Jarvan's QE combo does far too much damage for how much utility Jarvan gives to his team and to himself.
He reduces armor by a whopping 26% He Gives himself Armor and AS and gives other AS He gives vision of an area for 8 seconds He has an AoE slow He has 3.5 seconds of terrain that comes after a massive damage R
Leti the Yeti2 votesI think he has lee sin syndrome u can fk his numbers but the utility is still gonna be here and mad plays are still going to happen lol
Kingsgrave2 votesI think he has lee sin syndrome u can fk his numbers but the utility is still gonna be here and mad plays are still going to happen lol
Mad plays are fine, him doing a fuck ton of damage isn't
ProfDrDeath2 votesActually, no.
250 and 240 are both pretty regular values for rank 5 skill damages, especially on kits that feature only two basic spells that do damage.
Examples, accounting for base AD at level 18:
: 210/315 (mean roughly 260) + 230 (W level 18 base AD only)
: 260 + 240
: 300 + 240 (6 ticks a 40 damage after eating a Q)
: 220 + 250
: 462.6 + 170
: 176.8 + 373.05 (you eat half of spin-to-win's damage).
And these are only base damages, calculated from base damages + base AD ratios.
Plus, J4's flag&drag costs quite some mana, features a lot of opportunity cost and is tied to (albeit quite easy to hit) skillshots.
Is J4 too strong? Yes, definitely. But you shouldn't blame the wrong things for it.
Kingsgrave1 votesActually, no.
250 and 240 are both pretty regular values for rank 5 skill damages, especially on kits that feature only two basic spells that do damage.
Examples, accounting for base AD at level 18:
And these are only base damages, calculated from base damages + base AD ratios.
Plus, J4's flag&drag costs quite some mana, features a lot of opportunity cost and is tied to (albeit quite easy to hit) skillshots.
Is J4 too strong? Yes, definitely. But you shouldn't blame the wrong things for it.
3 of those characters are mages and the other 3 don't have a reliable instant combo that does that 490ish damage with said combo also giving utility, vision and auras.
ProfDrDeath1 votesReliable instant combo - ever played against a canceling-proficient Riven? Dat triple Q + 3x auto sure feels instant to me...
Garen's is fairly reliable, too - if he Qs you, you're going to eat half that E, if you like it or not. Silence guarantees it.
Darius W->Q takes place in a small timeframe, too.
You want some more examples of bruisers/tanks?
How about 
? Q 270 + slow, E 247.6 + AS slow
Or 
? Q 240, W 275, as point&click with attached knock-up/knock-back
? Q 300, W 275, great AP scaling, knock-up, silence
? Q 258, E 280, point&click dash, slow/stun
? Q 340, E 200
Gunpoint2 votesNerf his damage. Problem solves. His utility isn't a problem at all. It has quite a bit of counterplay. The free armor pen etc is just stupid.
Rockman1 votes[deleted]
Kingsgrave2 votesNo.
So you are fine with 490 + 28% Armor reduction + 325 damage on a character that can build full tank?
Rockman1 votes[deleted]
Kingsgrave1 votesYeah. Because the sheer fact you wanna bitch about his E damage means you are hopeless.
He always maxes it second and its part of his main combo. Why wouldn't I complain about it? 240 free magic damage on a vision + armor + AS + knockup utility move is ridiculous.
Rockman1 votes[deleted]
Kingsgrave1 votes"Free"
as I said hopeless
What actual downside do you have to using your QE combo? Sure it literally costs mana but what else about it has a real cost? It increases your AS, it passively gives Armor, it does 130 damage at level 2 and 490 when both are maxed. Its an escape, its an engage. Its relatively low cooldown.
Rockman2 votes[deleted]
Kingsgrave1 votesWhat downside do you have to using Nocturne QE
What downside do you have to using Wukong QE
What downside do you have to using Xin QE
What downside do you have to being a moron?
Xin's QE is delayed and you have to stay on them for at least 3 autos in order to do the full damage and CC Nocturne's QE is delayed and you have to stay on them for at least 3 seconds in order to do the full damage and CC Wukong's QE doesn't have any CC on it and is targeted and a lot less range than Jarvan QE
Jarvan QE is not targeted, is not delayed and does far more damage than all 3 of those combos
Also, Jarvan's QE is AoE and goes over walls reliably and can be used as an escape whereas non of the ones you mentioned are AoE or can be used as an escape or go over walls reliably
Leti the Yeti1 voteshonestly, when i went full tank i got nothing but like 30 assists so i decided to make use of his broken ratios and it was all good...
edit: okay i didnt realize till i brought it up myself jarvan's combo doesnt hit hard at all as many states before, tons of other champions have such combos that do equal or more damage while having utility the REAL reason jarvan is busted is cuz of his bonus ad ratios... "bonus" so you actually have to build ad and not full tank
Gigahappytown1 votesHe has no utility its just raw burst damage lmfao If your using the assassin build your w damage is insane and melts adcs faster then they can melt you
Kingsgrave1 votesHe has no utility its just raw burst damage lmfao If your using the assassin build your w damage is insane and melts adcs faster then they can melt you
"no utility"
AoE Slow 26% Armor Reduction 22% Attack Speed Aura .75 second Knock Up 700 radius range Vision on his Flag 3.5 second terrain that works really well with Vayne and Gnar