dead and broken for a long time. Try Yorick. And if you actually lose with Yorick, then its not Ekko, its you.

3TWarrior1 votes

lol, even tanky yorick gets deleted in this meta and ekko is so mobile while relying on auto attacks that the ghouls are just free farm

you could always try urgot top or middle against him, but most people fUrgot that he is a long term fight champion and a chaser whereas most champs end a fight in a few seconds

ElJanitorFrank5 votes

Uh, no. Go look up Yorick real quick, you don't seem to know how he works.

Creamy Seaman13 votes

You're a fucking liar, I was ekko vs you renekton you got 10 fucking ganks and most of them were successful you could tower dive me with nautilus and i couldn't do shit because my ghost was in the tower and my stun takes 2 years to proc. You're just salty that you got fucked over every 1v1 cuz you dived my minions like a dumbshit.

StealWolverine3 votes

you have no idea what you are talking about. just because you played against a renekton as ekko doesnt make it the op.

Creamy Seaman1 votes

ekko is op, but he is lying about "a few ganks" he got 100 fucking ganks and i died on most of the. but i still got 11 kills on him.

Paprax3 votes

Lol I checked your match history and you only had one Ekko game (as of when I checked) and there wasn't a Renekton in the game at all.

StealWolverine1 votes

na opgg shows he has one. 2 days ago 41m match

Dragonface1 votes

That English though haha.

StealWolverine1 votes

Thats what happens when you post at 3am in the dark without a backlit keyboard i guess.

StealWolverine3 votes

i meant original poster when i said op. you played against a different renekton. not the guy who made this thread,

DrNova9 votes

Ren has some sort of counter and its a bad thing?

There are plenty of ways to deal with Ekko, his stun takes 3 seconds to pop, requiring you to be right where he cast it 3 seconds later.

He has to either whittle you down or get multiple combo's to kill you, he cant 100-0 anyone without being way ahead.

Learn to deal with him instead of just complaiing because the new champ is unfamiliar.

Dragonface2 votes

Excuse me, but are you still playing League of Legends?

No champion can 100-0 anyone unless they're way ahead, but come on. I've seen Zed with 2 kills who struggles to 100-0 some people who aren't all that tanky. Ekko, this isn't the case, he can have ONE kill because of a small mistake you made, gets a little AP, and suddenly you're trying your best to just stay under turret and not get hit by all his shit.

3 seconds to pop an ability that you can't see where it's going, so chances are you're gonna have to change directions, in doing so, he simply gets closer to you, then pops phase dive, and grats he's STILL on you.

But wait, you somehow are 1v1ing him without any serious issue, OOOOO HE'S ALMOST DEAD! ANNNND....."OOPS!" suddenly he's back at 50% health and he just did huge damage to you with his ult.

Add to it, the INSANE shield he gets, 690 shield at level 5 with 490 AP, you essentially just took this "Fragile assassin" and made him beefy enough to live against almost anyone in a 1v1 fight.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE

Max out your CDR and suddenly you can 1v1 people, assassinate targets, AND team fight!

The only thing they didn't add in that could have made him more OP is ability resets on kill.

If you HONESTLY believe that Ekko is in no way shape or form OP, then you are probably one of the people who play him and don't wanna see him get nerfed.

jDVL20eCYs1 votes

ekkos burst is low unless he hit ult you should me much more afraid of fiora, diana, fizz all in tower dives. and if ekko miss his q on they way back he dose no damage since he will not be able to proc the passive. i can beat him with. karma and diana. i actually not lost a game against ekko yet

KazaLyn Shao8 votes

Next champion, has a free Q, low mana cost E, low mana cost W, R returns mana, has 2 shields, 2 heals, a stun, a slow, a knock-up, and a cleanse, can leap walls, and base movespeed of 360. We'll call him, "Balance", the boy who shattered logic.

Matezoide7 votes

Muh big playz

Muh skill-cap

LankPants7 votes

I'm not so convinced about Yi even being an Assassin.

His burst isn't comparible to actual assassins and he can out DPS every assassin in the game (unless they're Kat)

Yi's a Melee ADC, in the same way as Yas and Tryn.

Rinky Dinky5 votes

I like how you left out katarina and talon.

Because they ruin your entire argument

Z462 votes

I have to agree.

Talon has massive teamfight influence with great AoE on top of his ungodly ability to decide that one person in particular just doesn't get to play League that day. Armor can't save you from a Last Whisper + Rake and Shadow Assault, and he sure as hell isn't letting your carry get out alive without some actual focus.

Ekko is a lot closer to Talon than he is to other AP assassins like LeBlanc and Katarina, and that's not a bad thing, because he's just as susceptible to CC, and can be very easily forced to use his ult to escape a bad situation instead of nuking his target. They're having a problem taking advantage of that, but I feel like they just need to get used to playing against him.

