Boards›Gameplay

Some ideas on improving Sion's rework

Kingsgrave··2 votes·388 views

I strongly believe that Sion is not that difficult to play in terms of mechanical skill, he is more and more difficult to play based on how skilled the opponent is. I also believe he isn't like Gnar or Azir where his winrate is low on release because he takes a lot of finesse, it is low because he is way too punishing to play. His kit is incredibly straight forward unlike Azir or Gnar. Currently Sion sits at 44% winrate at low elo and around 38-40% winrate at high elo.

General: His health gains are way too low for a Tank or a Bruiser and he shouldn't have to farm 300 minions to get to the same health level everyone else is at

  • Health per level increased to 90 from 70

Passive: This is to make it so Sion can actually do something with his passive besides just get kited and ignored completely every single time

  • Now revives immediately
  • Now immune to CC when revived
  • Lifesteal increased to 200% from 100%
  • Death Surge MS boost increased to 80% from 50%
  • Death Surge now lasts/decays over 1 second from 1.5 seconds

Q: As of right now it is way too easy to walk out of Sion's Q and just ignore the entirety of it

  • Now charges over the next 1.5 seconds down from 2 seconds
  • Now gains the knock up from .75 seconds of charging down from 1 second
  • Knockup duration lowered to 1 to 2 seconds from 1.25 to 2.25 seconds

W: AP ratios amped up for the cutting of his E magic damage and ratio

  • Shield Strength and Shield Damage AP ratios increased to 70% each from 40% each

E: Right now Sion doesn't get a lot of benefit from building anything besides Full Tank and this opens up room for him to build Black Cleaver more often as well as going well with his 20% armor shred from the E

  • 40% AP ratio replaced with a 25% Bonus AD ratio (60% AP when minion to 50% AD when minion)
  • Damage changed to Physical Damage from Magic Damage
  • Damage lowered to 60/95/130/165/200 from 70/105/140/175/210

4 Comments

Too Ton2 votes

I just want him buffed late game. Any buff in general though is nice

junglerboy161 votes

A lot of your ideas are on point, just a little overdone.

His health per level should be 80, not 90 (85 at most). this would bring him up to 1860, up from 1680, and that is pretty respectable for still having a health gain passive (having 90 per level would give him 2040, which is pretty high for any champ, especially considering his hp passive gain. 85 would be the highest I can see them go, that is about what other tanks get and would give him 1950 hp, which is actually kind of high for a tank). Also, It doesn't take 300 CS to get that much hp, since siege minions and large monsters give him 8, he actually stacks surprisingly fast. He still needs higher base hp regardless.

Passive: None of what you gave him fixes the real problem with it, which is that he is actually not rewarded for being tanky due to draining % hp instead of a flat amount. If they changed it to that, it would fix everything, because they could tune it so that building tanky gives a decently long passive, while building damage gives an appropriately short passive. Other than that, the changes you propose are too strong and would make him more of a suicidal 1v5 team diving monster that then cannot be peeled at all. You suggest taking it from too much counterplay, which is bad, to NO counterplay, which is worse.

Your suggestions for Q would be enjoyable, and are pretty simple and solid buffs that they could give him.

The changes to W are unwarranted, and atm, W is his healthiest spell, I would say leave it as is. buffing it to maybe 50% AP would be ok, but Sion shouldn't be building AP except maybe a sheen item. If anything, buff the hp ratios on it just a little instead because that encourages the tankier build that they want from him (not really needed imo).

E shouldn't deal physical damage. Pretty much every ability I can think of that reduces armor deals magic damage (except maybe Wukong's Q), for the simple reason that it would make BC overly strong on him. Right now, E has a good amount of damage and is great for comboing with his other abilities to help you burst people. As a tank, he actually needs the magic damage to keep relevant as a damage threat without having to build magic/armor pen.

I think they should leave his R as is, it is really fun to use and, when combined with other teammates CC (you shouldn't ever really be initiating all alone, even as a tank), it is a lot harder to dodge than most people think. It just requires decent coordination. (IK you didn't suggest changing t, but I might as well get in my two cents).

Sion just needs the counter play they gave him toned down a bit. He is good at what he is supposed to be (A tank initiator) and really just needs a little shove along his way to help him really shine.

Kingsgrave1 votes

The problem though is that without his E being physical damage he entirely falls off in the damage department mid to late game since his Ult and Q are somewhat unreliable. He has less damage AND tankiness than other Tanks and Bruisers out there. Granted he will probably still fall off late game as most tanks should, I don't really believe he is a full tank. No tank should deal 0 damage anyway. **Besides, 50% Bonus AD ratio on his E isn't going to break anything, it just allows him to build Ravenous + BC then full tank just like Renekton and even Jarvan. **

E doing physical damage and reducing armor isn't a problem since you will almost never fire 2 Es onto someone while they still have the armor reduction from it on them. Not even with 40% CDR.

I shifted the entirety of the AP ratios he has on his kit onto his W. Both the shield strength and damage scaled with 40% each, equaling 80% and his E through a minion would add 60% for 140%. Giving his W higher AP ratios isn't going to break him and if anything will make items like Iceborne more appealing. 70% for health and 70% for damage isn't going to make Sion just straight out build AP, if anything he would just build Trinity or Iceborne and would get more central benefit from Baron. His W's damage is so situational anyway, 70% AP scaling on it isn't going to be too powerful.

Even by adding physical damage and a ratio to his E Sion's damage is still WAY lower than most every other tank in the game and is still a lot harder to apply than most others. Renekton/Maokai are much better versions of Sion in terms of AD Caster Bruiser and just general Health Disruption Tank. By giving Sion even more base health than other tanks while allowing him to get a crapton of health would give him a niche as the "Big Brute guy." He would be tankier than every other tank in the game but deal way less damage than almost all of them.

E with physical damage is mainly to open up his build path to more than just pure tank items. No other Tank or Bruiser is this limited by their kit in terms of builds.

In regards to his passive, I haven't seen anyone actually die to it above Bronze. He is the easiest thing in the world to just run away from and avoid entirely even if he has stuff like Iceborne, Frozen Mallet or Botrk. I'm just trying to make it so its actually USEFUL instead of mostly being a joke/artificial delay on your death timer. Every single Sion is going to be building a crap ton of health anyway, so I don't really see the point in slowing down the rate at which you die in your passive.

Woook3r1 votes

No. Just charge all of his abilities. Read my suggestion.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vUvmcqeA-tweak-sion-to-give-us-more-gameplay-choices

This would make him a true peeler.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Kingsgrave

When a non fan or main of a Champion reworks them it is incredibly apparent and vice versa
Gameplay196 comments
193
votes
Allow Nocturne to go through walls with his Q trail
Gameplay175 comments
163
votes
"Playing games of League of Legends should be the unequivocal best way for a player to improve"
Gameplay69 comments
148
votes
Mobile Champions should deal at least 20-40% less damage in their full combo than Immobile Champions
Gameplay108 comments
143
votes
You could fix the RNG nature of Tryndamere's passive by giving him the treatment you gave his Wife
Gameplay126 comments
132
votes
Proving Lee Sin is numerically Overpowered by comparing him to every other Warrior Enchant Jungler
Gameplay110 comments
127
votes