Dear Jungler's: From a mid/top laner.

Zerenza·Jul 9, 2016·26 votes·1,882 views

Whether it's because of a death or not, do not go in my lane pre-mid game and die to my laner while i'm not there. Go get the minion wave idgaf, but trying to get a kill on a low enemy while their under their tower and dieing because of it is stupid.

I don't care if i can recover or not, what i care about is you making my game harder on me by being stupid. Please don't go into a lane while they aren't there and do something stupid.

If i am not there please don't go in, okay?

62 Comments

100T iLLJul 9, 201613 votes

i will never understand how someone feeds my lane under turret

nice tableJul 9, 20166 votes

dear mid and top laners, stop dying 1v1 at level 3 there is literally no reason for it.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20167 votes

Most mid/top laner's do a level 2-3 all in in an attempt to get a kill early, its extremely common and in most cases someone has to die. The good thing is that 1 kill is easy to recover from so it's not a huge deal; however, it's extremely stupid to go in on someone as a jungler when your behind them on health and level. it basically puts a giant mark on your head that says 'I'm useless to my team so do whatever you want."

WeatheredJul 9, 20166 votes

Being extremely common doesn't mean good. Why do you think there is a low ELO trend of really stomp games? Why is it you see higher ELO games fof us on farm and only wait for freelo ganks? It gets on my nerves a lot that people will pick all in champions, roll the dice early, and nearly decide the game before anyone else can get anywhere to save it.

Don't die within the first 6 minutes, I've won nearly every game if this happens.

-A Jungle Main

ZerenzaJul 9, 20163 votes

It doesn't have to be an all in champ. Any Assassin, Fighter or Burst mage will try a level 2-3 all in. That isn't exactly the point though the whole point of this post is to tell jungler's IF i die, don't go in without me. Like that's super simple, don't go in without me in general but especially if i die no matter how low the enemy is. Please just don't go in.

In typical jungler fashion though you have to make youself out to be a saint, but if you go in without me and die. Not my fault that you died, don't blame it on me trying to fight them. It's your fault for going in without your laner there, not mine. It's mine if i die of course but its your fault if you do.

DeathBot666Jul 9, 20163 votes

But you forgot rule #1 and 2 of League of Legends

Rule #1 Don't chase singed.

Rule #2 Blame everyone else.

Your trying to bring up a reasonable point, which means that the role your talking to will try and make it your fault.

Also, as a fellow mid lane main I just want to bring up that even if we listen and DON'T do a level 3 engage, the enemy laner can still do one and kill us. Champs with lvl 3 power spikes could easily burst you down if they make a good engage.

nice tableJul 9, 20165 votes

i dont know what elo you are playing at but "most" people who know something about the game dont attemp a all in at level 2-3 and when they do its because they can win that all in and their lane opponent understands that and respects their pressure instead of taking the all in.

EndlessSorcererJul 9, 20163 votes

They're unranked and playing with primarily Bronze players.

So, their views make more sense in that context.

They're still wrong, but it's easier to see how they came about them.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

Normals has MMR too, i play with high silver's low gold, still low ELO but remember that it isn't bronze. To be fair though i have a lot of high ELO friends who normals MMR puts them with unranked people and bronzies cause they played normals when they were bad like a long time ago lol

I'm in my promo's btw; i'v chosen not to become ranked this season due to it fluctuating so much in meta's and them adding so many new things so often.

PS: It's better to enter ranked when your comfortable with everything, i am not, but in the 1 ranked match i played my jungler did this to me and well, i was not happy.

nice tableJul 9, 20164 votes

you play with high / low bronzes and low silvers according to your match history, that kind of explains your posts though, everyone at this elo plays early game champions and keeps running into each other for no reason at all. you should try not going aggro every game and just play smart, will improve you as a player n shit ya know.

EndlessSorcererJul 9, 20162 votes

Eh, I just checked at na.op.gg and it showed you were unranked and played with primarily Bronze players in the last few matches.

Though, I didn't refresh the page before looking so that might have been it.

