Anivia Brand and Swain all deserved a nerf

Divewing··6 votes·944 views

There. I said it. But for the love of god what is wrong with all of you? Brand's getting his mana costs hit, not by much, on 1 ability. Anivia's timing windows are getting trimmed. Swain's getting his root turned into a duration-scaler.

First of all: -Should brand be able to spam W carelessly? No. -Can he as of live? Kinda. -Is the mana cost nerf too big to turn this into an ability he cannot afford to miss? No. Brand's nerf is fair.

Second: -Are Anivia's timing windows too big? Not really -Are they too small? Definitely not -Will this only effect Anivia relative to the player's ability? Yes Anivia's nerf is fair.

Lastly: -Is Swain's early level Nevermore duration too long? Meh -Is a shorter root going to stop him from being able to use his abilities? Unlikely, again is relative to player skill -Is the level 2/3-13 time period too long for a shorter root to hurt Swain too much? No Swain's nerf is probably the only one that's even mildy questionable, and even then there's not really too much of an issue with it, if there is, it can always get Elised and bumped up at earlier levels.

With that of the way why are you up in arms over this? I don't deny it's pretty sad that Riot jumps on these 3 near instantaneously, but watches Mr Egghead-no-risk be not-not-meta forever and 5 days, and Yasuo rip things apart only to give us the good ole "We're keeping an eye on them". But does that make these nerfs unwarranted? Does these champion's pick rates make these nerfs unwarranted?

Here's what I think about these 3, and I won't lie, I've played a bit of Brand and Anivia, and haven't willingly played swain, but here's my experience from vsing them

Brand: Stun is too long early levels considering e is targeted and instant (I'd be 100% OK with 1.5 seconds-2, or even 2.25 from lvl 1-5)

Anivia: Un-assassinateable, must be poked down or 3+v1 dove. Obnoxious crit damage and waveclear, moreso than probably needed even if it's her gimmick (kinda biased? I never fail to struggle to put this bird to the ground, and maybe if i only played 3 champions it'd be unreasonable to use this, but I've tried at least 7-8 of my main picks against her, nothing is easier than the rest offensively, the only differences are defensively)

Swain: How am I supposed to kill you? (Legit like.... I've only done this on yasuo, likely because no resource to worry about)

I think a lot of you are getting upset not because it upsets you, but because you think it should. But whatever, sheep will be sheep, I would know I'm from New Zealand.

11 Comments

TeCoolMage6 votes

They already lost mana potions and had their item costs increased, Riot should've at least given 3 or 4 patches to make sure.

And it's possible to give a nerf to the right champion at the right time in all the wrong places, Brand, if he needed a nerf, should've gotten a nerf in cooldown, or damage in his W, not in his mana cost after all the mana changes. And you specifically complained about his stun duration, which has nothing to do with these changes.

I didn't see anything about this, but Anivia having less timing didn't change anything related to assassinations except making it more frustrating for less skilled players and lowering the skill floor when most complaints come from playing against people who know how to shut down assassins well.

I've played Brand in season 5 and he didn't feel too powerful compared to Malzahar or Xerath, and Anivia is in my pool of main champions.

I've never played Swain but I've played against him, he's out DPSd by ADCs and is weak to burst, and his root is delayed. If you're right and he can't actually be killed easily, why is his emergency peel and combo enabling ability merged and not his main sustain?

Their nerfs are unfair.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

They lost mana pots...but most mages had some more of their mana pool frontloaded to level 1.

On top of that, there are two factors that are usually ignored when someone is talking about mages and mana:

  • item 1056 had its mana regen turned from flat 3 Mp5 to +50% Mp5. For all champions save Ryze and Lissandra, this is at worst a neutral change at level 1. At level 3 and beyond, every champion gets more mana regen from Doran's than before.
  • Meditation. This mastery, which previously was high enough in utility to not allow you to go 21 in offense, is now accessible to every mage. It restores 1.5% of your missing mana every 5 seconds. To put that into perspective: That is 75% of Mana Font, aka the Chalice passive. And it does not take up an item slot.
TeCoolMage1 votes

I agree with you,

Meditation is by far the best mastery along with the CDR cap increase, and bandit. I wouldn't be surprised if they made these the top tier keystone masteries eventually. Sadly, these masteries are also good for all champions except some of the resourceless ones.

+50% mana regen requires 6 base MP5, which like you said is all champions except Lissandra and Ryze. I do prefer starting with boots, though, and faerie charms (2 of them means 50% mana regen for 250 gold, which is a lot cheaper and I don't have to sell it later on, and 4 potions.). Sadly most mages don't really gain much except the support mids like Karma, but this change is mostly neutral.

I would prefer if they followed this up with general mage buffs, I understand if these mages were more powerful than say Lux or Vel'Koz, but right now I think all mages are weak compared to AD casters and ADCs. As a mostly AP champion main, playing Ashe ADC is much easier now and I have a much better chance of carrying.

BastionKross2 votes

With that of the way why are you up in arms over this? I don't deny it's pretty sad that Riot jumps on these 3 near instantaneously, but watches Mr Egghead-no-risk be not-not-meta forever and 5 days, and Yasuo rip things apart only to give us the good ole "We're keeping an eye on them".

