It is going to take a lot of work to fix league

AirKingNeo··49 votes·2,156 views

I do not believe anything in League right now can be fixed within a patch. The game is too far messed up for Riot to really fix any of the core issues in one patch, or at least I doubt they can based on recent progression. I firmly believe they probably have no clue what the fuck is wrong in the game down to what should be changed.

That leaves us here to talk about the game. I know the boards have been angry and have lost all temper with Riot Live Design starting with such sheer lack of ability with Ardent Censer and then not even fixing the game at all during the preseason they prepared for in place of fixing Season 7. That's a good thing. The balance team should be held accountable for their failure. Worse, they haven't apologized. How is anyone here supposed to trust them if they don't even display the fact they've made a mistake let alone realize it?

That leads to another issue. Riot not knowing what the problems are means patches don't do anything and Meddler starts talking about buffing Yi and Tryndamere rather than fix real issues like top lane still bleeding even after 7.24b, the imbalance in runes, and lack of viable rune pages for champions. The boards are very, very, very vocal about what are issues. Doesn't matter how well-spoken or rude it is said, people here do speak something about balance. However, Riot made the mistake of not listening to their people, and now these people are angry. Who wouldn't get angry at people with the responsibility to keep the game together that are failing and refusing to listen to any voice, whether it was reason or rage?

Riot shouldn't be surprised their community is angry. Every great revolution in history begins with a ruler who doesn't listen, often careless. Riot is the mother country, the king. It is their responsibility to fix the mess they started. They can start by doing the antithesis to the causation of this: Conversing in real, down to Earth conversation about the game without fear.

I want you to ask someone why they think Yasuo is broken rather than a detailed response that shows professionalism. Have no fear of being mocked for ignorance; draw their opinion from them. Ignore the rage and fire you may face; it is more important to fix this mess than care about being mocked. You can't just have 1 or 2 persons doing this; you must have many people just to prove you are willing to actually converse. Of course, you can't just talk. You must walk! Bring up the discussion of rune imbalance and prove yourself.

Talk with people, not down to people.

82 Comments

Death by Glamour27 votes

I wouldnt say i lost temper with them, i have certainly lost faith in their ability to balance them game or even listen to the players. I dont know what they are trying to do with this game, make it fast paced so you can play more games or allow those on time constraints to play. It wont work as hots simply does this better with muliple game modes to boot and not having to be stuck in a lane csing for 10mins. Thats not why i first chose to play this game and i wont continue to do so as hots is better at the shorter games.

We will soon see what they have in store but this is the last chance i am giving the game and i am not prepared to wait several more months for them to attempt to balance this crap, i waited an entire season for them to bring balance now. So they either get this ready for 8.1 or im off to another game

General Esdeath 1 votes

I already bought PUBG and CSGO in preparation for it. I really don't trust them, at this point I'm here for the ride to season 8.

Ahristocats20 votes

you know there is something wrong when preseason went from november 7 to january 15 (longest preseason THAT EVER happened) and we didn't fixe what should be fixed

the only thing that got "fixed" was Sona being gamebreaking, and corki being put back in his place Ezreal is still an issue katarina is too strong Ornn is so ....

Renekton is one of the worst champions in the game right now

but it's fine, because buffing Tryndamere MasterYi was the priority

preseason is such an awful experience no one plays rankeds, matchmaking becomes so terrible and matches d3 players with master tier players you have autofilled players in every games

i had this terrible experience for TWO MONTHS unlike other season, for what? for nothing we really didn't fixe that much

Sun Wu Ryuumoku5 votes

i agree with most.... But still Ardent was fixed (yeah it shouldn't lasted so long to begin).

Renekton being the worst champ in the game isn't true (voli) and wouldn't even be an issue.

Oxyrotten2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5wzx5LEq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-01-04T11:06:24.962+0000)

i agree with most.... But still Ardent was fixed (yeah it shouldn't lasted so long to begin).

Renekton being the worst champ in the game isn't true (voli) and wouldn't even be an issue.

Nunu has something to say about that.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku7 votes

Nunu is bad since his last nerf... volibear is garbage since age

LordGeovanni1 votes

Volibear is garbage since constant defensive and health item nerfs (while crit and ap item buffs) aka the things that he scales with. his damage scales with health we on our 4th overall health nerf and no compensation to volibear w and when defensive items had more stats volibear could afford one to two damage item either item 3153 or item 3124 because people werent popping you through your passive.