Slack KingJul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Eh, I just checked at na.op.gg and it showed you were unranked and played with primarily Bronze players in the last few matches.

Though, I didn't refresh the page before looking so that might have been it.

Agreed, I pick up quite a few double kills when jungle ganks, mainly due to me switching onto the squishier jungles like lee.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

I'v seen a few golds every once in awhile, nothing major like not every game, it fluctuates from sometimes having lots of silver's to having only bronzes. Lately i'v been doing really poorly so that might also be a factor (trying out new champions that i couldn't play before)

You are very likely right though, once i get into higher ELO i might not have to worry about it as much but respect low ELO as well cause remember majority of players in league are actually gold or bellow.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

It's a solo lane for a reason, if you get a powerspike and want to use that powerspike to try and kill the enemy laner or make them back and miss CS. Chances are you probably should as long as you can get away with it, if it just so happens you couldn't and the enemy killed you instead, then that sucks but its your job to recover because it was your fault. If the jungler runs in there with half health and try to tower dive them though, that's not their fault it's the jungler's.

KING 5HARKJul 9, 20163 votes

Any Assassin, Fighter or Burst mage will try a level 2-3 all in

Not to offend you, are you bronze? There is literally no reason to die 1v1 before level 6 in 99% of the matchups

IF i die, don't go in without me

Well, you went in stupidly without them so whats your point? You're allowed to feed but the jungler isnt? Everyone has to deal with that fed Riven/Fiora/whatever later on, its not just you who plays against them.

I dont want to offend you in any way, I'm just curious where the assumption of the Mage/Fighter level 3 all in comes from, I get that some assassins(Fizz, Zed) can do it but wtf?!

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

Okay let's say i'm playing Ekko, ekko has a really powerful level 3 powerspike, if i'm in a matchup that can go either way it's a good idea to go and try to kill them at level 3 and if i fail and die it sucks but it's recoverable, now let's say the enemy mid laner was really low from that trade and my jungler goes in and tries to fight them. Then the jungler dies, is that my fault? Or theirs.

Many burst mages, assassins and fighter's have very powerful level 3's and even stronger level 6s. For someone who might not play mid/top, you might be wondering why a kill happens at either level 3 or level 6. It's because of those power spikes.

Ekko, Annie, Ahri, Pantheon, Leblance, Fizz, Zed, Talon and Katarina all have strong level 3's over immobile champions and against a lot of matchups that can go either way. So it's common to see them try a quick all in and most likely get away, but if they don't and die. As a jungler it's probably not a good idea to go in there and try to clean up just because the enemy is low, especially to tower dive them, because if you die too it's not your midlaner's fault it's yours. i normally get away with it if i don't kill the enemy cause its easy to tell when you've over extended then i wait until level 6 and try again or call for my jungler to assist me.

I'm just genuinely sick of a junlger trying to clean up when and if i die because if they die to it really puts me behind and gives the enemy a a good gold lead on me but it also puts my jungler behind a bit too.

Does that make more sense?

Also, it isn't that the jungler isn't allowed to feed, its that 1 kill lead is recoverable and isn't feeding. If you run up there and try to clean up a riven who's under tower with low health and end up dieing then your the one that needs to take a bit of responsibility for feeding her, not just the laner.

Finally its called a solo lane for a reason, solo kills are supposed to happen in that lane and your supposed to try them when you can.

KING 5HARKJul 10, 20161 votes

if i fail and die it sucks but it's recoverable

Its still unnecessary. Equally as unneccessary as the Jungler dying, EQUALLY, not less unneccessary...

