A defense of CertainlyT

BeatinWarDrumz··11 votes·1,218 views

Warning: this will be a lengthy post. There will also be a poll at the end

So. CertainlyT. For those who dont know, certainlyT is a champion designer who has worked on Darius, Thresh, Yasuo, Zyra, and Kalista. Unfortunately, due to the makeup and the boards and the recent hatred of mobility creep, there is basically a witch hunt for him. Say you like one of his champions? Insta downvote.

Well, im here to show that the hate that this guy receives is undeserved, and, in fact, he is just as good if not better than other champion designers.

Obviously, the best way to analyze the changes he has made is to analyze the champions he has made. Of the 5 he made, only 2 have mobility at all. This shows that he is not some sort of overloaded kit maniac, but rather it has simply been a trait that his two most recent champions have possessed to a degree that is, likely, too high.

Kit by Kit, let's go through:

Darius: Yes, he was broken on release, but this was due to numbers issues rather than an overloaded kit. He, IMO, is a very well designed champion due to his whole kit synergizing with his passive, as well as his very clear kite-ability but if you get grabbed... well, we all know what happens. He fits his concept, atm he's pretty balanced, not overloaded, and fun to play as (not as fun to play against, but this is the case with all lane bullies)

Thresh: IMO, thresh is one of the best designed champions in the game. His skill cap is very high, but he has never been particularly broken nor does he feel unfair to play against as his hok is pretty easy to dodge and landing a good flay - ulti combo is hard. Again, although his w pushes it a bit, he really has no mobility to speak of - just showing that not all of CertainlyT's champions are overloaded like this.

Zyra: Zyra has been a problematic champion snce release, namely due to her overwhelming amount of cc and her weird passive that doesnt fit her kit. In defense of CertainlyT here, he was with a team of three on this

Yasuo: Honestly, i dont really get the yasuo hate. Why? Because proper execution of his combo requires him to have fast reflexes with his r and also requires you to not be able to dodge his tornado witch is slow and you can see when he will use it due to the hite mist around him when he gets it up. His mobility is annoying, but due to it's reliance on minions, proper dodging of askillshots is hard. Yasuo cannot simply spam his mobility/shield and dodge everything - champions like malzahar wreck him and additionally doding and wind-walling take lots of practice.

Kalista: I will admit, she is problematic. Why? Well, simply, IMO he tried too hard to fit kalista's concept into an adc since they hadn't made one in a while. Kalista chases down betrayers, which i guess was supposed to be in her passive, but it's not a passive an adc should have because kalista doesnt just use it chase, and instead gives her infinite mobility and skillshot dodging. If I were to rework her, I would make it so that the passive only procd while moving towards an enemy champion to signify chasing down, but that's besides the point.

Look, champion designers MAKE MISTAKES. Look at old gangplank and sion, poppy, release leblanc (and current leblanc). release riven, etc etc.
CertainlyT has done this too, but he has also tried to bring new and exciting prospects to the table which he has done with darius thresh and yasuo.

20 Comments

Minrog7 votes

You can overload a kit without having mobility skills. They just make it worse.

Thresh actually has two mobility skills. His death sentence lets him leap to an enemy target and the lantern provides an escape for a team member. Without those things he'd be Blitzcrank .

I like how you managed to go through the whole Yasuo paragraph without mentioning his free crit chance or his wind wall.

You can't forgive him for unleashing Kalista . She's still in the game ruining it for everybody 10 months later.

ChaosThief3 votes

The problem with yasuo is mainly his play style. He's rewarded for playing aggressively, and very much so. For a champion who is supposedly a god late game, I would expect him to have a punishable early.

BeatinWarDrumz1 votes

He's a god msd late game... Past 40 he's not great

toonpang2 votes

Past 40 he's not great

Technically unlimited dashes, a wall which makes projectiles disappear, an AOE knockup and doubled efficiency on a six slot build sounds pretty great to me. It's not like Yasuo has shitty scaling.

toonpang3 votes

Of the 5 he made, only 2 have mobility at all

This is immediately where I stopped taking you seriously.

