Elise "changes" in PBE

CatSith··23 votes·3,969 views
3/17 PBE Update

** Elise Movement Speed (Spider form) increased to 355 from 345 Movement Speed (Human form) reduced to 325 from 335 Cocoon (Human E) missle speed increased to 1600 from 1450**

Because her human form wasn't slow already >...>

**Edit **- Sure 355 is great for her spider form, But i don't understand why her human form has to become even slower?

**Edit 2 **- "Please Riot. Her damage is fine, her clear is alright, and her new movespeed will help her, but the increased speed on her Cocoon doesn't mean a whole lot when it's width is the size of a pencil. Increase the width and let her have reliable ganks again."

Her damage isnt fine. Half her damage base is required to be in melee range. and if you need damage on her she has to be squishy. With the new items and changes to the game plus her past damage nerfs. all tanks have to do is build resistance and Hp to render her useless. She use to be able to trade against tanks but now not so much.

**Edit 3 **- "It's almost as if this is the point of building resistances: to reduce the damage dealt by your opponents.

I'm all for Elise buffs in principle, but last time Elise was good she was just another generalist champion who kept numerous other junglers out of the meta through her mere presence. She's very much like Lee Sin and J4 in that her kit has no obvious holes or weaknesses in it; therefore, she's unbalanced whenever she has any actual strengths. Basically, as long as Elise keeps her potential to do everything in one kit, she has to have worse damage than damage junglers, worse CC than ganking junglers, worse sustain than dedicated sustain junglers, and worse bulk than dedicated tank junglers, or she's broken. Unfortunately, that means that her being "underpowered" is actually her most desirable state; you can first pick her into any team comp because she does everything, but picking a champion who better synergizes with your team comp will always be the better decision.

This change on PBE is a good first step to giving Elise some kind of tradeoff. Once Elise has real tradeoffs, she can be given real strengths."

So other mages are allowed to kill tanks but not elise?

YES mr and hp is to the point to build vs mages, but elise cant trade as well as other mages vs tanks. you know why? Half her damage is in YES Melee form. Idk why you are talking about her pushing others out of the jungle because that is old news. the new jungle isnt wanted for her and she doesnt have obvious weakness and holes? Lmao are you serious? She is a range AND a melee mage. she has 1 stun that is only 1 second at level 1 she has 2 mobility skills. One of them has a cd of 26/23/20/17/14 and not to top it off it has to land on an enemy unit. So dont group her with j4 and leesin because she isnt unbalanced as you try to make her. Her being underpowered Shouldnt be a desirable state anymore! you wonder why? Because Things change and it did change. She was OP before and needed nerfs because of the past meta, but now? with all the itemization, new champions and "meta" change. She is under powered and she does deserve more than just Movement speed changes.

49 Comments

Dreadlocks19 votes

The fact that they are even looking at Elise makes me happy. At least theyre buffing the Stun speed. (now just put the width back to what it was)

CatSith6 votes

{quoted}

The fact that they are even looking at Elise makes me happy. At least theyre buffing the Stun speed. (now just put the width back to what it was)

yeah

Keevalroy5 votes

(now just put the width back to what it was)

Please Riot. Her damage is fine, her clear is alright, and her new movespeed will help her, but the increased speed on her Cocoon doesn't mean a whole lot when it's width is the size of a pencil. Increase the width and let her have reliable ganks again.

CatSith6 votes

{quoted}

Please Riot. Her damage is fine, her clear is alright, and her new movespeed will help her, but the increased speed on her Cocoon doesn't mean a whole lot when it's width is the size of a pencil. Increase the width and let her have reliable ganks again.

Her damage isnt fine. Half her damage base is required to be in melee range. and if you need damage on her she has to be squishy. With the new items and changes to the game plus her past damage nerfs. all tanks have to do is build resistance and Hp to render her useless. She use to be able to trade against tanks but now not so much.

Keevalroy3 votes

As far as being balanced goes, it's fine. I agree that it's low, but do we really want her nerfed again because she does too much? I want Elise to see play too, I want my favorite jungler back, but asking for too much too soon is a bad idea.

CatSith3 votes

{quoted}

As far as being balanced goes, it's fine. I agree that it's low, but do we really want her nerfed again because she does too much? I want Elise to see play too, I want my favorite jungler back, but asking for too much too soon is a bad idea.

It is not balanced. And it is not "too soon"

mi ramfan2 votes

{quoted}

Her damage isnt fine. Half her damage base is required to be in melee range. and if you need damage on her she has to be squishy. With the new items and changes to the game plus her past damage nerfs. all tanks have to do is build resistance and Hp to render her useless. She use to be able to trade against tanks but now not so much.