Ekko, Annie, Ahri, Pantheon, Leblance, Fizz, Zed, Talon and Katarina all have strong level 3's over immobile champions

Annies level 3 all in isn't something to be proud of, Katarinas and Talons suck numbers wise(unless your opponent lets you auto for free...). I'd agree on Fizz/Zed/LB as I said, but:

common to see them try a quick all in and most likely get away

Is completely dependant on skill/elo(high elo players rarely ever go for risky plays)

because if you die too it's not your midlaner's fault it's yours

You dying is in no way any less their mistake aswell

especially to tower dive them

Thats dumb, who does that?

it's probably not a good idea to go in there

Most Junglers have stronger level 3s than laners, its just a matter of knowing your champ. You already proved you dont know your limits at all, whats to say against him testing his? Sure its dumb but are you really gonna fault him for doing EXACTLY what you just did?

i normally get away with it if i don't kill the enemy

So its okay for you to die?

really puts me behind and gives the enemy a a good gold lead on me

So you doing dumb shit doesnt put you behind? I cant see how you even dare complain about someone pulling the same shit as you??!

needs to take a bit of responsibility for feeding her, not just the laner.

They have no right to blame you for anything, but youre the one blaming them here, I'll say it again: You have no right to

called a solo lane for a reason

You are there alone

its that 1 kill lead is recoverable and isn't feeding

The first kill is equally as bad as the second, theres no line when an enemy is fed. You dying solo is as bad as him dying solo

solo kills are supposed to happen

Why? A lot of matchups are simply farm/scale-for-teamfights or wait-for-gank lanes, which arguably is the safest/least risky way to play this game(and since thats the way pro play turns out, I'd dare say its the best way to play this game)

your supposed to try them when you can.

Apparently you cant, else you wouldnt have died

All of this doesnt take into account: Missed minions on either side, freezes and other ingame stuff, just the kills in a vacuum, have a nice day

ZerenzaJul 10, 20161 votes

Your post is literally longer that the original post. Was that necessary to pick at every little bitty half of a sentence. I don't really think so and you don't really seem to be getting the point, this is not a high ELO thing, as stated by SEVERAL other people. You seem to think that everyone is high ELO and that isn't true, in addition this isn't talking about one game, it just something that i keep seeing happening when it really shouldn't.

Of course things are unnecessary, they happen all the time, that's literally what i'm saying. It's not necessary to go get a cheeky kill off of a low enemy when your ally is gone, it's to risky and it might turn out badly. But all you care about is me saying one word "I died" that does not necessarily have to be the case, if i say "I died" you pick and choose all my words and center it around that and it's bullshit.

I don't give a shit if your a diamond 1 riven smurf(sure as hell acting like one) or whatever if you can't understand that when i die ALONE in a lane or if i AM NOT THERE and my jungler on my team that i am not duoing with decides to go in without me. It is in NO WAY my fault for THEIR decision. I can make my own bad decision, take responsibility, learn and move on. But it is not my fault that they went in there alone and did something stupid too.

A high ELO player won't go for risky plays because they know there limits, were i'm at people don't, i don't we make mistakes and learn from them. it's what your supposed to do, you don't really seem to understand that.

I did not state that MY DIEING is their fault, i simply state that THEIR dieing is not my fault, especially if i'm not there and did not call for them in the first place. Now if they gank and i die, i can accept that but that's not the case in this thread.

I'd really suggest you stop, the other people in this thread are helpful, your not.

KING 5HARKJul 10, 20161 votes

I did not state that MY DIEING is their fault, i simply state that THEIR dieing is not my fault, especially if i'm not there and did not call for them in the first place. Now if they gank and i die, i can accept that but that's not the case in this thread.

Who said it is? You complain about something somebody else did, nobody complains about what you did.

A high ELO player won't go for risky plays because they know there limits, were i'm at people don't, i don't we make mistakes and learn from them. it's what your supposed to do, you don't really seem to understand that.

The Jungler is doing the exact same thing you do, hes learning from his mistake aswell, why is it forbidden for him?

I'd really suggest you stop, the other people in this thread are helpful, your not.

Because I disagree? edit: You seem to get into the same discussion with everyone here and half of the people disagree with you so I'm gonna peace out and not give a shit anymore

WeatheredJul 9, 20161 votes

If I was talking about the op, I would've made a separate comment, hence why I made a comment to yours.