Darius has a 5% speed boost per every bleeding enemy. Thresh has a jump to hooked targets which bypasses walls. Kalista has infinite dashes for every AA. Yasuo has infinite dashes for every new target. Zed's ult, designed by CertainlyT, has an additional dash on it [placed there by CT], and Zed is already a considerably mobile champion.

Zyra was created in tangent with two other people and is his only champion designed so far without any mobility skills. The Morde rework also has a mobility skill [which it did already, to be fair].

The fact that you consider multiple dashes "mobility" and not speed boosts just shows how much CertainlyT has managed to powercreep this game.

CertainlyT is great at coming up with fun champion gimmicks and mechanics.

On the other hand, he is terrible at making champions with clear weaknesses, and tends to make his designs do everything. Which is why he has his reputation as a bad designer.

CertainlyT's designs are like Mary Sues in fan fiction- all strengths, little to no weaknesses.

Stars Shaper1 votes

"Mobility" and "Ways to get enemies" are 2 different things.

toonpang3 votes

No. Thresh can use his hook to chase champs as well as escape, same with Darius. It's mobility - - it makes you more mobile - - and that's factually undeniable.

But thanks for the downvote anyway mate.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I do find a difference and it's in how much free are those tools. For Thresh is surely more favorable than Darius but both of them needs a prerequisite that holds some kind of difficulty or to be already in range.

"Real" mobility is the one that Kalista has.

toonpang2 votes

"Real" mobility is the one that Kalista has

No, Kalista has fucking hypermobility, did you join the game in season 5 or something? Champs being designed with so many dashes that Kalista's mobility is considered "real"? That's a recent trend, due to mobility creep, which was in part, caused by CertainlyT's designs.

And besides you're moving the goalposts. He said:

Of the 5 he made, only 2 have mobility at all

Which is wrong. And if you want to argue he's not wrong, then you're fucking delusional, sorry m8.

Darius, Thresh, Kalista, Zed's ult, and Yasuo all have mobility. Zyra is his only design which doesn't have mobility at all.

Knight SoIaire 3 votes

Of the 5 he made, only 2 have mobility at all.

you better learn to count because that thresh can dash

Darius: Yes, he was broken on release, but this was due to numbers issues rather than an overloaded kit. He, IMO, is a very well designed champion due to his whole kit synergizing with his passive, as well as his very clear kite-ability but if you get grabbed... well, we all know what happens. He fits his concept, atm he's pretty balanced, not overloaded, and fun to play as (not as fun to play against, but this is the case with all lane bullies)

darius was broken due to his kit ... riot needed to cripple that so he wouldnt dominate now they shape him back up

but he has never been particularly broken nor does he feel unfair to play against as his hok is pretty easy to dodge and landing a good flay - ulti combo is hard.

missed a hook ? oh ok i didnt lose anything next one will be back in a sec hit the wrong person ... thanks CT for that cd reduction hit the right person ... gg easy cause im thresh

thresh has a skill cap ... but he is the undisputed champion of the support role unmatched in everythig (he even heals with relic)

Zyra: Zyra has been a problematic champion snce release, namely due to her overwhelming amount of cc and her weird passive that doesnt fit her kit. In defense of CertainlyT here, he was with a team of three on this

He never was alone each champion is designed by a team of people thats the worst argument ever ... CT had the stick and he lead them

But now ... i wont judge anything here ill just tell you the facts as i understand them

CertainlyT got the love due to his unique designs ... he didnt fear to add stuff that other designers avoided due to problems it can create ... this often backfired but that was a normal risk in this situation

now other designers had put him on a pedestal and learned of his greatness now other designers also bring unique and really innovative designs to the table ... but they still take better care of their design not backfiring so hard

Its not that Ct was bad to begin with ... he was good and he is still as good as he was ... but other designers seem to overshadow him now ... and its CT who doesnt learn from the better as others did

Overall your point fails as a defense post ... why ? Because you dont prove to us that ct is any better than we see him ... you clearly just push a biased opinion down our throats with invalid arguments to back it up ... and in some cases you cant even bias your opinion

Gwellaouen2 votes

Hook hitbox large ?