LordGeovanni1 votes

TahmKench do we still play him just to save allies when they guted his health scaling damage and his ult is absolutely uselss because allies dont listen to pings. because i can play Nunu just to speed up adcs and fighters the bad part about it is that they dont trust you until the enemy is too fed then blame it on you other than that he is very manageable. (tahm kench is a free gank on the enemy when ever jungle comes he just has to go in the tri bush, jungler jump in his ult behind enemies and sandwich with 3v2)

Oxyrotten1 votes

{quoted}

TahmKench do we still play him just to save allies when they guted his health scaling damage and his ult is absolutely uselss because allies dont listen to pings. because i can play Nunu just to speed up adcs and fighters the bad part about it is that they dont trust you until the enemy is too fed then blame it on you other than that he is very manageable. (tahm kench is a free gank on the enemy when ever jungle comes he just has to go in the tri bush, jungler jump in his ult behind enemies and sandwich with 3v2)

It was a joke because nunu is undoubtedly the worst champ in the game currently. Tahm got nerfed pretty hard, but is still manageable and the fact that he can pop his e twice in a single fight keeps him decent. As well as his utility will always be useful. Nunu is just in a weak state is all.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Remember ardent censer meta (as if ardent censer decided the meta over high base ad adcs with in kit attack speed and ad boosts) Nunu has double the buff in 1 ability and takes away equal the value in his e and r each

From level 1 adcs need to have 200 less hp than other classes if that has to be done by giving other classes more hp thats okay they also need to not scale in ad per level much and get it through items. they also need to revert crit strike chance increase in season4-5

Ahristocats6 votes

i said renekton is one of the worst champions

also ardent was fixed before pre-season

General Esdeath 1 votes

Ardent was only fixed after they saw worlds and realized that pro-play was also affected by it. Less flashy plays = quick fix solutions.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

they already know this shit before worlds imo... sadly

Oxyrotten1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5wzx5LEq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-04T10:16:29.154+0000)

you know there is something wrong when preseason went from november 7 to january 15 (longest preseason THAT EVER happened) and riot didn't fixe anything in that preseason

how sad it is?

the only thing that got "fixed" was Sona being gamebreaking, and corki being put back in his place Ezreal is still an issue katarina is so hilarious Ornn is so stupid to play against

Renekton is one of the worst champion in the game right now

but it's fine, because meddler decided that buffing Tryndamere MasterYi was the priority

preseason is such an awful experience no one plays rankeds, matchmaking becomes so terrible and matches d3 players with master tier players you have autofilled players in every games

i had this terrible experience for TWO MONTHS unlike other season, for what? for nothing because nothing was fixed

so sad

Wait WHAT!?! Tryndamere is getting a buff??!?!

Link plz!

Abibyama2 votes

They had some pretty big changes like grasp rework and BC changes on the pbe but then they decided to scrap it at the last minute

But yeah so sad that Dyrus is done with preseason and spamming VR chat now

Jasiwel4 votes

Katarina and Akali are problem children right now for a lot of players due to how Electrocute allows them to 100-0 you (or come close) through Magic Resist with no Magic Penetration. All they need is a Hextech Revolver. It's even worse because raising a point about it is often greeted with "just CC her" or "you didn't have Flash". Electrocute needs to be toned down in some manner as a result because it violates the desired directive Riot communicated saying they don't want Assassins to have entirely "do or die" play patterns. Otherwise, the situation is arguably no better than pre-nerf instakill Rengar.

Ezreal's problems at this point are more relative to how well he exploits Kleptomancy; just make Kleptomancy require an extra auto-attack without condition and it becomes much healthier. If it becomes an issue where Melee champions are impacted negatively, make that clause Ranged-only.

In my opinion, Triumph and Coup De Grace are design mistakes where Riot didn't learn enough from their past Mastery iterations. Triumph is cheap and blatantly overpowered in too many situations. Coup De Grace borders invisible power, and is picked at least 90% of the time over its other two counterparts.

I legitimately cringed when they stated buffing Tryndamere and Yi is on the table for next patch. Tryndamere needs extensive work (old kit, unhealthy history) and Master Yi does not need a buff (6% PR, 48% WR, 54% after 50+ games) given how many other champions are borderline unplayable at the moment. Run Press the Attack on either and the 3rd Proc will make up for whatever deficiency they have damage-wise.

