Irelia movement speed should be 325

D357R0Y3R·Oct 27, 2018·49 votes·15,530 views

During talon's rework they reduced his movement speed from 350 to 330, minus TWENTY base ms, and stashu said that "Talon shouldn't just run into people and kill them but use walls to close the gap and kill people"

Irelia during last patch had her movement speed reduced from 340 to 335 because Riot wants her to "rely on bladesurge to be mobile" But here is the thing, 5 movement speed nerf is good if you want to reduce rotation's speed

but that's it

You don't make someone less mobile with 5 movement speed nerf If you want Irelia to be REALLY dependant on Q to be mobile, (and thus make her more dependant on hitting E else she gets outran) you shouldn't give her 335 base ms, but 325 base ms like all ranged mage and adcs (majority).

55 Comments

Moody POct 27, 201831 votes

320 >>:)

wildfox9TOct 27, 201832 votes

she can move only with her Q >>>:)

ned the kledOct 28, 20181 votes

in that case make it 0 i'll be happy

Ivern and IreliaOct 28, 201823 votes

Then for consistency, can we also lower Yasuo's ms. For years he pretty much had unrivaled lane mobility, and his base ms is still 345. If we're going to be nerfing irelia's ms because "she should be relying on her q to get around" then shouldnt we be doing the same for yasuo.

Void KaijuOct 28, 20183 votes

Yasuo needs to basic attack to deal the bulk of his damage so he actually needs the movement speed. Irelia frontloads her damage to her dashes and can dash to the same target multiple times. It's not really consistency.

SangreDeNocheOct 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ivern and Irelia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKeRZjz,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-10-28T01:42:02.626+0000)

Then for consistency, can we also lower Yasuo's ms. For years he pretty much had unrivaled lane mobility, and his base ms is still 345. If we're going to be nerfing irelia's ms because "she should be relying on her q to get around" then shouldnt we be doing the same for yasuo.

I think the logic is his shield builds with move speed so it's kind of important but with the rest of his kit being good where it shouldn't none of it feels fair.

D357R0Y3ROct 28, 20182 votes

Except that Yasuo unlike Irelia cannot oneshot a squishy target with trinity force, while Irelia can with E+Q+Q

Talon could Irelia as a diver can

Yasuo having 345 base ms is fine because his dash isn't 600 range anyway, and even if he dashed on you it's not the end of the world Irelia hitting E and both Q on you is a death sentence this is fine, but if you dodged E she shouldn't be able to keep up in distance with you

Preheated OvenOct 27, 201819 votes

how about 0 [slayer-jinx-wink]

ankoanko19Oct 28, 201810 votes

or irelia shouldnt maybe be as overloaded as she currently is? Just look at her W and R, they do too many things with little pay offs.

AugustHeatHazeOct 27, 20186 votes

ChiyohitplayboiOct 27, 20185 votes

The irelia hate circle-jerk is really strong lol. Would you really be happy if Irelia was just gutted out of the game just because you hate dealing with her?

Z3SleeperOct 28, 201835 votes

Yes, but since that's unrealistic, this is the next best thing.

AseraanOct 28, 20182 votes

Arent we all like that whit 1 champ tho????

EvenOct 28, 20189 votes

No shes just extremely overtuned right now of course people will ask for nerfs.

HotarµOct 28, 20187 votes

hate circle-jerk

So, if you have legitimate reasons to dislike something, it's a "hate circle jerk", apparently.

ChiyohitplayboiOct 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

So, if you have legitimate reasons to dislike something, it's a "hate circle jerk", apparently.

The only reason I see people cry is because she kills you. Meanwhile camille is more mobile bursts you for 1k true damage all of which isn't a skillshot btw.

Graves runs up to you misses all of his skills and still 2 shots you late game while being mobile, ranged and tanky.

Viktor literally breaks toplane right now.

There are so many more "Broken" champions that no one talks about. You can DODGE Irelia's E.

BLIGHTBRINGEROct 28, 20181 votes

Exactly lol

BjørnetjenestenOct 28, 20181 votes

Yes

GayFluffyUnicornOct 28, 20183 votes

Honestly, gut her pending a rework. That's the only solution for her right now i feel. With her current kit she either bursts squishies too fast or just has to outdps every toplaner otherwise she has no place in the game. Irelia was a toplaner for years so i know mains would hate to see her go midlane but i think it would be the healthiest for her to be a midlaner.

ankoanko19Oct 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, gut her pending a rework. That's the only solution for her right now i feel. With her current kit she either bursts squishies too fast or just has to outdps every toplaner otherwise she has no place in the game. Irelia was a toplaner for years so i know mains would hate to see her go midlane but i think it would be the healthiest for her to be a midlaner.