Stiv12341 votes

Dont forget Talon has a crappy Early, cant trade before lvl 4 at all and has no escape if he wants to actually kill his enemy. Oh, and also note that Talons passive is a little bit weaker than Ekkos.

Z461 votes

Ekko's pre-6 is extremely abusable, his trading requires he either run out of mana trying to spam Q or get in melee range for his passive (and his Timewinder is a much slower spell than Talon's Rake, meaning it's even easier to avoid), and Ekko's only reliable escape is also his AoE nuke. Just like Talon, it's also very easy to force Ekko to use Timewinder to waveclear pre-6 without taking any harass from it.

I won't argue that Talon's passive is stronger than Ekko's—it isn't, because Ekko's passive has great base damage and insane scaling for a 3-hit mechanic that procs on both autoattacks and every hit from his abilities. (Maybe if Timewinder could only proc one stack, like Gnar's boomerang, it would be more reasonable, even if the damage didn't change. The simple requirement of needing to not only Phase Dive in, but to get off a second basic attack to take advantage of his passive, could be massive.)

However, Ekko and Talon share quite a lot of their weaknesses and strengths, much more than any other assassins do.

Stiv12341 votes

90 % of the Ekkos I've seen wait until they hit first part of Timewinder, then jump in as early as lvl 2, and then run away with the passive while having half-lifed the enemy. Once he gets his W, it's almost impossible to outtrade him if he's any good. Not to mention Talon's W is almost negligible in terms of damage before Rank 2-3.

Also, Ekko can easily kill enemies without his ult with only a Sheen, as he can stick to target way easier than Talon, who needs at least Tiamat or Brutalizer and both parts of his ult.

Drukyul3 votes

Until they have a long-duration AOE CC and a shield and a heal, they don't compare.

A Drowned Fish1 votes

Well which of the other champs he compares them to have one?

Drukyul1 votes

That's the point.

Red Frostraven4 votes

Kassadin Riftlimp Katarina Teleport Kassadin Riftlimp Katarina Whirls "Triple kill!" Kassadin "Save some for me, I'll get over to you soon!!! Riftlimp Katarina Whirls again "Quadrakill!" Kassadin "Eh. I'm out of mana. Just take them all." Katarina Teleport Whirl Throw "Pentakill!"

3TWarrior1 votes

this...kass can't do any damage even if the whole enemy team is stupid enough to be in range of his E and R

I came up with a concept that he might do better as a tanky mage, but I haven' twanted to try it because there's no point if you have to build counter-intuitively to a champion's design just to have SOME sort of impact

Pæan3 votes

Elise knows that feel.

BluePolarizer3 votes

Champs like Yi, Ekko, Riven, and Kassadin aren't really assassins OR teamfighters.

They're skirmishers/light fighters. They excel in small fights: 1v1s up to 3v3s, away from lanes and in the jungle. They aren't that good in lane sieges or in big 5v5 brawls at baron until they get fed.

Zone of Endless3 votes

Next champ by Riot is gonna be a tank-damage dealer-healer-with 2 flash and 3 dash and a touch of speed boost and an AoE stun

Dragonface1 votes

Don't forget about being able to reset on kill and assist.

NemeBro2 votes

Yeah, he's pretty lame.

Played against him as Darius. I could only barely win a war of 100-0'ing him in the early game. After that, I never killed him one on one. I came close, but he'd lol!ult away and end up healed, and could face tank my ult with his shield (and it's not hard to pop your shield against an opponent that can't 100-0 you, and somehow Darius can't).

I very nearly died to him in laning phase early on when I pulled him under my turret (because your enemy should easily win trades when under your turret), and I was playing with my tanky masteries as opposed to my usual 21/9/0 masteries.

Yenn8 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, he's pretty lame.

Played against him as Darius. I could only barely win a war of 100-0'ing him in the early game. After that, I never came close to killing him one on one. I came close, but he'd lol!ult away and end up healed, and could face tank my ult with his shield (and it's not hard to pop your shield against an opponent that can't 100-0 you, and somehow Darius can't).

I very nearly died to him in laning phase early on when I pulled him under my turret (because your enemy should easily win trades when under your turret), and I was playing with my tanky masteries as opposed to my usual 21/9/0 masteries.

How is he getting his shield? If he drops it, move away. You have three full seconds. Is that not enough for you?

MohawkBird13 votes

It'd not necessarily three full seconds to move out of the way. You can see the Ekko cast it, but the actually circle doesn't show for until you only have .5 seconds to get out of it. Regardless, the predictability should be easy enough to escape it unless you are tunneled on him, but the fact you are saying you have 3 full seconds to move out of the circle is wrong.

SoMNia6 votes

He gets the shield as long as HE is inside the area, even if nobody else is there. You also don't necessarily know WHERE he aimed it until half a second before it lands.

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