Really hope the marksmen update addresses the problem of ADC being a mandatory role

The Bearded Bard··6 votes·1,140 views

I see the appeal, ADC are relatively safe with their range, they definitely do the most damage, and they take towers incredibly quickly, but should they be absolutely mandatory? What kind of diversity is that? Even if it wasn't insanely stale because everyone just shifts between the three most powerful ADC champs at the time, it'd still lack diversity since you've created a mandatory role.

Mordekaiser was a decent start, although I think it was executed awfully (Yea, let's just win by straight up being two levels ahead at all times!) I think people should actively think for themselves and try out new bot lanes. I've been having a lot of success with AP ziggs as the marksmen bot lane. He takes towers quickly, defends towers well, great wave clear, high range, self peel, aoe damage, and a bit of cc.

Just a few ADC replacement suggestions for when you've got too much AD on your team:

Ziggs As I said before, a lot of advantages with Ziggs. He takes towers quickly, zones well, farms well, defends towers well, self peel, aoe damage, high range, and a bit of cc. Works great for safe or aggressive lanes, but falls off against healing lanes.

Orianna Synergizes well with most supports, makes for incredibly easy jungle ganks, high utility on top of damage, good zoning tools, easy farming, easy tower defense, self peel, good range, wins trades early on through passive and shield alone.

Anivia Tons of CC, self peel, damage, zoning tools, passive is much easier to pull off with a support to help peel for her, jungle ganks made easy, tower defense, early game is a bit more forgiving when you've got a support to hold your hand, extremely good at keeping enemies off dragon, late game does a rather extreme amount of damage, perhaps not ADC level, but pretty damn close.

Ahri Tons of mobility and self peel, a catch out cc tool, true damage, wave clear, aoe damage, works well with aggressive supports.

Cassiopeia Two people to poison means more stacks means earlier power spikes, ADC level damage late game, good wave clear, nice aoe cc and damage on top of incredibly strong single target damage, support makes early game more forgiving, good at zoning, good at tower defense, strong ability to take drags at early levels.

Leblanc Great at keeping enemy ADC from farming, tons of mobility and self peel, not so great at everything else. This one's a bit cheesy.

Lissandra Great wave clear, ult that deletes enemy adc, a lot of cc, some mobility, and a ton of self peel, great tower defense, easy tower dives while being very difficult to tower dive.

Malzahar High aoe damage and nearly adc lvl single target damage, easy farming, mana sustain, mixed damage with voidlings, ult that deletes enemy adc, post 6 can't be towerdived, great at taking towers, less easy to gank when paired with a support.

Kennen High aoe, great self peel, no mana, decent single target damage, heavy cc with a crazy strong ult, makes ganks easy, difficult to gank.

Swain Having a support makes him less gankable and makes the early game easier, easy targeted harass, easy lane once you hit 6.

Xerath Nearly adc level damage late game, all aoe except his stun, huge range, great wave clear, global ult for tower siege/pick offs, great tower defense, mana sustain, similar to playing ziggs but with less tower taking ability, more damage, and less self peel and cc.

Viktor Duels well with the shield from Q, good zoning tools, good wave clear, has versatility, pretty good at defending towers, decent CC.

TwistedFate Targeted stun, good wave clear and tower defense, ult is great for picking off enemy junglers or scouting for drag, good at taking towers, works well with supports.

Veigar Zyra Elise Brand Fiddlesticks Lux Karthus I think these champions would do decently bot lane, but would be better at supporting or just sticking to their intended lanes/jungle.

29 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

This is basically what I'm hoping for, making marksmen less required in bot lane and not as annoying to fight against in other lanes (due to range advantage).

Cowgirl Ed2 votes

+1 NOBODY wants to play fuckin adc (at least from gold and below) It's boring and it's stupid I'm not talking about the role, some of them are funny

but i dont like how its obligatory to ALWAYS have 1 adc

Ralanr1 votes

I wouldn't say no one wants to play ADC. Rather no one wants to be shoehorned into the role.

Fill roles normally take either support or ADC. That lane has too much stress.

lostbob1172 votes

ADC is not mandatory

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Oh yeah? Then why are the roles called 'Top, Jungle, Mid, Support, and ADC'?

Sightless662 votes

That's fine, so long as AD carries get more opportunities to function in other lanes as well.

The Bearded Bard2 votes

Vayne top, Quinn top, Ezreal mid, Varus mid, cait mid, corki mid, jinx mid, MF mid, and lucian mid are all viable and used. Most ADC can honestly solo lane just fine.

Ralanr2 votes

Fine for everyone against them. It's fun getting snipped toplane and having them retreat before you can get them.

Fun.

