Riot kept nerfing Rivens hp regeneration because "she has a Spammable shield, when damage gets through, it should stick." - originally said in the Sejuani patch and every other time her regeneration was nerfed.
Well now that rumble is back to being oppressive as hell he deserves the laning phase nerf too. His shield is just as Spammable as Rivens
Serevas27 votesYou do realize that Riven's Shield in the early game blocks almost twice as much as Rumble's right, not to mention it boasts a 100% AD ratio as well compared to Rumble's 40% of AP?
It's not even close to a proper comparison.
3sTbGoP7ES2 votesIt is 100% Bonus AD, Rumble is 40% AP, not BONUS AP.
AP/AD > Bonus AP/AD.
Bonus AP/AD is the AP/AD you get from buying items.
Serevas3 votesI misread, but there's also no such thing as Bonus AP, as bonus AD refers to all AD in addition to your base statistics, so Runes, Masteries, and Items are all considered bonus AD, and if there were a such thing as Base AP, Runes, Masteries, and Items would be bonus AP.
So the ratio is still 100% to 40% keeping my original point accurate. Since you are capable of building about half as much AD as AP, that means that Riven's Shield is roughly 10% stronger scaling, while still having a higher base to build upon.
Crett1 votesI misread, but there's also no such thing as Bonus AP, as bonus AD refers to all AD in addition to your base statistics, so Runes, Masteries, and Items are all considered bonus AD, and if there were a such thing as Base AP, Runes, Masteries, and Items would be bonus AP.
So the ratio is still 100% to 40% keeping my original point accurate. Since you are capable of building about half as much AD as AP, that means that Riven's Shield is roughly 10% stronger scaling, while still having a higher base to build upon.
Bonus AD doesn't calculate Base AD. Only AD from items, runes, masteries and buffs.
Kuroi861 votesI think he was referring to the base values on their shields, which gives Riven a much higher base unless Rumble is gets his enhanced shield, then his shield gets closer to matching her.
Serevas1 votesThat's literally exactly what I said, reading comprehension is not the strong suit of people on the boards.
In addition does not always mean add it to the base statistics, but can also mean "everything beyond"
Abyssphere14 votes[{quoted}](name=Hi im Dovahkiin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65syVHGO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-07-17T20:45:03.158+0000)
It is 100% Bonus AD, Rumble is 40% AP, not BONUS AP.
AP/AD > Bonus AP/AD.
Bonus AP/AD is the AP/AD you get from buying items.
? You realise the game doesn't have a single "bonus AP" ratio for a reason, right?
Conturbatio3 votesBonus AP = AP because there is no such thing as BASE AP. The bonus AD is the AD you get from runes, masteries, in game items & certain abilities that buff AD, like Janna's shield, riven's ult...etc
gubigubi9 votesIt's not even close to a proper comparison.
The boards balance suggestions all summed up in 1 sentence. @_@
Serevas1 votesI'm learning that very quickly.
Conturbatio3 votes40% ap ratio on the normal shield, and 60% on the enhanced one. Usually a full Rumble build grants 700 AP. That means, the normal shield gives 170 + 700'0.4 = 450, while the enhanced one absorbs 255 + 700'0.6 = 675 damage O.o (shield lasts 2 seconds)
On the other hand, Riven usually builds 
then builds 2 defensive items, granting her [145 + 107(base ad) + 14(masteries) + 15(runes)]'1.05(warlord) = 295 AD. Since Riven's shield scales with 100% BONUS AD, that means she can tank 210(base damage) + (295 - 107) = 398, when her ult is active she gets 295'1.2 = 354 AD, which gives 210 + (354 - 107) = 457 damage absorption (shield lasts 1.5 seconds).
SpecterVonBaren5 votesI find it hilarious that you said Riven's buy two defensive items and that Rumble goes full glass cannon AP.
Conturbatio2 votesEven if Riven goes full AD, she would get around 400 attack damage, resulting in a 210 + (400 - 107) = 503, and 210 + (480 - 107) = 583 (still lower than rumble's enhanced shield). Also, Rivens who go full damage with 0 defense get nuked instantly, and their 1.5 seconds shield won't even help them, once CCed they're dead.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesAnd yet you claim Rumble's go complete glass cannon even though Rumble is a lot less mobile than Riven and doesn't have burst damage.
Serevas2 votesI'll also add in that the OP was complaining about oppressive laning of Rumble, meaning that end game stats wouldn't be relevant in the equation and that you can acquire a lot more AD early for much cheaper than AP, not to mention the stronger early shield anyway. Neither Rumble, nor Riven will max their shield first in 90% of matchups so you're dealing with rank 1 for the stats so the math should really look like this.