#RevertIrelia

TrikzterzArmaOct 28, 20184 votes

I got really downvoted when I said 5 less movement speed were too little xD

Beatrice fallsOct 27, 20183 votes

25 movement speed

Sir RougeOct 28, 20183 votes

Ok, imma have to state some information on this post (this is coming from someone who thinks Irelia should be nerfed further).

1) Talon's ms was reduced to 335, not 330. Talon and Irelia share the same ms at the moment (335). It's low enough for a melee champion of their kind. Less than 335 ms for a melee champion would be entering the terrirory of : and . Neither Talon or Irelia should be there.

2) "you shouldn't give her 335 base ms, but 325 base ms like all ranged mage and adcs (majority)." 325 base ms is not like the "majority" of all ranged mages and adcs.

About 18 ranged champions (around 15 (+-2) being mages or adcs) have 325 ms.
About 50 ranged champions (around 42 (+-3) being mages or adcs) have higher than 325 ms. Around 15 out of 57 is not a majority. So, even for ranged champions, 325 ms is low. Irelia should have higher ms than that.

BLIGHTBRINGEROct 28, 20183 votes

I feel that those buffs are quite meaningless later on when she has item 3044 or item 3078 (considering it gives her 20 Movement Speed when she hits something and then 60 instead if she kills anything).

ModAcademy KaynOct 28, 20182 votes

I feel like this is ignoring the big issue though. Talon got the ability to jump over multiple walls at a time, crossing the map in no time flat. Irelia gets to dash to a target minion/Champion, making it Lane only. Unless there's one of those, she can't actively run away either, unlike Talon.

D357R0Y3ROct 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKeRZjz,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-10-28T01:31:38.785+0000)

. Irelia gets to dash to a target minion/Champion, making it Lane only.

No? she got the marking mechanic to avoid that

ModAcademy KaynOct 28, 20182 votes

Her marking mechanic is still only Champion. She can't use her mobility to Run Away, unless there's a vastly out of position champion, of they're in jungle. Her mobility is nowhere near the same as Talon's, whose mobility is mainly for Roaming, hence lower MS, so he has to use his tools to get across the map fast.

D357R0Y3ROct 28, 20181 votes

Yes, Talon can use his mobility to get away but that's not why Riot reduced his base ms, from the words of stashu he shouldn't just run into people to kill them, with Irelia they said "she should rely more on her Q" , -5 ms doesn't do anything to that

ModAcademy KaynOct 28, 20181 votes

You're ignoring context. Talon shouldn't just run up to people, when he has the ability to cross great distances invisible, thanks to his ult. Allowing Talon to just run up to people, just invisible, removes any skill Talon should have as an assassin, so forcing him to rely on his tools entirely, makes sense. Having Irelia rely a little more on her Q, Is not the same as needing to balance a champion's skill cap by forcing them to use the tools they have. -5 MS does do that.

Does it do so effectively? Maybe, maybe not, but at the moment, I don't think you're the best judge to decide. You're trying to balance a Diver, the same way Riot tries to balance an Assassin, while ignoring all context but a single, slightly similar, comparison of words. That's not right, and you're ignoring a lot.

D357R0Y3ROct 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKeRZjz,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-28T14:32:49.557+0000)

Allowing Talon to just run up to people, just invisible, removes any skill Talon should have as an assassin

that's not how it works at all, if talon uses ult you know that he did even if he's invisible, you can still use some mobility tools to get back or self peeling abilities

they reduced his base ms so he can no longer just walk ---->dash----->kill someone instead he uses wall to surprise people and kill them

Does it do so effectively? Maybe, maybe not, but at the moment, I don't think you're the best judge to decide.

It's been 5 days patch is out, her win rate didn't drop by a single 0.1%

You're trying to balance a Diver, the same way Riot tries to balance an Assassin, while ignoring all context but a single, slightly

I'm not, RIOT IS they want Irelia to depend on Q, -5 ms doesn't do that again second time i'm saying it

ModAcademy KaynOct 28, 20181 votes

They don't want her to depend entirely only with Q, which is what your suggestion is trying to do.

https://i.gyazo.com/39b191a0eed64d3b7d0b3d2914a82a23.png

They want her to rely more on it. And Talon's MS was lowered, because they didn't want him to double dip on having Extreme Map mobility alongside higher MS, forcing you to use the Walls. Talon's extreme Map Mobility is the reason.

D357R0Y3ROct 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vKeRZjz,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-28T20:25:22.545+0000)

And Talon's MS was lowered, because they didn't want him to double dip on having Extreme Map mobility alongside higher MS, **forcing you to use the Walls. **

ok? that's exactly what I said

on having Extreme Map mobility

they didn't lower his bonus ms because of parkour they gave him parkour because they lowered his base ms

his playstyle was "braindeadly walk into someone to dash and oneshot" and they wanted to remove that

DearPearOct 28, 20182 votes

Yeah also make her passive heal enemies, her R self-stuns and makes Irelia dance, and her W should just look pretty and do nothing else. That's Gameplay for you guys.

