You know why Melee carries are better design than Ranged carries?

Ahristocats··9 votes·876 views

yeah, a lot of them are outdated and thus stat-checking , i know that and get it, but:

they are all different, they all bring a different niche, no melee carry overlap with an other

there is ONE aoe damage melee carry Riven there is ONE poke/siege master melee carry Gangplank that also counters champions focused on a single CC like Skarner Rammus Fiddlesticks Jax counters heavy AA focused champions Tryndamere counters 4 or 5 AD comp as he can remove 80 AD on the entire enemy team MasterYi counters slow focused champions like Ashe Gangplank who relies on slows to protect themselves Yasuo counters heavy ranged team as they will be denied by windwall, he can also get on top of them easily with minions

not a single melee carry overlaps with the strength of an other melee carry

meanwhile in the marksmen department why would you pick KogMaw instead of Jinx ? or Twitch ? "he can kill tanks with %hp damage" that's like saying you pick Yi over Yasuo because true damage>50% armor pen even if kog has %hp damage, he will kill a tank in as much AA as Twitch as twitch DPS is insane

marksmen do not bring unique utility/defense, they're all about damage Graves Jinx Twitch Draven KogMaw Vayne Caitlyn Lucian and the one who deals more damage ends up dominating the others MissFortune niche is supposed to wipe an entire team? but Twitch might as well pick him as he does it from stealth

of course, i respect some marksmen that bring a unique strength for their team Kalista brings an ally back to her making her the best ally of tahm kench/blitz, while also making her great with vanguard supports Sivir enables low range champions with her ult like Annie Varus one of the 2 only champions that bring anti-healing debuff Jhin 3000 range spells, can be used with divers to take down targets in the backline while sitting in the backline Ezreal team wide attack speed buff that can be used as a combination with some other champions

"but what about ashe ult, that's unique!"

ask yourself this: when is a ranged stun+tons of slow, or a global vision bad in a game? never, they're all viable in all situations which is why ashe has 100% ban/pick rate in competition since a long time now, unless she's unviable she will be picked in all games as her utility is viable everytime and will prevent other marksmen from being picked unless she's so bad

same thing with mobility when is mobility bad? when are you going to pick a mobile champion over an immobile champion? yep, again no situation where mobility is bad, and this is why Lucian was never balanced, someone who plays this game since lucian release knows that lucian was always either outperforming every adcs, or one of the worst pick ever

23 Comments

Big Lincoln5 votes

yeah, a lot of them are outdated and thus stat-checking

most ranged adcs are like this too, though. a big chunk of them are useless for a while, and then "oh i have my crit, guess i'll steamroll everybody now"

melees > ranged all day tbh

Espy Psyche4 votes

Ashe has utility. Lucian has mobility. Ezreal has safety. Caitlyn has safety too, but her safety is different than Ezreal's. Caitlyn has safety against mages by outranging them from the back line. Ezreal has safety against assassins with his mobility. Graves has tankiness. Twitch has stealth. Kog'Maw has HP shred. Vayne has true damage. Sivir has teamwide chase. Kalista has objective securing. Jhin has execute damage. Varus has anti-healing debuff.

How is this not different?

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

They're all 'right click to win' champions once they get any lifesteal/crit.

DrCyanide1 votes

I wasn't aware that the Melee champions he listed didn't also rely on "right click to win".

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

At least they have to rely on using abilities, which at least require aim.

DrCyanide2 votes

At least they have to rely on using abilities, which at least require aim.

lol, that's funny.

How many of the melee champions that were listed have skillshots (the only type of skill that requires more aiming than right clicking) in their kit? Only one three, Yasuo (Gangplank and Riven ). If you want to be generous and add Irelia or LeeSin go ahead.

How many of the ranged champions that were listed have skillshots that they need to aim? Ashe Lucian Ezreal Caitlyn Graves Twitch KogMaw Sivir Jhin Varus MissFortune . All but two of the ones listed have a skillshot in their kit.

Your own argument goes against Melee carries.

Big Lincoln3 votes

Fiora needs to aim w Gangplank barrels Kled q Aatrox e Darius q

seems like plenty to me lol

DrCyanide1 votes

Of those, only GP was listed in the original post. I've edit my post to correct for that, and added Riven for her ultimate.

If you extend the list of melee caries beyond the initial one given, then at best you end up with a list of Melee champions with skillshots on-par with the number of Ranged champions with skillshots, which still negates ZT's statement that they need to aim more abilities.

Ahristocats3 votes

yasuo can miss Q just saying

DrCyanide1 votes

Yes, both his normal Q and his Tornado Q. That's why I listed him with the Melee champions who have Skillshots.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Missing Q/getting interrupted on aatrox is like the biggest fucking cockblock ever

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Need to aim? Let me prove you wrong.