Rumble: 
45AP + roughly 26AP from Runes and Masteries at early levels
Normal 50 + 40% of AP ( 50 + 28.4 ) = 78.4
Enhanced 75 + 60% of AP ( 75 + 42.6 ) = 117.6
Riven: 
40 + roughly 23AD from runes and masteries
90 + 100% bonus AD ( 90 + 63 ) = 153
So the comparison is Enhanced Rumble Shield at 117.6 compared to Riven's shield each time of 153, I won't even factor in the extra utility as I believe the dash and the speed bump get you roughly the same distance over their time, and frankly the animation cancelling with the Riven can't quite be quantified.
Jungle Lux God1 votesYou also forgot to mention the fact that Riven how much mobility Riven has to dodge skillshots and stuff.
PL552 votesRumble also silences himself if he spams his abilities too much, Riven won't.
O Fallen Scholar1 votesYou do realize that Riven's Shield in the early game blocks almost twice as much as Rumble's right, not to mention it boasts a 100% AD ratio as well compared to Rumble's 40% of AP?
It's not even close to a proper comparison.
You are forgetting some important information. You have nothing to back up your opinion.
Rumble's shield is 6 seconds at all ranks and also gives movement speed. Riven's shield starts with 10 seconds (adding non-existent health regeneration) and goes down by 1 second every rank (6 seconds at max rank).
Also Rumble's shield is much more powerful (50%) if he maintains 50-90 heat whole time. That beats Riven's early shield and health regeneration by a TON! A fuking TON! And he pokes you because he has two ranged abilities!
Serevas2 votesHey pal, look at the rest of the posts where there's actually math that justifies it before you post and make yourself look like an idiot.
Add to that most Riven players have CDR in their Mastery and Rune pages, plus what gets built to give Riven 40% basically every game into the late game, I know combined I start with 12.5% CDR, Others have scaling CDR that rapidly drops that cooldown to nothing.
Let's do some different math here, according to the math you neglected to look at, Riven's Shield is approximately 35 damage blocked beyond what Rumble's upgraded shield does at early levels. 117 compared to 153
Rumble has about 5 hp5 more than Riven, meaning that every 5 seconds Rumble will heal 5 more hp than Riven will. With Riven's Shield on a 10 second CD compared to a 6 for Rumble, we won't even factor in the CDR. Rumble would block 117 and then heal 10 for a combined benefit of 127. Riven still gets more out of her shield alone remember the number is 153
How's that for backup? Try looking at base stats of those shields before you post as well, since early game oppressiveness was the complaint remember? 75 on Rumble's enhanced shield, which he also gets silenced from using too much anyway, 90 all the time for Riven. Add the scalings and it shows the deviation rather quickly for that early game power
It's still not a proper comparison. Have a nice day.
O Fallen Scholar1 votesHey pal, look at the rest of the posts where there's actually math that justifies it before you post and make yourself look like an idiot.
Add to that most Riven players have CDR in their Mastery and Rune pages, plus what gets built to give Riven 40% basically every game into the late game, I know combined I start with 12.5% CDR, Others have scaling CDR that rapidly drops that cooldown to nothing.
Let's do some different math here, according to the math you neglected to look at, Riven's Shield is approximately 35 damage blocked beyond what Rumble's upgraded shield does at early levels. 117 compared to 153
Rumble has about 5 hp5 more than Riven, meaning that every 5 seconds Rumble will heal 5 more hp than Riven will. With Riven's Shield on a 10 second CD compared to a 6 for Rumble, we won't even factor in the CDR. Rumble would block 117 and then heal 10 for a combined benefit of 127. Riven still gets more out of her shield alone remember the number is 153
How's that for backup? Try looking at base stats of those shields before you post as well, since early game oppressiveness was the complaint remember? 75 on Rumble's enhanced shield, which he also gets silenced from using too much anyway, 90 all the time for Riven. Add the scalings and it shows the deviation rather quickly for that early game power
It's still not a proper comparison. Have a nice day.
People can't compare different champions with different kits anyways. Makes no sense.
Mandang014 votesSure, as long as you make spellvamp anywhere near as strong as lifesteal.
HateDaddy3 votesSure, as long as you make spellvamp anywhere near as strong as lifesteal.
You have two options with rumble
You nerf his damage, which very well be the best option given the fact his two core items were massively buffed. But nerfing damage is always dangerous, it's a risk of completey trashing a champion. Or you nerf him in other areas to make weaknesses (lack of innate sustain) more exploitable. Neither avenue is an assured success but either way you slice it, Rumble needs nerfs.
Transgressor5 votesNo, the only thing he needs is clear windows of engagement. His overheat is not enough, since his autos do extra damage while you're trying to take advantage of his inability to cast, you need high auto dammage to trade his magic damage on hit, or high enough burst to dish before he goes back to normal, high enough to make it worth since he'll just outrade when he gets back his casts. Besides, his only trading tool automaticaly pushes the lane towards your favor(unless you're stupid to eat his E to the face).
