I love how there's only a handful of viable champs per role.

Onotori··2 votes·452 views

If you want to play anything else in ranked, you may as well be banned for trolling, since you literally cannot compete with the handful of champs Riot decides is allowed to be strong. And since I know people will argue it, how many champs literally never see pro play? There might just be a reason for that!

But don't worry, when a champ that's been broken for years is still broken, that's how you know Riot puts quality first.

16 Comments

DrLuau4 votes

Dawg, everything is viable until well into diamond. There are Garen OTPs in challenger, for pete's sake.

Onotori1 votes

Now if only that was true.

Some champs are just objectively better though, so that's not how things work.

(And Garen isn't weak by any means, so.)

DrLuau2 votes

{quoted}

Now if only that was true.

Some champs are just objectively better though, so that's not how things work.

(And Garen isn't weak by any means, so.)

If you're Lead 4, maybe. Garen is abysmal and easily countered with even basic knowledge of lane dynamics.

Jamaree4 votes

Until high Diamond, everything is viable.

Side note, literally every champion in this game has seen pro play at sometime or another at this point except Kai'sa.

Onotori3 votes

The meta rotates, but there's still a very restrictive meta, which is not indicative of balance in any way. When ~40 champs per year are the only ones that even see the light of day... there's an issue.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

Now if only that was true.

Some champs are just objectively better though, so that's not how things work.

(And Garen isn't weak by any means, so.)

It is true, he is right, SirchEz play Garen and Singed at a master/challenger level, some champions are objectively better, but that doesn't change the fact that you can one trick anything to Diamond if you are willing to put in the work and effort.

{quoted}

The meta rotates, but there's still a very restrictive meta, which is not indicative of balance in any way. When ~40 champs per year are the only ones that even see the light of day... there's an issue.

Indeed, there is, but if you buff the 40 worst, they will be the new 40, and vice versa for nerfing the top 40. It is impossible to get every champion on equal playing fields, no game ever has done that period, power creep, kits, etc, you can try to make everyone balanced but some are still going to rise to the top.

Onotori1 votes

{quoted}

but that doesn't change the fact that you can one trick anything to Diamond if you are willing to put in the work and effort.

Why bother though if you can put in a fraction of the effort and get a much higher payout?

Indeed, there is, but if you buff the 40 worst, they will be the new 40, and vice versa for nerfing the top 40. It is impossible to get every champion on equal playing fields, no game ever has done that period, power creep, kits, etc, you can try to make everyone balanced but some are still going to rise to the top.

MMOs do it pretty well, and League borrows heavily from their mechanics. If they can do it, no reason League can't. Thing is, they just don't want to. Skins will make a lot more money if there are FOTM champs.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

Why bother though if you can put in a fraction of the effort and get a much higher payout?

Enjoyment, didn't say it was optimal, just said it was possible, meta literally means nothing until the top like .1%.

MMOs do it pretty well, and League borrows heavily from their mechanics. If they can do it, no reason League can't.

Is that why the forums of said MMOs are filled to the brim with QQ about balance just like it is here?

Thing is, they just don't want to. Skins will make a lot more money if there are FOTM champs.

It isn't possible.

Onotori1 votes

{quoted}

Enjoyment, didn't say it was optimal, just said it was possible, meta literally means nothing until the top like .1%.

Okay, you know how many times people say to me that enjoyment is irrelevant in ranked?

Is that why the forums of said MMOs are filled to the brim with QQ about balance just like it is here?

Yet, despite all that complaining, nearly every class and variation of comp is viable in high tier play.

It isn't possible.

It is, if you care beyond money. A balanced game is stagnant and not profitable in an F2P model though, so eh.

Jamaree3 votes

{quoted}

Okay, you know how many times people say to me that enjoyment is irrelevant in ranked?

It isn't relevant for most, but a lot of people don't enjoy just picking meta, hell, first time I got to Diamond, I got there with three low to mid tier picks, you will go farther with things you enjoy and play well rather then what is meta at the time.

Yet, despite all that complaining, nearly every class and variation of comp is viable in high tier play.