I also didn't make myself out as a saint. But in my eyes the jungler who dies on a solo gank is as dumb as the lanes who gives first blood level 2.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

It's common in midlane for matchups that could go either way to result in a level 3 or 6 all in dependant of course on the match up. But if your laner dies it's probably not best to go and try to clean up because it's too risky, in the even you die to your giving the enemy a free kill and your putting yourself behind the other jungler. If the jungler happens to be nearby and is even in the lane, they'll also gain experience and if they help just a bit and you get caught out, you just gave the enemy a kill and an assist.

Does it make sense to assume that as a jungler you shouldn't go and try to clean up? It's high risk and if you fail it might loose your laner their lane depending on the match up.

WeatheredJul 9, 20161 votes

Ill say it yet another time, I was never originally talking about this theoretical jungle who dies solo. I was only talking about all ins.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

Then whyd you make the post? The topic was this jungler not all ins hell it doesnt even have to be an all in if i'm not in my lane and they die to them while i'm not there its the same damned thing lol

Don't die solo in a persons lane like thats basically what i made the post about and all of you are like "Well the midlaners an ass for dieing in the first place" when that is not the point. As a jungler you should not go into a lane alone, that was the first rule i learned about jungling and im not even a jungler.

nice tableJul 9, 20162 votes

most mid/top laners are boosted and dont know the matchup or their powerspikes so the level 2-3 all in becomes a coin flip which is why all your games are shitty stomps, and you making this retarded all in tilts your jungler.

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

In a match up that can go either way it's a good idea to use your powerspike to your advantage, especially if the enemy doesn't have one and you know that. In the case that you die and your jungler tries to clean up then dies as well, it isn't the laner's fault, it's the jungler's for going in without him.

nice tableJul 9, 20162 votes

there are very, very few matchups where it can go either way and you shouldn't take the all ins when it can go either way. of course its the junglers fault but trust me it tilts your jungler when you die at level 3 for no reason at all.

Slack KingJul 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Most mid/top laner's do a level 2-3 all in in an attempt to get a kill early, its extremely common and in most cases someone has to die. The good thing is that 1 kill is easy to recover from so it's not a huge deal; however, it's extremely stupid to go in on someone as a jungler when your behind them on health and level. it basically puts a giant mark on your head that says 'I'm useless to my team so do whatever you want."

People get too bent outta shape for one kill, which literally translates into a single ruby crystal midgame. The issue is kill 2-3

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

Yes which is why i don't like it when my enemy gets kill two because my jungler decides to be a badass and tower dive them when i'm not there, for whatever reason if i'm not there i don't want the jungler to go there except maybe to get the CS if it's dieing under tower or something.

It's just way to risky to go into a lane alone as the jungler, you might get ganked while your ally is gone for example and give a free kill to the enemy, you just never know.

NineTailedMysticJul 10, 20161 votes

EXP lead and minion denial. It's not just the kill gold.

LankPantsJul 10, 20161 votes

It's actually almost always better not to start a 1v1 fight ever. You're at an automatic disadvantage if you're the one starting the fight, you have to burn any potential escape you have just to close distance, past that kills just aren't worth much in League. It's not worth trying super hard to kill your lane opponent, you get 300 gold from about 2 and a half creep waves.

You also have to fuck up to be in a position where your jungler can engage a fight before you get back to lane. That means you went in when your jungler was almost ready to help you but just needed 10-20 more seconds. If you waited that time out you could have potentially won a 2v1 rather than losing 1v1.

ZerenzaJul 10, 20161 votes

If i'm not in my lane, be it cause i died,i'm roaming or i backed; it's safe to say the jungler should go do something else. Toplaner's aren't the only ones who need map awareness and i'm not responsible for my jungler not realize i'm not there when they have plenty of time to do so.

Do you know what a snowball champion is? Cause snowball champions need kills to get ahead and rely heavily on them. The midlane is full of snowball champions because its the assassin lane and the vast majority of assassins need to snowball. The toplane has a large amount of snowball fighter's and even some assassins as well, they need those kills to be useful and to do their job.

Funny example is this phrase "Akali farms champions, not minions" it's because akali needs kills to get ahead and once she does get ahead she start to kill everyone in the game really easily because she snowballs like mad.