It's almost as if this is the point of building resistances: to reduce the damage dealt by your opponents.

I'm all for Elise buffs in principle, but last time Elise was good she was just another generalist champion who kept numerous other junglers out of the meta through her mere presence. She's very much like Lee Sin and J4 in that her kit has no obvious holes or weaknesses in it; therefore, she's unbalanced whenever she has any actual strengths. Basically, as long as Elise keeps her potential to do everything in one kit, she has to have worse damage than damage junglers, worse CC than ganking junglers, worse sustain than dedicated sustain junglers, and worse bulk than dedicated tank junglers, or she's broken. Unfortunately, that means that her being "underpowered" is actually her most desirable state; you can first pick her into any team comp because she does everything, but picking a champion who better synergizes with your team comp will always be the better decision.

This change on PBE is a good first step to giving Elise some kind of tradeoff. Once Elise has real tradeoffs, she can be given real strengths.

CatSith1 votes

[{quoted}](name=mi ramfan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6gFfZBr7,comment-id=0002000100000001,timestamp=2015-03-18T15:01:48.916+0000)

It's almost as if this is the point of building resistances: to reduce the damage dealt by your opponents.

I'm all for Elise buffs in principle, but last time Elise was good she was just another generalist champion who kept numerous other junglers out of the meta through her mere presence. She's very much like Lee Sin and J4 in that her kit has no obvious holes or weaknesses in it; therefore, she's unbalanced whenever she has any actual strengths. Basically, as long as Elise keeps her potential to do everything in one kit, she has to have worse damage than damage junglers, worse CC than ganking junglers, worse sustain than dedicated sustain junglers, and worse bulk than dedicated tank junglers, or she's broken. Unfortunately, that means that her being "underpowered" is actually her most desirable state; you can first pick her into any team comp because she does everything, but picking a champion who better synergizes with your team comp will always be the better decision.

This change on PBE is a good first step to giving Elise some kind of tradeoff. Once Elise has real tradeoffs, she can be given real strengths.

So other mages are allowed to kill tanks but not elise?

YES mr and hp is to the point to build vs mages, but elise cant trade as well as other mages vs tanks. you know why? Half her damage is in YES Melee form. Idk why you are talking about her pushing others out of the jungle because that is old news. the new jungle isnt wanted for her and she doesnt have obvious weakness and holes? Lmao are you serious? She is a range AND a melee mage. she has 1 stun that is only 1 second at level 1 she has 2 mobility skills. One of them has a cd of 26/23/20/17/14 and not to top it off it has to land on an enemy unit. So dont group her with j4 and leesin because she isnt unbalanced as you try to make her. Her being underpowered Shouldnt be a desirable state anymore! you wonder why? Because Things change and it did change. She was OP before and needed nerfs because of the past meta, but now? with all the itemization, new champions and "meta" change. She is under powered and she does deserve more than just Movement speed changes.

junglerboy163 votes

Skinny stuns mean I can shoot it between minions better though!

Hupsis11 votes

So instead of a 10 movement speed difference between her forms she has 30 difference. That actually makes the speed difference noticable which is good.

Saianna9 votes

Now it's time for Rito to notice that Elise deals close to no damage.

DragoonRuin6 votes

Elise isn't in a terribly bad spot atm. She's not incredibly weak, but she's not overpoweringly obnoxious. She still does really good damage to squishies and tanks alike with her %health dmg's, and she's got stuns and her Repel thingy to help engage/escape.

There are other toons that need much more love/attention than elise. I.E. Yorick, Miss Fortune, Alistar, Morde(again), Poppy, Rammus, Shyvana, etc, etc.

CatSith2 votes

{quoted}

Elise isn't in a terribly bad spot atm. She's not incredibly weak, but she's not overpoweringly obnoxious. She still does really good damage to squishies and tanks alike with her %health dmg's, and she's got stuns and her Repel thingy to help engage/escape.

There are other toons that need much more love/attention than elise. I.E. Yorick, Miss Fortune, Alistar, Morde(again), Poppy, Rammus, Shyvana, etc, etc.

um no >.>

DragoonRuin7 votes

{quoted}

um no >.>

No basis, no points of contention, no discussion. That right there invalidates any thing you might think. Make an argument for it, or don't say anything at all.

um yes >.>

CatSith4 votes

{quoted}

No basis, no points of contention, no discussion. That right there invalidates any thing you might think. Make an argument for it, or don't say anything at all.

um yes >.>

Its stating that i do not agree with your thoughts on elise and your "she isnt in a bad spot" comment.

Sightless661 votes

Knowing that you don't agree doesn't really mean anything to anyone. Knowing why you don't agree is much more useful.

SmokingPuffin8 votes

Elise is the 2nd lowest win rate and 3rd least popular champ in the game.