Sightless662 votes

If we're saying shit like Cait mid, Jinx mid, MF mid and Lucian mid are viable, then I'm calling Talon, Ziggs, Xerath, Gnar, Yasuo and Fiora viable for the ADC position. I've at least seen those played sometime in the last 2 years, which is more than I can say for Jinx mid. Seriously man, you're giving waaaaay too much credit to AD carries being viable in other lanes.

You see Quinn top, Vayne rarely top, Varus mid, and Ezreal is barely played mid since AP Ezreal got nerfed. Aside from that, they're bot lane pretty much all of the time. The meta is just as strict on AD carries not leaving bot lane as it is on no one but AD carries being played there.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I am very sorry for your closed-mindedness.

Sightless662 votes

Don't pull that holier-than-thou shit. If you're going to complain about how AD carries are a mandatory role, then don't get on me for complaining about how it's mandatory that AD carries don't do anything but go bot. It's not unreasonable to want other lanes to be opened up for AD carries if we're opening up the only role almost all AD carries have to other champions.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

If we're saying shit like Cait mid, Jinx mid, MF mid and Lucian mid are viable, then I'm calling Talon, Ziggs, Xerath, Gnar, Yasuo and Fiora viable for the ADC position. I've at least seen those played sometime in the last 2 years, which is more than I can say for Jinx mid. Seriously man, you're giving waaaaay too much credit to AD carries being viable in other lanes.

You see Quinn top, Vayne rarely top, Varus mid, and Ezreal is barely played mid since AP Ezreal got nerfed. Aside from that, they're bot lane pretty much all of the time. The meta is just as strict on AD carries not leaving bot lane as it is on no one but AD carries being played there.

ADCs were initially played in solo lanes until it was realized they should go bot with a support, them not being in a solo lane isn't because they "can't".

Ezreal mid was rarely built AP other than runeglaive, his popular mid build consisted of him being built AD. Varus is played Mid almost 40% of the time, how is that "rare"? Quinn is also played top 35% of the time. Now we're getting one that jungles soon.

Sightless661 votes

ADCs were initially played in solo lanes until it was realized they should go bot with a support, them not being in a solo lane isn't because they "can't".

Yeah, and AP champions were played with supports, so it's not about "can't" in the other direction either. It's about "shouldn't". It's generally worse to play AP champions bot lane, and it's generally worse to play most AD carries anywhere that isn't bot lane. If we're opening up bot lane to other champions, and we should, then it's reasonable to expect more than 2-3 AD carries to work in other roles.

Varus is played Mid almost 40% of the time, how is that "rare"?

Rare was a word used to describe Vayne, not Varus. Vayne top is rare. Varus mid isn't.

Quinn is also played top 35% of the time.

Yes. I'm aware. She's also pretty much the only one, and she has pretty much no impact on the meta. It's largely due to her not being good as an ADC, not because she's actually really good top, despite her kit being practically designed for it.

his popular mid build consisted of him being built AD

He hasn't been seriously played mid as an AD for quite a few seasons now. AP Ezreal is pretty much the only impact midlane he's had for years, and it's mostly dead.

Now we're getting one that jungles soon.

So, I'll have one ADC choice for each lane. That's better than the past (even having Varus be an actual good ADC midlaner is better than the past), but if we have a goal of opening up bot lane to other champions (and again, I think we should have that goal), I expect more than one legitimate ADC choice for other lanes. I don't think that's an unrealistic request.

Reynard the ƒox1 votes

The reason people do ranged AD bot and never ranged AP is because ranged AD can take towers more effectively than any other class of character.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I know and I addressed that. Ziggs and Malz take towers quickly as well though.

Mimy1 votes

i take Teemo as an ap bot when i see mid and top and jungle as AD champions

balances out the ap and ad. so enemies cant build full armor.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

A few good APCs bot lane are Velkoz Brand Cassiopeia Ziggs Lulu Azir

Mimy1 votes

I own lulu and ziggs ill keep them in mind! :) I could also take kennen as an AP

Sasogwa1 votes

AD itemization and the synergies also make those champions more reliant on farm than experience, that's why they're strong in duolane.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

I get why they're strong in duo lane, but they're not the only ones that can go there, and they shouldn't be mandatory. It's the only role that has absolutely no diversity. Top lane can have ap, ad, tank, bruiser, whatever, mid lane can have assassin, ap, ad, tank, bruiser, whatever, jungle has a shit ton of diversity, supports can be damage, tanks, zoning mages, cc machines, etc. Marksman is the only role that's only ADC every game.