Ornn and super tanks in general need to lose something. Probably damage. Also, as someone who has played a good bit of Top lane this Pre-Season, I want to throw out there that maybe Second Wind might be too strong.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

This is a pretty good post.

Tanks are kind of hard to measure though. Yes they seem strong but how do you fix it? Take away there damage threat? then people walk around them and treat them no mind. Take away there tankyness? Then they get shred and become pointless to play.

I hate all assassins currently, not just Akali and Kat. Akali can be dealt with fairly easily, while Kat just triple kills your team in the blink of a eye. Electrocute on Zed, and Talon is also pretty ridiculous

We also haven't touched on the ADC problem children, like Vayne, Draven, and Twitch. Not just Ezreal.

Jasiwel2 votes

Tanks definitely have that issue, but Ornn and Maokai are primary examples of "too much damage, CC, and survivability." They effectively remind me of Season 7 post-buff Cho'Gath with Righteous Glory and Gargoyle Plate...only that they don't need either to break your face in. You could also argue they don't even need the damage, given how long they survive and how much CC they provide.

Electrocute needs to be toned down, then Assassins can be dealt with individually. Katarina needs to be toned down badly. Akali is difficult to deal with if you have high CDs early and she is carrying Electrocute; MR won't save you and she has to make mistakes (or be bad) to lose if you are playing an immobile Mage. Realistically, she has too much all-in potential post-6 and way too much innate sustain given her scaling burst on top of the weaker defensive stats for squishy champions.

I don't have issues with Zed, but then again I haven't played against a decent one in ages. Same applies to Talon, though he's famous for being able to kill a carry in less than a second w/Electrocute (same with Diana).

Vayne needs to be nerfed badly. Not just toned down, but flat nerfed. She has a higher winrate and pickrate than Ezreal. If this thread were about her, I'd go into more detail, but if Ezreal is second to anyone then that champion needs heavy tweaking. Miss Fortune is similar in a sense, though I think people are learning how to tear her apart again. Draven is simply strong due to being buffed over time and finally having a good meta to use those buffs; I personally don't have issues with him (then again I play Corki, Varus, Xayah).

Twitch is still not nerfed, waiting for everyone else to be nerfed so he can be Marksman Rengar again.

LordGeovanni1 votes

still dont think it was sona being game braking just that she had a high winrate which is where easy champions are supposed to be if you trying to make champions like yasou and riven have a 52% winrate

MrHaZeYo7 votes

I agree, make a AP version for QSS!

AirKingNeo2 votes

Ok, everyone here understands. You're a mage main; you're really biased.

You don't need to keep telling the world by saying things like give mages another strong active as if Hourglass wasn't strong enough.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Lol I thought it'd be funny honestly, and it was XD.

Your also biased against mages lets be real.

I play a healthy variety of all champions spanning most lanes with top and support being the least common.

AP QSS wouldn't hurt the game, AD have strong actives/passives as well.

On topic, I do agree with your post, I just don't bitch about the game, I deal with what I can control and enjoy it as i go. League is still as fun as it was when I started in Season 3, and it's been as fun all in between to me.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I am not biased against mages. I'm biased against auto win degenerates like Jayce and Pantheon.

I'm just a voice of reason against the boards saying, "MaGes ArE wEAk!!!" while I proceed to see mages being somewhat overtunned with Liandyr's and Morello.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Ya, you perceive mages as overturned because at this point they have to build Morello and Liandyrs to be effective. But when a mages job should arguably be to burst down the ADCs whose job should be to shred tanks in the Triangle and they (mages) can't really do it anymore then they do need some sort of help.

Again as someone who plays a lot of mages but also plays a lot of Tanks and ADCs (and Fighters and Assassins), A lot of time anymore I feel I can no longer do my job because ADCs can burst me faster then I can burst them which is pretty messed up. Specially since a lot of my burst comes in the form of skill shots where as their Burst DPS comes in the form of point and click. At two items sure I can beat a ADC (most) but then at 3 they all of a sudden can out burst me just as fast, you don't find that messed up?