The only other champions in that tier of suckiness are either recently reworked kits or kits up for rework.

medium katarina1 votes

{quoted}

Elise is the 2nd lowest win rate and 3rd least popular champ in the game.

The only other champions in that tier of suckiness are either recently reworked kits or kits up for rework.

her kit is pure cancer and needs a rework (or at least for the % hp not to scale so they don't keep gutting her whenever she's decent) (✿◡‿◡)

I also really dislike making human form so slow but w/e

Abyssphere4 votes

{quoted}

Elise isn't in a terribly bad spot atm. She's not incredibly weak, but she's not overpoweringly obnoxious. She still does really good damage to squishies and tanks alike with her %health dmg's, and she's got stuns and her Repel thingy to help engage/escape.

There are other toons that need much more love/attention than elise. I.E. Yorick, Miss Fortune, Alistar, Morde(again), Poppy, Rammus, Shyvana, etc, etc.

Elise literally has the second worst win rate in the game, despite being one of the least played. No way does she need less attention than "vaguely undertuned" Miss Fortune or Shyvana. Rammus has buffs on the PBE and the necessary Poppy and Yorick reworks have nothing to do with the balance team.

Your post makes no sense. If Elise isn't "top of the queue" for help she is certainly very close to it.

DanLikesBacon2 votes

very necessary use of the word literally btw.

CatSith1 votes

{quoted}

very necessary use of the word literally btw.

?

DanLikesBacon1 votes

you literally did not need to say literally since winrates fluctuate and she is 3rd lowest winrate not "literally 3rd lowest".

Puaru11 votes

Third worst win rate in the game. Picked less then 1% of games. Not a bad spot.

Ok chief.

FunkyyCat1 votes

Fucking boards man, go look as Sejuani threads and every other comments is about "win rate doesn't mean everything". Looks like it's suddenly convenient (and just a tad bit hypocritical) isn't it?

Lost In Time1 votes

{quoted}

Elise isn't in a terribly bad spot atm. She's not incredibly weak, but she's not overpoweringly obnoxious. She still does really good damage to squishies and tanks alike with her %health dmg's, and she's got stuns and her Repel thingy to help engage/escape.

There are other toons that need much more love/attention than elise. I.E. Yorick, Miss Fortune, Alistar, Morde(again), Poppy, Rammus, Shyvana, etc, etc.

Dunno why you're getting downvoted - oh wait, I do - sheeple.

I've been playing her some lately and she sustains the jungle (before the damage nerfs) extremely well. Never had to back even at level 6, meaning earlier ganks than the opposing jungler.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Dunno why you're getting downvoted - oh wait, I do - sheeple.

I've been playing her some lately and she sustains the jungle (before the damage nerfs) extremely well. Never had to back even at level 6, meaning earlier ganks than the opposing jungler.

He's getting downvoted because people want a champion they love to be playable and he is a person with no investment in her (and probably very limited knowledge of the champion) coming in to say "Na you're wrong, she's fine" when he likely has infinitely less experience with her than the majority of the people in this thread. He hasn't given any actual reason that she's fine outside of listing some qualities she has which you can do for literally anyone. Urgot has spammy damage, a shield, and a suppression. Totally amazing, he doesn't need work at all. But wait.

And then you get to listing a bunch of champions who are either slated for reworks (which means them getting changes puts no time constraint on Elise getting changes) or actually not that bad (Miss Fortune, Shyvana) or already getting buffs (Rammus). It's a pointless list, the only champs he listed that could actually do with balance changes right now are Alistar (no idea why he has been left in his state) and Morde. And Elise is just as much in need of help as either of those.

It is OK to think Elise is fine. I disagree with you because I think you need more than a strong clear (which she admittedly has, it's amazing) to be a good champion. But I won't downvote you because I disagree with you. However, his justification for Elise being fine is terrible and his justification for there being no time to look at her is even worse. Poor arguments deserve downvotes, that's what the system is for.

FunkyyCat1 votes

He's getting downvoted because people want a champion they love to be playable and he is a person with no investment in her (and probably very limited knowledge of the champion) coming in to say "Na you're wrong, she's fine" when he likely has infinitely less experience with her than the majority of the people in this thread.

What if i told you people on the boards are not experts at the game and just realllly love complaining about every single thing that is closely related to Riot and LoL?

Tourian4 votes

At least riot is "trying" to buff her...

Wheatloaf3 votes

Elise "changes" in PBE...

Well, yes, yes they are changes...

CatSith1 votes

{quoted}

Elise "changes" in PBE...

Well, yes, yes they are changes...

Thanks for such an insightful response.