LankPantsJul 10, 20161 votes

If i'm not in my lane, be it cause i died,i'm roaming or i backed; it's safe to say the jungler should go do something else. Toplaner's aren't the only ones who need map awareness and i'm not responsible for my jungler not realize i'm not there when they have plenty of time to do so.

You missed the point, if the jungler is close enough that they can get to top before you can TP back to lane they were close enough for you just to wait for a gank rather than go for a risky 1v1.

Do you know what a snowball champion is? Cause snowball champions need kills to get ahead and rely heavily on them.

Speaking generally you don't need to get kills to snowball. It's entirely possible to snowball off of CS advantage, especially in top. You can use your early pressure to zone enemies off of the wave and generate CS and HP advantages. This is the correct way to play champions like Renekton and Darius assuming your enemy isn't dumb enough to trade into you.

The simple fact is trying to 1v1 the enemy hands them the advantage. If you hook an Irelia as Darius she just closed the gap on you without using Q, she now has 1 more spell to trade with than you do and a guaranteed stun. If you stand in front of the wave and AA+Q her every time she goes for a CS she's forced to chose between farm and HP, which means you get either CS advantage or HP advantage. If she doesn't respect you and loses a significant chunk of HP then you can attempt an all-in and it's a much lower risk play.

The midlane is full of snowball champions because its the assassin lane and the vast majority of assassins need to snowball.

Most assassins do not have kits which allow for early all-ins. You really can't all in as a Talon, Zed or even Fizz and expect to beat a mage early. If you do you'll get CCed, take a couple of hundred damage and then they'll back off. That changes when they get their ults but it's still generally a better play to push up and try to roam, because in a roam situation you normally have an advantage in the number of players present which reduces risk.

Funny example is this phrase "Akali farms champions, not minions" it's because akali needs kills to get ahead and once she does get ahead she start to kill everyone in the game really easily because she snowballs like mad.

Akali has an abysmal laning phase and should never be played aggressively in lane. Her laning phase is so bad it's generally a bad call to gank her lane as a jungler pre 6 because she completely lacks follow up. I know this, I play Akali. Akali is one of the most farm reliant champs in the game, against a competent opponent she cannot snowball.

Akali probably does farm champs in bronze though. Based on what you've been saying she would generate advantages just based off of enemy overagression. Assuming the Akali player just farms up the enemy laner's going to overcommit and Akali is a champ who can deter aggression quite well.

Baby GhoulJul 9, 20163 votes

I don't see that happen often in all honestly. Junglers do not like taking big risks like that from my experience, even if you are there.

What I see more often is after you die, your jungler comes in and taxes your lane for a gank they didn't give and likely will not give in the future.

I'm not ADC crazy about people taking my CS, but come on. You're gonna kick me while I'm down?

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

I'm okay with them taxing my lane but tower diving the enemy laner and giving them a free kill tilts me xD I'v seen it happen a lot more often recently. Especially if its like under my tower or something, cause then atleast someone is getting the EXP and gold while i'm gone.

Some jungler's have what i like to call "Lee Sin Syndrome" they think they can pull off a really badass play and just end up messing up really bad then dieing, usually under tower.

GibberwattJul 10, 20162 votes

Dear mid/top laner, from a sometimes Jng. I like to think of it as, I'm keeping your tower safe until you get back. Plus, the minion xp isn't wasted, and I get a bit of extra money. Although, you're right about dying. That is totally unacceptable.

Also, for me at least, I tend to camp top/mid really hard, and let bot lane fend for itself (since it's got two peeps). So, unless you're being a dick, I will help you out, fairly soon. Maybe ft you back that kill

ZerenzaJul 10, 20161 votes

Yeah like i'm fine if your undertower clearing a wave for me that's great but these jungler's i'm talking about go in for the sole purpose of killing my enemy laner who's kind of low after i died or after a trade and then they end up dieing lol

Honestly i don't mind never getting ganked, it doesn't bother me much, if your not comfortable in whether we can get something out of it then by all means ignore my lane and i'll do my best not to feed. If anything, if you don't go there maybe it'll ward off the enemy jungler too.