In what world and what game?

It is, if you care beyond money. A balanced game is stagnant and not profitable in an F2P model though, so eh.

No, it really isn't possible.

Superspick3 votes

You're criminally short sighted.

  1. In a video game, enjoyment is the prime directive for everyone who is not depending on this for their livelihood. You're conflating two separate points. Enjoyment is all that matters, the people who say it doesn't are really saying winning is enjoyment for them, therefore they don't enjoy losing. Think.

  2. FFXIV, WoW, Rift and Guild Wars 1 and 2 are my MMO experience and ALL of them are LITTERED TO THE BRIM with bitching about CDs, PVP kits, Class is fucking busted in PVP pls nerf, when will Mages be good again, etc. I could go on for pages. There is ALWAYS an optimal 3s comp, RBGs comp, whatever. Always. Elitist Jerks and other sites for WoW exist exactly because of this. LoL is the same. More often than not, you wind up with several dominating combinations and the rest all are middling and always inferior. They CAN win, just like Soraka top can win in high Diamond, but usually doesn't bc it's infinitely suboptimal.

  3. I agree their main driving factor is money, but actually a game that fluctuates SO wildly like LoL sometimes does induces fatigue in the player and that's worse for longevity than stagnation. To the main point, the game is entirely too big for them to balance perfectly now. Period. There are too many variables that interact, and one of them is their playerbase's skill, which is the most volatile variable of all. It is IMPOSSIBLE to balance a game for both the lowest and the highest denominators unless the gameplay is braindead simple and one dimensional.

Hint, LoL is not braindead simple.

poro children 1 votes
Jamaree1 votes

[{quoted}](name=poro children ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6up1Pa2Z,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-04-03T12:03:10.913+0000)

Bang player her. https://youtu.be/tQWrxzKV6Ro

And with that, thing is gone as well.

Superspick1 votes

My dude, SKT Bang picked Kai'Sa! I don't remember when, but if i recall, he ripped the enemy team a new one.

EDIT: 3-4 days ago vs KSV. DD Kai'sa w Crit after. Outdamaged by Cait, but Cait is bullshit in organized play and needs to be fukin permabanned.

ModCaliCoastReplay2 votes

Oh, please.Aatrox Camille Chogath Darius DrMundo Ekko Fiora Galio Gangplank Garen Gnar Heimerdinger Illaoi Irelia Janna Jayce Kassadin Kayle Kennen Kled Malphite Maokai Nasus Ornn Pantheon Quinn Renekton Riven Rumble Singed Sion Swain TahmKench Trundle Tryndamere Urgot Vladimir Yasuo Yorick are all champions I consider viable in toplane solo queue right now. That's like 80% of the champs ever to play the role.

The pool drops in high ranking group queue or LCS or whatever because champs that enable or disable escapes tend to be highly prioritized, due to the extreme skill at both ganks and escapes that are seen in top level organized play. But we're talking real nosebleed level stuff. Only at really serious high levels do you see Camille JarvanIV Thresh Ryze TahmKench TaliyahTaric Skarner and the like need to be pick-or-bans - champs who have either a lockdown or a get-out-of-death-free card have been what pro play has evolved towards. We can talk about that all day, but that strikes me as more telling about the nature of high-level play itself than any effort on Riot to encourage skin sales on those champs, most are old as dirt. None of those eight I mentioned that see constant LCS play over and over again are Riot's flavor of the month, they get it because their kits have either a serious lockdown or a serious save, and that's just part of high level play and that meta at the moment.

I feel like the champion pool for LCS is actually starting to open up this year. The first few months were terribad but it's getting a lot better.

Zullar1 votes

Riot balance team has their priorities backwards and they seem to balance around pro play and ignore the players. i.e. Ryze 45% was win rate on 8.4... better nerf his E, nerf his R, nerf his Seraphs, nerf his Abyssal mask. There now 43% on 8.6. Meanwhile Warwick or Janna that are like 55% are left untouched (Pro's don't use Warwick so no need to nerf right!?).

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