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6LEH9EdM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-01T19:03:37.356+0000)

I get why they're strong in duo lane, but they're not the only ones that can go there, and they shouldn't be mandatory. It's the only role that has absolutely no diversity. Top lane can have ap, ad, tank, bruiser, whatever, mid lane can have assassin, ap, ad, tank, bruiser, whatever, jungle has a shit ton of diversity, supports can be damage, tanks, zoning mages, cc machines, etc. Marksman is the only role that's only ADC every game.

Yes, I completely agree. I didn't mean that they aren't ^^ I'm just saying, that current itemization and synergies satisfy this, the fact that Morde, which is more experienced based than item-based, works, is all on his W passive granting exp. I dunno, lanes are very aggressive and AP champions look very item dependant, but at the same time I've seen some double APs bot work pretty well -but they kinda rely on snowballing-

It's really not an easy problem to solve. Also the meta is kinda implanted in people's minds and it would be really hard to change that in general

Mimy1 votes

ive been taking kennen botlane and laugh when their adc is oom.. As i continue to spam abilities.

7ha7guy7771 votes

If Rite of Ruin came back, mages could take turrets pretty effectively

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

TL;DR You don't need changes to ADCs to go APC bot.

ADC isn't a required role for a team, this complaint isn't considering other ways of filling in the role of an ADC. Plus naturally in a competitive game like League of Legends there will always be a defined meta, and what people have preferences for. So trying to embrace diversity in the bot lane with an APC would require Riot to make APCs a better choice for bot lane than an ADC, or just make ADCs better in a different lane. ADCs have a lot of counter play too, and only really shine in competitive 5v5 matches, because the team can make up for the ADC's mistakes and help them with what they can't do, this includes positioning, peeling, etc. If you would like to see a more diverse bot lane people would have to first see a reason for a change in bot lane's role. Although APC bot can work it isn't as good as an ADC. As an ADC you can provide massive damage, this leads to pushing towers, winning team fights, forcing armor itemization, objective control, etc. As an APC, you provide burst or consistent damage, utility, and zoning. For the bot lane it is convenient that an ADC has a power spike mid game, this is when you are going for dragon or mid lane tower. But I guess I see what you are trying to point out, APC can work bot but, this doesn't require changes to current ADC champions. It just requires people picking APC bot.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

The defined meta is 1 top, 1 mid, 1 jungle, 2 bot specifically a support with a carry, it doesn't specify what type of champion goes where. It's not like only bruisers can go top, only mages mid, only gankers in the jungle, only healers as support, and only adc as the carry.

The problem isn't that ADC champs can't go other lanes, they can. Vayne and Quinn top works great, Varus, ezreal, cait, corki, jinx, trist, etc can all go mid lane just fine. The problem is that people see bot lane and think 'I must play an adc no matter what my team comp is and how much better another class might be there.'

Kazaashi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6LEH9EdM,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-10-01T22:13:32.158+0000)

The defined meta is 1 top, 1 mid, 1 jungle, 2 bot specifically a support with a carry, it doesn't specify what type of champion goes where. It's not like only bruisers can go top, only mages mid, only gankers in the jungle, only healers as support, and only adc as the carry.

The problem isn't that ADC champs can't go other lanes, they can. Vayne and Quinn top works great, Varus, ezreal, cait, corki, jinx, trist, etc can all go mid lane just fine. The problem is that people see bot lane and think 'I must play an adc no matter what my team comp is and how much better another class might be there.'

An ADC is not mandatory, just optimal. In a competitive game, people generally choose the most optimal thing to give themselves the highest chance to win.

You can take an APC botlane, but you are just gimping your teams latgame dmg.

Rebonack1 votes

All that's needed to make APCs bottom a thing:

(item 1026+item 3145+item 1043)= Madred's Bloodrazor UNIQUE passive: Your basic attacks deal 3% (+1% per 100 AP) of the target's max HP in magic damage. This passive deals damage to Towers, capping at (amount).

There you go.

Now Mages can take towers too.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

While it would increase their ability to take towers, I doubt most mages would build it. Perhaps autoattack based mages like Ekko or kass, but attack speed is a wasted stat for most mages.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

As always we start out with some momentum in upvotes then get downvoted a bunch. I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread. I'm not trying to make adc obsolete, I definitely want them to have a place in this game. What I don't want is for that place to be mandatory. I want to see games where you don't have an adc because it's not ideal to have one. For example, champ select comes around and your team picks garen top, zed mid, reksai jungle, and leona support, why would you pick an adc in that situation? I see this time and time again, and every time my team or their team picks an adc still, why? Because it's necessary. For whatever reason, be it tower taking or simply because it's so drilled into your heads that you need an adc, you still pick an adc.

Another example, you've got a vayne top, or a varus mid, or a quinn top or whatever adc in any solo lane, why pick another adc bot lane? Clearly your team isn't lacking attack damage. Open your minds, make new team comps, do something new.

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