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Is Vi inherently unbalanced?

HalcyonDweller··5 votes·970 views

In my experience, playing as Vi can be extremely fun, her kit feels impactful and requires at least a modicum of skill to use effectively.

However, I generally believe that having more active abilities in a kit and more counterplay for opponents is important to good champion design.

This leads me to wonder if champions can have 3-hit passives and be well-designed and feel impactful.

It also leads me to wonder if her ultimate should be changed because of its range and unavoidability.

So I ask these questions of you:

  1. Is it poor design to have the 3-hit passive of Denting Blows effect taking up an entire ability slot? Why or why not?

  2. Is her ultimate unfair and too badly lacking in counterplay? if so, should it be changed? And lastly, if it were changed, what possibly could replace it to still deliver on her theme and gameplay fantasy?

I'd like to reiterate that I like Vi as she is, and I'm not necessarily in favor of changing her. Simply expressing my confusion and doubts as I discover that my ideals clash with her kit design. What are your thoughts on the matter?

20 Comments

KoKoboto3 votes

Mao'Kai W is basically Vi ult on a 9s CD. The ability feels pretty outdated in my opinion. I think it should stay relatively the same but it'd be nice if it had some more SUPER BIG POWERFUL ABILITY on it you know?

The 3 hit mechanic is something Rito has talked about in game play, pretty sure it was Ghostcrawler. Something something, 3 hit passive means you as a player need to adjust to the situation whatever to get off that 3rd hit and the enemy can see it and adjust as well yadda yadda yadda. So it is pretty balanced.

Also Vi is one of the seven champion that still has a resist reduction mechanic. Used to be eight but RIP Xin Zhao.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Mao'Kai W is basically Vi ult on a 9s CD. The ability feels pretty outdated in my opinion. I think it should stay relatively the same but it'd be nice if it had some more SUPER BIG POWERFUL ABILITY on it you know?

I see what you mean there, hadn't really thought much about that before. Yeah, if it were change I'd like it to still be something really big and cool. The animation and sound effects are cool, but the effect is kind of lackluster, like you've stated.

The 3 hit mechanic is something Rito has talked about in game play, pretty sure it was Ghostcrawler. Something something, 3 hit passive means you as a player need to adjust to the situation whatever to get off that 3rd hit and the enemy can see it and adjust as well yadda yadda yadda. So it is pretty balanced.

I apologize, I was unclear. I'm not opposed to 3-hit passives. I'm just generally opposed to them taking up an ability slot instead of being part of a champion's inherrent passive.

I play mages and assassins usually because I enjoy having a variety of different abilities to cast and more choices as to which ability to use in a given circumstance. Champions like Vayne waste an entire ability slot on this, leaving them with less options and actions that they can take besides auto-attacking.

Examples of good ways to use 3-hit passives: Old Xin Zhao made up for it by having the active of the ability grant attack speed. Tahm Kench is another example, the 3-hit passive interacts with the rest of his kit, but he still has 3 basic abilities to choose between when deciding what to do.

And now that I think about it Vi partially makes up for this by her E being on an ammo system. But now I wonder if it should maybe be switched with her passive to give her an active ability that offers her a shield. Thematically speaking there is a lot of cool potential there.

Also Vi is one of the seven champion that still has a resist reduction mechanic. Used to be eight but RIP Xin Zhao.

Huh, that's a fun fact if I ever saw one. Thanks!

KoKoboto1 votes

Yeah but 3 hit passives create game play because [rito reasons]. In that sense it's basically having another ability. So I think it is fine.

It's not a fun fact. It's a sad fact, a sad, depressing, and surprisingly agonizing fact.

AFilthyCaitMain2 votes

  1. I think its fine. Its a tankier, less powerful Vayne w but thats ok.

  2. Her ult cd is absurd, thats what balances it.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ah okay then, thank you for contributing.

How do you feel about the keystone that reduces ultimate cooldowns? Will it completely break Vi?

AFilthyCaitMain1 votes

No it definetly wont break Vi. This is because

A. It will take her forever to stack

B. She needs to be tanky late game so she doesnt fall off as hard.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

ok, thanks!

IronwallJackson1 votes

Nah, the opportunity costs for grabbing that rune are significant, given that the inspiration tree gives no direct offensive/defensive boosts. Not only that, but Vi's ult has such a substantial CD that it would take AGES to actually proc the rune and lower that CD substantially enough to matter.

As great as that lowered cooldown would be, I suspect Vi's probably going to want something that more directly impacts her jungling and/or how effectively she can dive, as opposed to how often she can do so.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Thank you for contributing!

Ahris2 votes

Vi is really annoying when she was Meta. IMO basic dashing abilities should be cancellable with any cc(not slow or those stuff)

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ok, I'm not sure I understand what you mean though, can you please elaborate?

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, I'm not sure I understand what you mean though, can you please elaborate?

Vi has one of the strongest ganks in game. Pre 6 she has a Q that does great damage and if it lands it will probably take a good chunk of enemy health.

After 6 she has an ultimate to use when engaging and q saved for the cc or when the enemy flash. I used to remember Vi running from the enemy turret by like flashing first and using ulti. I couldnt even see her until she flashed close enough for her to ulti. That was the horrible days really. Usually it is free kill for Vi's team everytime she ulti on midlane apc.

Mens Hair Club1 votes

Is it poor design to have the 3-hit passive of Denting Blows effect taking up an entire ability slot? Why or why not?

why would it be? not everything needs to be a SUPER BIG POWERFUL ABILITY with insane telegraphs. if anything I'd say we need MORE passive slots, it might have curbed the ridiculous feature-loading if riot hadn't decided against passive slots

Is her ultimate unfair and too badly lacking in counterplay?

counterplay is a meme and the only people who benefit from it are ranged champions. no, it doesn't need to be changed.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

Alright, thank you for your contributions.

If you left a downvote could you please remove it? I'd like to get visibility so that I can glean understanding from more peoples' responses.

Mens Hair Club3 votes

i cant vote, im level 8

chipndip11 votes

Her W and R are kinda...bad for her position in the game in the long run...

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I would say, ironically enough for having two gap closers, Vi suffers from being easily kited. Like playing Vi against a real good Ahri, Vi isn't even going to have a chance.

A good Quinn player could also stomp Vi. So could a good Vayne player. Now it becomes a rant about ADC top, a different discussion.

Ahris1 votes

{quoted}

I would say, ironically enough for having two gap closers, Vi suffers from being easily kited. Like playing Vi against a real good Ahri, Vi isn't even going to have a chance.

A good Quinn player could also stomp Vi. So could a good Vayne player. Now it becomes a rant about ADC top, a different discussion.

Vi counters Ahri pretty hard. You can easy kill her with your ultimate and dash on q. You probably have enough to kill her in your burst as well.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Ahri against Vi is really high-risk reward in my opinion. A good Ahri won't be squishy enough to be taken out by Vi's burst in the first place.

The matchup is one for Ahri to lose.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

She's unVi able

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