@Riot when you designed new Ornn passive, did you forget why old Janna and TF passives got removed?

Zero Skill Tank·Nov 7, 2018·5 votes·1,514 views

Janna used to give constant global movespeed, while TF gave constant global gold. They got removed, because they provided advantage without any gameplay.

How is Ornn, giving his teammates constant global stats (from items) any different, if they don't need to pay for them?

The fact it kicks in later in the game and that he has to choose teammates to buff first doesn't really make it a good gameplay, all it does is making no-gameplay advantage last shorter.

Really, just scrap the item icons and give him a real passive. Otherwise it will end up exactly like the passives mentioned in the title, bloating his winrate for no visible reason, with low satisfaction for both sides, and will get scraped eventually.

12 Comments

ZaghyrNov 7, 20185 votes

Because he isn't giving them free stats for no reason for the entire game. The problem with Janna and Tf's old passives is that it was a constant/permanent bonus for them regardless of their position. With Ornn's passive any bonuses they get is level locked and requires gold to obtain. Janna and Tf vs Ornn are two seperate issues here. Even with the huge changes to Ornn's passive on the PBE, he still has to wait until level 11 and HE has to GO TO his teammates to upgrade their items, which is completely different from 0 interaction global stat buffs that persist throughout the entire game.

Zero Skill TankNov 7, 20181 votes

requires gold to obtain

They no longer will. That's the point. Level locking is nonsense, it just makes constant advantage last for part of the game instead of whole. It doesn't make it a good gameplay, just makes shitty gameplay to not last as long.

Going to his teammates is not an interactive gameplay either, in any way, how do you stop him from meeting his teammates?

It is really the same, just lasts a bit less because of level requirement. Everything else that makes it seem better then Janna passive is imaginary.

DwaryyNov 7, 20182 votes

I think you missed their point, They're saying the base item costs gold, this means the champion would have to have this specific item at that point in the game to be upgraded, which in turn could force a champion into building a specific item earlier, weakening their early game for a potentially better mid to late.

Iota ThetaNov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think you missed their point, They're saying the base item costs gold, this means the champion would have to have this specific item at that point in the game to be upgraded, which in turn could force a champion into building a specific item earlier, weakening their early game for a potentially better mid to late.

Unfortunately, while nice sounding, most ornn upgrade items are earlier buys anyway. Cleaver, Locket, Redemption, Sunfire, Trinity, Abyssal, IE, Zhonyas. The only real later game one is rabadon’s, but the mage user could just be the level 15 upgrade, giving them more time to buy it.

ZaghyrNov 7, 20181 votes

I meant the current version of his passive requires gold to buy, I thought that was clear. Like Dwaryy said it is also dependent on Ornn's teammates building upgradable items and having them completed by Ornn hitting 11, and that will no always be the case. Doing that can mess up the optimal build path you should take just because you want the item upgrade. Even then he can only upgrade once per level so its not like the entire team is going to get a massive power boost out of nowhere, it will be gradual power boosts over several levels.

Going to his teammates IS interactive gameplay. Interactive is DOES NOT have to be between ally and enemy, it can be between ally and ally. It doesn't matter how you spin it, Ornn having to take ACTION and do something in order to give his ally an upgrade IS interactive gameplay.

It is not the same as Janna's old passive. It follows a similar concept, yes, but it is very different. Again, old Tailwind was a static, global buff to all allies that required no action or forethought to use, and had interaction for allies and enemies. Ornn's passive, however, is not static, and not technically global unless you upgrade 1 item for everyone, then it could loosely be considered global, but it is interactive, requires forethought, positioning, and possible communication beforehand to do.

ZT XperimentorNov 7, 20183 votes

Yeah this won't end well . . .

JorenciceNov 7, 20182 votes

Wait they are getting rid of ornm items? Man my veigar buddy is going to be grumpy. He loved ornn rabadons.

DerMangoJoghurtNov 7, 20181 votes

They aren't, but they are changing how they are distributed.

After level 11 Ornn will get his upgrades for free and can use multiple upgraded items at the same time. Additionally, he is able to upgrade one item per teammate (he get's one upgrade charge every level from 12 to 15) at no cost, but he has to stand next to them to do so.

Here is the entire changelist currently planned.

JorenciceNov 7, 20181 votes

That sounds like a massive buff right? That saves his team something like 5k gold and gives another 5k+ worth of free stats.

Iota ThetaNov 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wait they are getting rid of ornm items? Man my veigar buddy is going to be grumpy. He loved ornn rabadons.

Ornn items will stay, but they’re free for him when he hits 11, and then the next 4 levels he can apparently upgrade an ally’s item for free.

jocomotionNov 7, 20182 votes

Ornn’s isn’t global anymore, he’s got to do a Zillean-style channel to upgrade the items. He needs to actually be next to them, and be level 12 or higher to actually upgrade them. And on allies he can only have up to 4 upgrades.

Iota ThetaNov 7, 20181 votes

This alongside the other changes, His winrate will either shoot up like crazy and he’ll be unhealthy due to the excess damage and lack of durability, or it’ll plummet even farther down because he’s too squish to deliver what’s required.