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What's the reasoning behind mages like Cassio/Ryze ?

option paralysis·12/9/2019, 12:41:25 PM·6 votes·3,149 views

Cassio hits a Q and EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, you ded. I guess she's gated by mana, but when you get tear, there's almost nothing stopping her to run you down. I don't know how to actually lane against her, other than move around like an idiot to dodge Qs and just get cs and hope someone on your team can kill her.

Same with Ryze... I just saw this dude clear almost 2 waves on lvl 5 with couple of EQ's. Like what ? I slow push the wave so I can back and get items, and the guy just runs the wave down like it's nothing. on lvl 5. Also gated by mana, but you get like 2.5k mana with him later on so it doesn't matter. Ryze is easier to lane against than Cassio, IMO, cuz you can breath at least some of the time in lane, but that wave clear and that EQEQEQEQ spam is annoying and I don't see how is it balanceable - if thats a word.

Only way to win lane is to play someone that one shots them in half a second or what ?

24 Comments

The Dolando12/9/2019, 12:52:47 PM5 votes

i never understood the whole "gated by mana" philosophy.. like do they play the game? they made it nearly impossible to go oom lol

theres also no real alternative to building the mana items cause they made them so good.

Posui Gart12/9/2019, 2:10:47 PM4 votes

Cassio hits a Q and EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, you ded

Any adc hits a rightclick on you and AA-AA-AA-AA-AA-..., you ded You are not supposed to stand still and afk while under Cassio's Q.

I guess she's gated by mana

Early game she is gated by mana, lack of mobility and waveclear. Late game she is gated by her range. She is basically an ADC mage, and is gated by whatever ADCs are gated too.

move around like an idiot to dodge Qs

It's called "dodging", not "moving like an idiot". You know, a skill that is a requirement to be okay midlaner.

RegardsKitty12/9/2019, 1:52:18 PM4 votes

Mana issues are pretty much non-existent in the game. But if Riot removed mana items or actually gated mages with mana, then the whole sheep herd of mage players would flood the boards with how bad the game is and how every other class (usually ADCs) have everything better for them.

Sirsir12/9/2019, 2:46:00 PM3 votes

Mana gating doesn't really exist any more, Tear is too good at its job. It needs Awe to go down to like 5% until upgraded.

R0ses R Red12/9/2019, 2:39:28 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=option paralysis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6ByHxWo1,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-09T12:41:25.671+0000)

Only way to win lane is to play someone that one shots them in half a second or what ?

100% AGREE. The problem arises when you can't even one shot them because of how omega-safe they are.

FSRER12/9/2019, 2:56:33 PM2 votes

Ryze was Riot's first attempt at creating a battlemage...they failed once, twice and now for the third time in a row, they fail. Cassiopeia is also supposed to be a battlemage, a "squishy" champion who deals magic damage but to do that damage she supposedly needs time and she is forced to be close to the enemy team to deal that damage but again, like Ryze, Vladimir and Sylas, they all fail to deliver.

Nyarlathοtep12/9/2019, 2:19:11 PM2 votes

But they are gated behind mana. The problem lies with the numbers themselves. I mean ffs, cass' s spells cost 50 70 50 at rank 1. At rank 5 these increase to 90 110 and chuckles e remains 50. Her bread and butter spell, the one that you cant dodge and deals the most dmg in her kit (yeah yeah it requires multiple casts but you get my meaning) costs a measly 50.

Sure you can nerf the mana items give but you better give mages a way to regain mana (and this time without killing themselves im look at you xerath). Because if what you say comes true (less overall mana in the items) then mages would have no way to outpush assassin during the laning phase or even come close remotely to stop them from shoving (which btw chances are they are rushing zhonyas). And by late game adcs will be able to provide more efficient wave clear than mages, since mages would need to choose between using spells on minions or enemies.

Krys Star12/9/2019, 4:34:43 PM2 votes

Cassiopeia has exploitable weaknesses, however. She's a mid ranged mage, and so long ranged champions can stay out of her range and whittle her down until she's low enough to either kill or force her to recall. If she misses her Q, she either has to waste Miasma, or wait another 5 seconds, which you could take advantage of to either poke her or all-in her if you know you can take her out within that time. She's also susceptible to be being dove on by multiple champions and dying quickly unless her team provides her the protection she needs, since she can only melt one enemy at a time and divers can quickly turn and escape her stun when diving.

Cassiopeia has her weaknesses, and you can take advantage of them, unlike Ryze who bursts you and melts you faster than you could react. He doesn't need to set himself up with a Q, and he only gets tankier as the game progresses (health and armor or MR, unlike Cass who has to build one or the other). Also with the upcoming nerfs to Conqueror, Cassiopeia shouldn't be as oppressive as she is right now. Ryze, on the other hand, is still going to beat you to hell and back even with his upcoming nerf lol.

LuthianDelphi12/9/2019, 4:22:27 PM1 votes

Take short trades, Cassio is DPS and most midlane champs will do their combos quicker than her (Granted hers will do more if she gets all her e's off). If you do your combo and then disengage before she can hit a Q or lock u down w/ W then you'll probably win the trade.

Ryze SHOULD be the same way but he does far more burst then any other ranged magic dps champ (Azir, Cassio, Asol before W change), Really theres not much counter play to that and he should be forced to choose between burst and dps not have both.

RegardsKitty12/10/2019, 10:47:35 AM1 votes

This post is full of typical boards sheep. "Mage good, ADC bad."

vgamedude12/9/2019, 6:08:58 PM1 votes

Ive never understood adcs it's just " right click right click right click" and I'm blown up! They can't even miss

BrokenRayquaza12/9/2019, 3:28:29 PM1 votes

Cassio is like an ap adc. Treat her e like an auto attack and you will be enlightened