Me missing a champion by hooking really near him. Like ... No. Just, an inch. No. XD On the other hand, I am pretty sure that the damn minions have a really big hitbox or they move very fast to put themselve in front of me when I am hooking. XD

Yesterday, I was Shen against a Darius. You know that the big health Shen can survive Darius passive. Ok, do not try to be the hero too. But eh, it was fun seeing my health not go down so fast.

I will still said it: These champions are really fun to play and this post deserve my respect. I hate so much to see those topic bashing CertainlyT. Where the world is going ? No more respect.

P.S.: Sorry about mistakes. English is not my first language.

toonpang1 votes

"I think CertainlyT's designs are fun, so he's a good designer"

You're missing the point, my friend.

Nobody is arguing CertainlyT's designs aren't fun to play. But they are not fun to play against, they're overloaded and they're never ever balanced on release.

Which is why, despite designing fun abilities, CertainlyT is bad at designing good champs. Because he designs like League is a single player game.

Crossette1 votes

I'm with the people that like CertainlyT, but I still despise some of his champions. I'll go over why.

First off, Zyra is in a terrible spot right now and needs changed. I like her kit and everything though.

Yasuo: This guy. He is resourceless, which is akin to Katarina and Riven, and he also has a passive that uses his open resource bar. This passive blocks ALL OF YOUR POKE. Any Yasuo with a brain will back off after you hit him and run around for a bit to get it back up. Also, his Q tornadoes actually have a pretty wide hitbox, and if you don't have a lot of mobility you can't get away from all of them. (I main Vel'Koz when I go mid, so it's annoying due to my lack of movement speed) The only other thing is his essentially infinite dashes. He'll dash in, AOE Q, then dash back out. Great. This also lets him dodge the poke that his passive would mitigate anyways. Then if his passive is down, he'll windwall your whole combo.

Darius: First of all, that bleed deals MAGIC DAMAGE. If you try to counter him with armor, good luck. His ult even does true damage based on the stacks of hemorrhage. In addition, he can apply it to a whole team with one Q in his new rework. His ult honestly has ridiculous AD scaling, as is the case with his Q in the rework. Not much else to say other than you STILL can't flash out of his pulls. (Riot thought they patched it)

Kalista: If she builds attack speed, it really doesn't matter how tanky you are. She has a stacking E that leads to a 1k damage execute. Basically level 18 smite on a champion or epic monster. Other than that, she gives up a spell for a mobile ward and has an ult that requires an ally to use. The only function of her ult is escape or initiate.

Thresh: I agree that Thresh is well balanced. However, his hook has an odd hitbox from my experience, and it always hits outside of the range of the VFX. His flay is annoying but not terrible, and the souls make the flay passive improve. The only issue I really have with Thresh is that he always has an ally behind him to drag over a wall, and if you play him AD you one-shot squishies because your E passive can crit.

So I really don't like a lot of champions. Usually those with high damage, high mobility, and little risk. But I still feel for CertainlyT, it isn't easy designing champions. Balance is a huge issue, and should be looked at by more than one man.

PopCorn Chick3n1 votes

{quoted}

I'm with the people that like CertainlyT, but I still despise some of his champions. I'll go over why.

First off, Zyra is in a terrible spot right now and needs changed. I like her kit and everything though.