This is it. It's mostly not the nerfs themselves, it's that Riot took one glance at these champions and brought the nerf bat down. But when it comes to favorites like Yasuo? "Keep an eye on him" "Wait and see" "Need time to gather more data". The favoritism is getting pretty blatant recently; it has been ever since that mysterious Lee ult buff just before worlds.

Divewing1 votes

That's kinda the point though. People seem to be getting really hung up on nerfs that aren't that bad on champions that have legitimate reasoning to be nerfed, rather than the quick decisions made that led to it.

BastionKross3 votes

They're definitely not as popular as Yas or Trynd, even after the new masteries debuted. They might have needed nerfs, I'm not going to argue that. But it's very suspicious that some popular champs always seem to get away with things while unpopular champs can't.

It's not the nerfs, it's the principle. Either treat all your champs the same, or admit that some champs get to be too powerful longer because of their popularity. Riot seems to be doing neither, and it's coming off as them trying to hide blatant favoritism. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

Trídent2 votes

I think the main reason is they nerf all these champs, but do absolutely nothing about champs like Yasuo, who actually are causing quite a lot of pain

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

I think the main reason is they nerf all these champs, but do absolutely nothing about champs like Yasuo, who actually are causing quite a lot of pain

Becauae Yasuo takes skil unlike Anivia.

He is a bullshit champion but 10 times harder to play than anivia.

KłedGod1 votes

I wont lie I dont play brand but playing against him is annoying as hell. He doesnt really run out of mana and the damage he does with 2 spells is insane. So now im just playing the i hope i dodge spells game and hoping i dont loose half my life or more from 2 hits game during lane phase.

I rarely play swain but when i do i only get the joy of yelling bird noises when i ult and terrorize people. he has really good sustain, damage, and once you get roa, and a tear you just spam your ult and 1v2 or 1v3 people because your probably already fed.

Lowel1 votes

{quoted}

There. I said it. But for the love of god what is wrong with all of you? Brand's getting his mana costs hit, not by much, on 1 ability. Anivia's timing windows are getting trimmed. Swain's getting his root turned into a duration-scaler.

First of all: -Should brand be able to spam W carelessly? No. -Can he as of live? Kinda. -Is the mana cost nerf too big to turn this into an ability he cannot afford to miss? No. Brand's nerf is fair.

Second: -Are Anivia's timing windows too big? Not really -Are they too small? Definitely not -Will this only effect Anivia relative to the player's ability? Yes Anivia's nerf is fair.

Lastly: -Is Swain's early level Nevermore duration too long? Meh -Is a shorter root going to stop him from being able to use his abilities? Unlikely, again is relative to player skill -Is the level 2/3-13 time period too long for a shorter root to hurt Swain too much? No Swain's nerf is probably the only one that's even mildy questionable, and even then there's not really too much of an issue with it, if there is, it can always get Elised and bumped up at earlier levels.

With that of the way why are you up in arms over this? I don't deny it's pretty sad that Riot jumps on these 3 near instantaneously, but watches Mr Egghead-no-risk be not-not-meta forever and 5 days, and Yasuo rip things apart only to give us the good ole "We're keeping an eye on them". But does that make these nerfs unwarranted? Does these champion's pick rates make these nerfs unwarranted?

Here's what I think about these 3, and I won't lie, I've played a bit of Brand and Anivia, and haven't willingly played swain, but here's my experience from vsing them

Brand: Stun is too long early levels considering e is targeted and instant (I'd be 100% OK with 1.5 seconds-2, or even 2.25 from lvl 1-5)

Anivia: Un-assassinateable, must be poked down or 3+v1 dove. Obnoxious crit damage and waveclear, moreso than probably needed even if it's her gimmick (kinda biased? I never fail to struggle to put this bird to the ground, and maybe if i only played 3 champions it'd be unreasonable to use this, but I've tried at least 7-8 of my main picks against her, nothing is easier than the rest offensively, the only differences are defensively)

Swain: How am I supposed to kill you? (Legit like.... I've only done this on yasuo, likely because no resource to worry about)

I think a lot of you are getting upset not because it upsets you, but because you think it should. But whatever, sheep will be sheep, I would know I'm from New Zealand.

To beat Swain : -Pick a champ good at waveclearing (Anivia, Brand, VIktor, TF, Lux, Morgana, Cho, Zed, etc) -Pick a champ with good range (Lux, ZIggs, Xerath, Morg, etc) -Pick a bully champ or strong low level champ (Leblanc, Zed, Yasuo, RIven, Cassiop, etc.) -Pick burst champ (Annie, Viktor, ... i could go on...) -Deny him blue buff -Roam (Swain cant hardly push to your turret since if he use ult to waveclear, he'll be OOM or won't have enough mana to fight you)

2 sec snare might be long, yeah. But the snare is on a 18 sec CD at level 1. Also easy to dodge.

I'm a Swain main and everytime i lane against a Swain, i win. Know the champ, and you'll win.

But yeah if a Swain is fed, he can start a fight and alone and wait for his team to clean up. But he need to get fed.

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