GibberwattJul 10, 20161 votes

It sounds like you're a good laner. I don't think we have any issues with eachother, then.

Friendly RamJul 9, 20161 votes

How often does that usually happen?

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

Actually i'v only seen it happen a few times, maybe once ever 4 games? But it's really frustrating for the laner, whether it's me or not, even if it's not because the laner died and they just backed or something and aren't there it's really not fun to deal with especially in soloq.

Friendly RamJul 9, 20162 votes

Gotcha hope it becomes better.

bleufromageJul 9, 20161 votes

And then you have the other asses who say you never gank thier lane and that's why they lost lane after they are already 0/2 in the first 5 min

ZerenzaJul 9, 20161 votes

I'm okay with not getting a gank in a few cases but if i'm not already behind and the enemy is like a Veigar or something squishy that is immobile, i'm gonna be a slight bit upset if we never get that juicy free kill.

Also 1 kill behind does not warrant never ganking someone, again, that is recoverable.

bleufromageJul 10, 20162 votes

Notice i said 0/2. I dont care if its an immoble champ or not if you give up 2 kills early you lost the game for yourself. All a gank could do is give the person two more kills especially if the enemy jg decides to camp which you know they will. If you give up early kills its up to you to ward like crazy. Farm extremely passive and build for what the team needs. Instead you always get bitches who gotta blame the jg.

ZerenzaJul 10, 20161 votes

This isn't about the deaths, it's about the jungler going into a lane ALONE and dieing because of it to the enemy. Nothing about ganking and yes i did notice you said 0/2; however, if your laner is not already behind(IE they are not feeding, feeding meaning the enemy doesn't have 2 kills already) then you should probably try and gank them. Just showing your face might be enough to win someones lane for them.

bleufromageJul 10, 20161 votes

Yeah I'm not trying to invalidate your point I agree with you. I'm saying that the majority of top laners in my game act like little bitches when they are 100%responsible for why they are behind but you know the motto "blame the jungler" always prevails. So many people just do not want to or know how to play from behind.

LankPantsJul 10, 20161 votes

Ideally you shouldn't be putting your jungler into this position. The best way to win games is to find ways not to die in the lane phase. If you're going all-in and your opponent reciprocates you're essentially flipping a coin against your opponent (assuming they're of equal skill). If you have to burn multiple spells to close on them then it's worse than a coin flip, you're actually giving them the advantage.

The difference between 1 and 2 kills also isn't as big as you think. Assuming your jungler forces them off of CS you can actually come out ahead of this situation.

The advantage you get from kills isn't really the 300 gold and some EXP, that's not bad obviously but most of the advantage is in CS. If after I kill you I farm 2 waves and push 2 waves into tower I've created an effective 24 creep advantage. 24 creeps is worth 430 gold and almost an entire level. In top this can be even worse because lane freezes are a thing. I've created a 35 CS lead off of a single kill, because I was denying CS that entire time it's about a 70 CS advantage.

Is it ever worth risking that sort of disadvantage, especially knowing that freezes can normally only occur for the person being aggressed on?

Martin PaapJul 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Stop going in my lane after i die at level 3 with half health and feeding my laner. Thank you.

That is like the absolute worst thing you can do, going into a lane when your ally is gone and dieing because of it, 1 kill ahead is recoverable. Two is a lot harder especially in mid and top lane so do us a favor and farm.

the one who dies blames his jungle anyway...

ZerenzaJul 10, 20161 votes

It doesn't matter if it's because i died or not, if my jungler is being stupid and runs into my lane while i'm not there. For whatever reason, and dies to my enemy, i have every right to be frustrated. It's stupid to go into a lane without your laner and try to kill an enemy, no matter how low, it's to risky and it can result in loosing the lane.

HealeyJul 10, 20161 votes

As a jungler, stop dying for free. You make the game harder for everyone. Enemy jungler and enemy lamer both used ult and a summoner? Fine. Otherwise stop dying- I'll carry you.