You say your a voice of reason, and while again I do agree with the main point of this thread, you argued with me the other day saying most AD items are class effective but then go and group all AP champions together when that's really just not the case.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Mages can burst ADCs fine. The issue is supports make ADCs immortal.

MrHaZeYo2 votes

While yes Supports do make ADCs immortal, but you seemed to miss most of the post lol. Why should ADCs get to do burst dps from a mile away point and click? While burst mages need to land skill shots and even then if their combo can't 100-0 the ADC it doesn't really matter what items they have, they'll get burst dps'd down before their basic damage ability comes back much less their basic ability damage burst combo.

Even without looking at what support is babysitting them, they have fair more items to handle burst magic damage then AP/Mages have to deal with AD damage in general.

A ADC can viably build item 3072 and item 3156 (While I know you will argue how unviable this item is on ADCs, it's really not, it's been built on them for a long time as a anti burst item, it doesn't hurt their overall damage enough to make them not want to build it if they have to). Furthermore these two items could be built together and even throw in a item 3046 to help negate some more damage. A build of item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3072 item 3036 item 3156 and if the game got long enough they could sell their boots for another item 3086 item.

item 3139 item 3812 item 3111 can also be viably subbed in somewhere. Obviously you wouldn't want more then 1 or two of any of these items, but honestly 2 BT/PD are enough to help you survive a burst combo, while BT will fill you back up in time for a basic burst combo (most burst champions need their ult to come close to a 100-0) .

Mages/Ap Assassins get item 3157 and some HP items. I spose some can use the item 3048 shield but none of that is going to be enough to save you if you don't kill em fast enough. We covered that mages are over tuned with Morello and Liandyrs but if a Mage for whatever reason has to go a different second item, by the time third item Liiandyrs comes in, it's going to be pretty much to late. We throw in supports such as Janna, Lulu and Nami and even at the two item spike Mages lose. (or a tank with Face of the Mountain, Locket, and Knights (or 2 of the 3)

I'm ok with ADCs being late game power houses, but late game for them is coming far to early and either ADCs/Supports need nerfs across the boards or Mages/Fighters need buffs across the board, The AP itemization hasn't come soon enough.

AirKingNeo1 votes

In what world is an ADC building BT and Maw in the same build? 3 Crit, Armor pen, 1 defensive.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

In a world where they would need to? Like I said it wasn't all that uncommon prior to season 7. The fact that the can get by without a real defensive item is telling enough that Mages and even Assassins can't do their jobs efficiently anymore. There's a reason that 8 times out of 10, the winning bot lane decides who wins the game. It shouldn't be this way, at all.

I like how I can write a entire comment, but you don't even comment on any of it, yet say you want to have a discussion about the state of the game. I've brought up valid points and you choose to ignore them then have the audacity to downvote me lol. Notice how in two threads I never downvoted you once lol,

You call me bias for AP/Mages, but you've been nothing but bias against them, seems kind contradicious (making this word up mwha). You seem to not be able to have a level headed conversation about them. ADC is my 2nd/3rd most played role, I understand just how strong they've been for going on a year. They rarely fall out of flavor (Really the game needs them to at least not be weak). I enjoy the position and the roster of ADCs, but we're getting to a point that ADCs and Supports need to be tweaked down or Fighters, Mages, and Assassins need tweaked up. I'd rather go for the former and not the latter.

We can talk about tanks to if you want, but notice how I'm a "bias AP Mage main" and I'm not complaining about the role that realistically should be countering me. Mages (all AP users really outside of Azir, Teemo, and Cassio) struggle to kill takes, because it isn't their job, while once ADCs get going they have more then the capabilities to shred a full super tank in a matter of seconds. That's messed up when a Mage and a Assassin (and really a Fighter/Diver as well) can't delete a ADC meaning they can no longer do their jobs meaning ADCs and Supports are over tuned.

Everyone is saying how tanks are busted and deal to much damage currently, which is kind of messed up seeing how their damage massively falls off while building full tank, they're damage should be moderate during the early/mid and that's what it is. Late game a tank isn't going to 1v1 anyone, as they shouldn't. Tanks damage would also be fixed if all other classes received base Armor/MR buffs that they lost with the rune changes, but then we come back around to the Mages, Assassins, and Fighters would really struggle against bot laners more so then they already are. We could just flat out nerf tank damage or tankyness but then we would just ruin them and we'd be back to the chaotic world of League of Damage. Although this might in turn nerf ADCs who would lose most forms of peel at the highest level as a Lulu and Janna aren't going to be able to block out a carry from Top, JG, and Mid bull rushing the ADC.