Ashe's passive slow on her auto-attacks makes it a breeze to land anything else, the exception being if they have a blink. Lucian's piercing light is a targeted attack. Ezreal is pretty much the only non-mage carry that does more damage without auto-attacks; however he's most known for abusing on-hit items thanks to his mystic shot. Caitlyn's headshot & ace in the hole are her primary damage, and also point & click. Graves' rework was a mistake waiting to happen, amusingly the only champion who's auto-attacks could be outrun, in theory. Twitsh's contaminate (previously called expunge) is auto-aimed, at anyone he previously hit with his passive. Kogmaw's bio-arcane barrage is an auto-attack range buff as an ability, and the defining trait to see who's good with him; those who are will land his living artillery, those who aren't rely on his extra range hybrid damage. Sivir's ricochet is a self aimed auto-attack that will hit everyone in the nearby vicinity. Jihn's dancing grenade is targeted and also self-targeting, a literal fire and forget aoe. Varus actually requires aim for his abilities, and does bonus damage is he waits to do so, congratulations for finding one that doesn't have to rely on point and click. MissFortune's love tap and double up are both targeted attacks, and where most of her damage comes from generally.

Bonus round, what other marksmen are there? Kindred . . . everything in her kit is either targeted or self aiming. Jinx, like kogmaw she makes it even easier to land auto-attacks as a primary ability. Draven, same story, including attack speed for even more spam; however I'll say he actually requires skill, not to aim but to play, since he has to micromanage his position constantly if he wants consistently high damage. Corki's gatling gun is aoe where he's looking, and if he's auto-attacking then you'll probably get hit with this too. Tristana's rocket jump is the only non-targeted attack she has. Vayne . . . the original queen of unavoidable attacks. Quinn's harrier is self aiming, and her vaulting is also point and click, which resets harrier on whoever she jumped from, giving her near triple normal auto-attack damage (disregarding criticals) in a second if used properly. Kalista's pierce is the only aimed attack she has to worry about, her fate's call is aimed by her partner. And nobody cares about xayah, unless she's followed by rakan.

DrCyanide1 votes

So rather than try to bring up how melee champions have more skillshots, thus rely on aiming more, and proving your point, you resort to trying to discredit the skillshots of ranged champions? I didn't discredit any of the skillshots of the Melee champions listed, but you have to resort to that to even come close to making the lists comparable?

You really did have no leg to stand on.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Lincoln already pointed out some so it would've been redundant, nice try trying to separate a discussion between several people. Yet you can't provide any useful counterpoints or examples, but instead try to discredit me; so stop wasting your time.

SEKAI4 votes

Whatever you opinion is, we all agree 1 thing here:

We need more melee AD carries.

Or we should have less ranged AD carries. I mean fkn hell how many are there? Can't we at least make it so that marksman doesn't automatically mean "carry"?

Ahristocats2 votes

yes we do, we need more of them

Laxfan521 votes

I thought he was trying to say we need to make marksman more unique in what they bring

II JGL II1 votes

Take a gander at dota 2 as an example of melee carries. Terrorblade is a melee carry who happens to specialize in killing carries. He has ~70 armour at lvl 1 very good hp regen and great scaling. However his weakness is profound. He has EXTREMELY low base hp at lvl 25 he has 1400hp and due to that he can get nuked by mages extremely easily. In fact he can be instakilled at lvl 4-6 by a mage. He can build to to not get rekt but as you ca ntell his natural stats DO specialize him for 1v1ing physical dmg dealers. His kit allows him to potentially survive mages tho, his Q causes everyone around him to get a clone that hurts them for up to 6 seconds, his W spawns a clone of himself that does a % of his base dmg, sorta like shaco clone but u can have up to 2, his E transforms him boosts his range and gives him extra dmg but slows his base ms, and his ult lets him swap hp with an enemy or ally. An example u have 20% hp enemy has 100% hp, you ult them, you now have full hp and enemy has 20% hp. You can use it on allies too to heal them or to use them as a walking hp battery.

Melee carries in dota are hella fun but with well defined weaknesses. Ranged carries in dota tend to all have little to no mobility unlike league where we have graves, ezreal, vayne, cait, and lucian.

Salson1 votes

You're not wrong, but I find the lack of Fiora.....annoying.

Also Rumble always felt like the only AP melee carry, at least to me.

YJRBqwXJcS1 votes

woah chill ezreal is unique

and graves unique ability is to have a shit ton of damage with the durability of a tank :^)

ProtestantCaesar1 votes

I find it weird that you say Riven is the only AoE damage melee carry, and then you talk about Gangplank . How is Gangplank not AoE?

Ahristocats1 votes

GP deals AOE damage, but it's more like poke which is why i said he's the sieging master he can siege hard with barrels that cost no mana, deals a lot of damage and have low cd in late game Riven on the other hand is more suited to teamfight, and wombo combo

if yo uhave amumu+sona+fiddle, would you pick gp or riven? i would pick riven

More from Gameplay

More by Ahristocats