Wheatloaf2 votes

There are already plenty of people actually meaningfully and civilly discussing everything above; someone had to take up the Asshole Torch, and I figured today was probably my turn.

If you want some actual content, well, I don't really play Elise, but I believe a large part of her problem is (similarly to Jayce) her kit is more like 6 abilities without an Ultimate than it is a form-swap kit. Let's see what Riot's got planned for her. Today's changes are probably another attempt at "tiding over" a champion scheduled for kit work, so don't expect much in the way of straight buffs.

OhOkYea1 votes

nerf elise she doesnt' need a stun OP as fuck.

Dreadlocks2 votes

She already has a stun.. loool

EvilRabbitt1 votes

Thank god! A pair of buffs!

Linna Excel1 votes

Her human form is sort of her weaker half IMO. I don't know why riot is nerfing it.

They almost need to split her into a human champ with one model, a spider champ with the other, and give them both proper ults.

Raxicor1 votes

gaaaaasp

mvargus1 votes

{quoted}

** Elise Movement Speed (Spider form) increased to 355 from 345 Movement Speed (Human form) reduced to 325 from 335 Cocoon (Human E) missle speed increased to 1600 from 1450**

Because her human form wasn't slow already >...>

335 isn't all that slow. All this does is encourage the player to use spider form when moving around and returning to human form to poke.

Overall its a nice change I think. Puts her speed into one form so that boots will enhance her speed even more. I expect she'll be a lot better in pursuit/finishing squishy champs once people figure out how to take advantage of her new speed.

CatSith1 votes

{quoted}

335 isn't all that slow. All this does is encourage the player to use spider form when moving around and returning to human form to poke.

Overall its a nice change I think. Puts her speed into one form so that boots will enhance her speed even more. I expect she'll be a lot better in pursuit/finishing squishy champs once people figure out how to take advantage of her new speed.

lol are you serious dude? 325 is the lowest ms tier. 335 isnt really much so why bother reducing it in the first place?

DanLikesBacon1 votes

"335 isnt much", are you serious? Do you realise that is T2 movespeed for ranged champs? The only champs with 340 that instantly come to mind are veigar and malz which is pretty damn fast. Plus this makes switching into spider help her assassinate better.

Skia Asteri2 votes

{quoted}

"335 isnt much", are you serious? Do you realise that is T2 movespeed for ranged champs? The only champs with 340 that instantly come to mind are veigar and malz which is pretty damn fast. Plus this makes switching into spider help her assassinate better.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Movement_speed

junglerboy161 votes

You must be using really outdated information, because 335 is SLOW. The current highest base MS in game is 355, shared between Pantheon and Master Yi, and the slowest base move speed in the game is 325, with only about 6-8 champions having that that I can think of.

DanLikesBacon1 votes

are you serious? what ranged champion do you know has 355 movespeed? 335 is not slow for a ranged champion, in fact its the average movespeed that a ranged champion has. Considering you only use human form for using her cocoon q and general damage its an immense buff thats shes getting because she can chase better with the 355 movespeed in spider form. Also keep in mind with 355 movespeed + red buff and her rappel she will chase people even better.

junglerboy161 votes

I never said that ANY ranged champ has that, (In fact I made it quite clear which two champions have that base MS at all). I'm also not arguing that it is a nice buff for her, I was simply pointing out that 335 isn't fast in any way. Average? I guess so, but not fast like you claimed.

DanLikesBacon1 votes

Its pretty fast for a ranged champ is what i meant its definitely not slow at all.

Awoof2 votes

Well, now she has both the lowest and the highest ms tier, lol.

SlytherinUmbreon1 votes

Who cares about her speed, Her Cocoon is actually reliable again :D I CAN ELISE AGAIN~

YOU BEEN WARNED1 votes

As a general principle, mages shouldn't be fast. Especially when they have a lot of escapes.

... That's what made sense to me anyway, meanwhile: Ahri Leblanc Azir Janna

as opposed to Lissandra Lux Soraka

BeerOfRoot48431 votes

A small buff means a larger nerf.

EVE KD1 votes

I personally have picked up Elise a little while ago and while I lover her jungle clearing power and how she can just not care that much about jungle mobs past the first clear, her ganking power is a little on the weak side. Early on her damages are awesome and her kit allows her to make borderline BS plays. My problem with her lies in her all-or-nothing approach. She has to go leeroy in order to kill anything realistically, but she lacks the damage now to do it reliably and whats more if she fails to kill them, she is squishy enough she gets instantly vaporized (especially damage-build) for failing to kill her target at point-blank range. Even building her tanky, she's still a squishy spider that then completely lacks presence. It's like running across tank Garen: It's kind of a joke. I'm not sure where her happy spots at but I'd take something between where she was at on release and where she's at now.

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