Like you said, League can't be fixed in one patch, it's prolly going to take half a year, but Riot doesn't want League balanced. That would make for a stale game, These changes change the climate of the game, these vast changes create chaos and excitement. There will always be people who enjoy certain metas and hate others. The ones who hate a certain meta will complain while those who like it or are indifferent will stay quiet so it creates a illusion that everyone always hates the game.

So please give me another one line response in a topic where YOU want to talk about the game.

[sg-ahri-2]

AirKingNeo1 votes

Huh? There was never a time in League's history after season 5 where ADCs could build Maw and BT at the same time unless the opposing team had no frontline champion.

Actually, you could probably balance league in like 7-10 patches for the most part.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Lol, you must've been blind during Season 6 then.

7-10 patches would almost be half a year just fyi.

Again, good work covering the whole post. I'm just going to assume you agree with everything else I've said.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Season 6 they build 3 crit or Rageblade + 2 crit, last whisper, and defensive item.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Whatever you say man lol. I told you would argue about it but at the end of the day your so transfixed on that one sentence that you totally let the rest of it blow over your head. In Season 6 ADs built Maw because Mages were actually OP and they needed the shield to survive the burst on top on the BT shield. You deal 0 damage if you're dead.

Violet Fields1 votes

{quoted}

I agree, make a AP version for QSS!

There should be an AP version of Hexdrinker.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

While I do agree, we should work for a AP QSS 1st.

Don't worry AirKingNeo and his anti mage bias will be here to tell you how wrong you are shortly.

WiegrafOfValor4 votes

I can fix the game in one patch, most ppl here also can do a pretty good job, because we don't have an agenda + we know the issues ppl post on the boards.

Newbie1287495 votes

balancing is a LOT harder than people realize

WiegrafOfValor3 votes

Lot easier that rioters want you to believe, I think every other moba do a better job than riot in case of balance.

We only have a tenth of the champion pool playable, and half of it considered meta.

Newbie1287492 votes

you have to balance every champion around every other champion in the game, if they're going to go full glass cannon or full tank, test if they have too much synergy with runes, test if they're too strong in a different position than intended and/or if they're too weak in the intended position as well as a bunch of different factors

General Esdeath 1 votes

I think it's easy to get to a decent state compared to what we have now. A few number tweaks, an Ezreal rework, a Volibear rework, some bug fixes, and we're gucci.

Abibyama2 votes

Inb4 Rito bombards the pbe with a metric ton of changes.

But yeah I don’t see them fixing stuff till midseason or pre worlds or post worlds or next preseason

Ralanr3 votes

It definitely will be slow, progression in league actually takes a lot longer than people realize.

Good progression, not “Lets throw in three reworks that are slightly overbuffed before worlds” progression as with the juggernauts.

AirKingNeo2 votes

League isn't progressing. That's the issue.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

Sure it is. It's not standing still, and it's just progressing in a way a lot of people don't want it to.

Horse Grenades2 votes

They do that every patch.. they patch a shit ton of stuff then when it makes someone busted they nerf the champ and not the shit that made them busted in the first place

Ayanami3rd1 votes

^ This.

"Oh, Ez, Sona and some other champs abuse Kleptomancy!" - "Let's nerf the champs then!" - "Shouldn't we be fixing the newly introduced rune instead of neutering a long-term healthy champion?" - "Don't be ridiculous. That would actually make sense. Get this man out of here!"

AirKingNeo3 votes

HA! FIXING STUFF PREWORLDS! Don't make me laugh. "We can't change it because competitive." "We're preparing for next season."

Meanwhile like 5-6 champions are pick ban and unchanged currently.

MrHaZeYo4 votes

I think that was Ralanr's point, when they did the Jug update it ruined worlds that year. When they didn't hit Ardent it runined worlds.

In a world filled with a lot of different minded people, Riot can never win, and honestly can't really lose either.

General Esdeath 2 votes

Maybe Riot should stop trying to make a quick fix the patch before worlds and instead FIX THIS SHIT BEFORE WORLDS IS AROUND THE CORNER INSTEAD OF LETTING IT HAPPEN FOR 5 MONTHS.

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