BisaknospOct 28, 20182 votes

only if Yasuo gets the same treatment also lee sin has 2 gap closers cant the same argument be used against him too?

D357R0Y3ROct 28, 20181 votes

As I said to someone else, Yasuo does not have the burst of a diver (Irelia) or assassin (Talon), they lowered his base ms from 350 to 340 in 2014 and he became garbage for a full year (even while giving him back 5 ms) until a passive buff in 2015

When you want to reduce the base movement speed by a huge amount, you need to make sure that said champion can still kill someone within a second to not become a bad pick. this is the reason Mordekaiser had 325 base ms and was still broken for a short time, because if you stayed within his range for 1 or 2 sec you died.

They want to make Irelia relying on her Q to kill you, because right now if she misses E, she can still Q you and chase you with 200 AA range and kill you, while she should (for the sake of counterplay) not be able to kill you if she missed E.

As for Lee sin idk I don't know much about him so I won't talk about him

BisaknospOct 28, 20184 votes

its been so many times that lee has just run me down and wardhopped just to do his outplay r q 100% counterplay combo so i dont see a single reason for him to not have his base ms lowered

ApollyonBainerOct 28, 20181 votes

As far as lee sin goes im no main so bear with me. His q is a skill shot and his w is not a very far dash. Honestly if you can stay out of his way and play safe theres not a lot he can do once he misses q. That takes away some versatility. Yeah if he hits that q youre at his mercy but dodge is a good skill to have

ValyrianBladeOct 28, 20182 votes

Irelia already had a dash with a reset on kill. They gave her an additional reset condition, so while her mobility increased, it wasn't by much. Nowhere near the same scale that Talon's mobility increased with his ability to jump over walls every couple seconds.

A 5 MS nerf is a lot bigger than people realize. Like the base 3 AD nerfs. People vastly underestimate them and make memes of them, but they have a noticeable impact on stats.

Will it be enough for Irelia? I don't know. Irelia is really fucking busted right now. The problem is only partially her mobility though. Giving her an AOE stun, an insane ultimate, and a huge damage soaking ability that can't be disabled by CC (like, hello - Ornn had unstoppable removed from his W - and now Irelia gets this kit??). Yes, maybe 325 ms would be enough to bring her in line, but I'd much rather see some nerfs directed elsewhere instead...

Saitho OriharaOct 29, 20182 votes

Now would low MS fix it ? Maybe not to that point but having her Q-reliant would be a good call, Irelia already got a lot of ways to use Q to go around and making a nerf that makes her Q-reliant isn't a bad idea at all.

Also, she's like a lot of Toplaners right not, being played in mid without any of the problem Toplaners face in mid, being poked, pushed out and being stock under tower. However, like her other kind of Toplaners in mid, she has none of those problem. In fact, these are part of their Kit and are kind of crucial part, not some stat or side effect of their kit, so I believe the proposition of removing some MS from Irelia to make her Q-reliant would be a good one for now.

ZephyrDrakeOct 28, 20181 votes

ok... then can we buff Irelia's Q by 50 damage at all ranks and a extra 50% AD ratio and with a CD decrease? no? then no she will not have 325 MS

hhaavviikkOct 28, 20181 votes

meanwhile lee sin with double gap closer and 345 ms

MarothennanOct 28, 20181 votes

No, they should cut both her legs and put her in a wheelchair, making her move as fast as dismounted Kled. Maybe that would make her balanced

NyarlathοtepOct 28, 20181 votes

Yasuo too.

Summonah12369Oct 28, 20181 votes

Gragas and Tahm Kenchs' movement speeds should be -100.

BestPudgeNAOct 28, 20181 votes

Can't tell if OP is joking or not.

GigglesOOct 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

During talon's rework they reduced his movement speed from 350 to 330, minus TWENTY base ms, and stashu said that "Talon shouldn't just run into people and kill them but use walls to close the gap and kill people"

Irelia during last patch had her movement speed reduced from 340 to 335 because Riot wants her to "rely on bladesurge to be mobile"

meanwhile mordes should be 340 because he has no real added mobility.

5050BSOct 29, 20181 votes

Its not the ONLY thing that needs to be nerfed on her.

S0lShadowsOct 29, 20181 votes

Irelia shouldn't be a fucking champion

Modl Ryden lOct 29, 20181 votes

As long as they keep her Q animation speed independent from her movement speed I'm fine with another MS nerf.

Irelia has already had a lot of inconsistencies with her Q since her rework. We don't need to jank it up anymore. It becomes so frustrating to have to relearn her Q limits every time she gets touched in a patch.