Yasuo: This guy. He is resourceless, which is akin to Katarina and Riven, and he also has a passive that uses his open resource bar. This passive blocks ALL OF YOUR POKE. Any Yasuo with a brain will back off after you hit him and run around for a bit to get it back up. Also, his Q tornadoes actually have a pretty wide hitbox, and if you don't have a lot of mobility you can't get away from all of them. (I main Vel'Koz when I go mid, so it's annoying due to my lack of movement speed) The only other thing is his essentially infinite dashes. He'll dash in, AOE Q, then dash back out. Great. This also lets him dodge the poke that his passive would mitigate anyways. Then if his passive is down, he'll windwall your whole combo.

Darius: First of all, that bleed deals MAGIC DAMAGE. If you try to counter him with armor, good luck. His ult even does true damage based on the stacks of hemorrhage. In addition, he can apply it to a whole team with one Q in his new rework. His ult honestly has ridiculous AD scaling, as is the case with his Q in the rework. Not much else to say other than you STILL can't flash out of his pulls. (Riot thought they patched it)

Kalista: If she builds attack speed, it really doesn't matter how tanky you are. She has a stacking E that leads to a 1k damage execute. Basically level 18 smite on a champion or epic monster. Other than that, she gives up a spell for a mobile ward and has an ult that requires an ally to use. The only function of her ult is escape or initiate.

Thresh: I agree that Thresh is well balanced. However, his hook has an odd hitbox from my experience, and it always hits outside of the range of the VFX. His flay is annoying but not terrible, and the souls make the flay passive improve. The only issue I really have with Thresh is that he always has an ally behind him to drag over a wall, and if you play him AD you one-shot squishies because your E passive can crit.

So I really don't like a lot of champions. Usually those with high damage, high mobility, and little risk. But I still feel for CertainlyT, it isn't easy designing champions. Balance is a huge issue, and should be looked at by more than one man.

I totally agree with you on Zyra's spot in the game right now, but gladly I think she will get some changes/improvements soon. To be honest, I think CertainlyT is a great champion designer but maybe he doesn't have much experience with balancing champion. I don't hate any riot as long as they put their effort on something even if the result is bad or good. Sorry for bad English :P.

Stars Shaper1 votes

If you can't poke Yasuo you are playing your character wrong.

Crossette2 votes

I win lane against Yasuo when I play against him. I'm just venting for the people that get absolutely stomped and feed the guy to oblivion, pretty much. Also his kit has a lot of mobility and damage, backed up by safety nets.

redniwediS1 votes

I didn't have a bad opinion of CertainlyT to begin with, but this will definitely keep my opinion of him from dropping for a while.

Sasogwa1 votes

I'm fine with most of his champions, because what was mostly problematic about those were their numbers on release (even Yasuo). Thresh has a kit with so much ridiculous utility, that he'd be picked even if he had 0 damage. But to a certain extent, he's fine. Other supports are also very strong at peeling/providing CC.

But Kalista? Just no. How could this champion even go live? This champion is the incarnation of cancer. It's like Vayne 2.0 but without counterplay. At least you can pink Vayne. How is a champion whose sole design is to shit on kitable melees and be literally impossible to reach... without any help from her support? Selfpeel is already annoying to deal with, but Kalista? Her design is beyond toxic. By her sheer existence, she renders lots of champions literally out of meta.

We don't want to enforce the meta. Well, with Kalista, mobility+CC meta is enforced. You HAVE to get a lot of mobility and CC, it's not an option or a bonus, it's a must have. And please, I've already seen the argument "but muh weaker lategame than other adcs". You've seen competitive games, you must have seen protect the Kalista comps. With Lulu /Janna /Kalista . Kalista still melts over everybody (thanks item 3153 , balanced item) while being completely unkillable.

Kalista's passive is just as ridiculous as... let's say we make a new melee champion which passive is : if he attacks a target within 500 range, blinks to it. Though I'm not sure that in the future we won't actually need passives like that to stick to carries.

Meanwhile let's work on Morde to make him even more kiteable... Kappa.

Stars Shaper1 votes

You didn't change my opinion on him because I always thought as you do :P

Dr Dormidon1 votes

CertainlyT is a pretty cool guy you know

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