HateDaddy1 votesNo, the only thing he needs is clear windows of engagement. His overheat is not enough, since his autos do extra damage while you're trying to take advantage of his inability to cast, you need high auto dammage to trade his magic damage on hit, or high enough burst to dish before he goes back to normal, high enough to make it worth since he'll just outrade when he gets back his casts. Besides, his only trading tool automaticaly pushes the lane towards your favor(unless you're stupid to eat his E to the face).
Right it's a good thing rumble can't harass you well under tower
Oh
Transgressor1 votesRight it's a good thing there are no items nor champions that can effectively counter his minimal magic damage early on, good thing there are no champions that won't even get to the point of giving rumble the early advantage he needs for his damage to get relevant later.
Oh
Ice Cold Waz1 votesYou nerf his damage, which very well be the best option given the fact his two core items were massively buffed. But nerfing damage is always dangerous, it's a risk of completey trashing a champion. Or you nerf him in other areas to make weaknesses (lack of innate sustain) more exploitable. Neither avenue is an assured success but either way you slice it, Rumble needs nerfs.
What two items? Liandry's and Rylai's? Because Rumble doesn't actually build Rylai's that often, unless you mean Zhonyas
Dr Poro6 votesBut his shield doesn't soak as much as riven's does. That said, nerfing hp regen might be a good approach.
Knight SoIaire 6 votesalso rumble cant just wreck anything he finds
op dont guide yourself by riots explanations ... they make crap up to make them look better in the eyes of player
riven was an op crap and that was the nerf they chose for her ... doesnt mean that rumble needs the same nerf ... mainly because rumble isnt broken ... he is opressive early but gets weaker late ... also players have options to effectively deal with rumble ... like forcing a fight when he has no heat ... or baiting him into pushing the wave to your tower and calling your jungler
meanwhile riven can faceroll you ... even worse if she knows how to propertly faceroll with riven ... then there is barely any chance to defeat her and she is going to only get stronger
redniwediS4 votesThe funny thing is most champions who can easily handle Riven end up in a Riven-like scenario when against Rumble, so depending on what type of champion you main either the OP or you can be completely accurate.
AyRe CoNteMpT4 votesrumble ever was oppressive as hell? like, i dont remember any moment in time in the history of mankind that there was written in stone "rumble oppressive laner"
Conturbatio1 votesIdk why, but I find Rumble annoying as heck to lane against, meanwhile I can rape Riven whenever I want.
AyRe CoNteMpT1 voteswell, there you have the next thing you can learn to get better at the game then.
Yorukin3 votesExcept that Rumble's shield is a LOT smaller than Riven's, doesn't come with a quick reposition (minion blocking OP), is often used to manage his heat in much the same vein as Annie's "shield", and can't be used if he overheats. Rumble is obnoxious in lane, but once the teamfights break out he starts to fall off pretty hard, being reduced to a walking ult with some chasing and dueling power.
brad3 votesremember kids, dont reply to falcon pawnch threads
manliestdino2 votesFirst of all. Nerfing health regen on an ap champion who builds no sustain whatsoever besides health pots, unlike an ad champion, who can build lifesteal, and most do, is not a good comparison when comparing Rumble and Riven. He's already super weak to ganks and if the Rumble accidently pushes he only has flash, He might get away with his move speed shield, but that's unlikely. His normal build doesn't build cdr. Riven does, and Riven will. If they were to nerf Rumble, I would say make him more open to ganks by removing his bonus movement speed. Not by nerfing his hp regen, when he has no sustain.
Abyssphere1 votesI don't feel like this is the right nerf for him. It might be but I feel like there are other things to look at with him.
Transgressor1 votesRiven has a spammable shield on top with legitimate sustain before the nerfs. Add items to that, and she became overbaring. With the nerfs they gutted her sustain, to the point she needs items now, thus having to count on her shield for survivability.
Rumble can only use spell vamp, which is nowhere near as good as lifesteal, not to mention his shield just doesn't get as strong as riven's no matter how much ap he has. Spell vamp is inferior both in power and in use, being more effective against multiple squishy targets than single units the way lifesteal works. That means he will contantly have to go back and Q minions. He already HAS to push the lane if he is to trade any damage, now he has to push to sustain?
You're wrong, and your argument is bad. Rumble is hella obnoxious, but oppressive? If he is oppressive, then what are Darius Garen, Lulu and Ryze?
ChaoticPinecone1 votesThe elephant in the room is that Rivens E cancels her R/W cast times. She would be fine with her old HP Regen and her shield strength if she wasnt able to cast half her abilities in the duration it takes to dash forward with her E. That way you have time to react and put on some meaningful damage while her animations are casting.
Rumble doesnt have that problem. He isnt going to CC you then burst you down before you can react.
Rockman1 votesThey aren't the same thing.
