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State of Botlane, from a hardcore Botlane player

Ahristocats··13 votes·1,505 views

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Hello everyone, it's been a while since i posted on the boards. the game has evolved by a lot, which is why I'm here to share my thoughts as a botlane only player who enjoys playing the carry role and the support role and who currently only lives to be able to play Mordekaiser Janna , feel free to post your thoughts, i would love to know the thoughts of riot too, as botlane is changed very often directly or indirectly.

i hate to write long threads and will try to do as short as possible but i have way too much to say unfortunatly due to pre-season massive changes so let's start this, and we're going to point out what was botlane in season 7 because it's needed to understand few changes

we all remember the fiasco which was botlane in season 7 and frankly i'm happy that it got solved remember when tristana twitch kog took targon warlord and never died in lane? remember when janna sona soraka lulu took coin stacked gold, never lacked of mana in lane, and then rushed ardent censor? to me it feels like this hell ended only yesterday and nothing was worse than this meta and that since 2010 adcs were safe from early to late game, couldn't be bullied in early game, were the king of late game and on top of that supports were additional items for adcs

did it change? yes it did and on several aspects, the point of this thread is to talk about them to also tell riot to never go back to this meta

Sustain:

Warlord bloodlust was turned into flee footwork, and its healing is reduced on minions by 40%! additionally taking FFW lowers your damage output because you don't have press the attack. The entire precision tree is actually not damage oriented Marksmen going for precision have a lot of powers into things that do not give damage like triumph, or legend alacrity/lifesteal which is a delayed power because they need to farm to increase their stats. which brings me to my second point:

damage:

Previously you would get free 8% total armor penetration from the offensive tree, as well as %damage amplfication and fresh blood giving +10 on hit damage each 6 seconds Now the precision tree lacks of offensive power, the only real offensive power you get is press the attack/lethal tempo (the later is hard to use in lane) and coup de grace which requieres the enemies to be low You can feel how marksmen's damage output has been reduced so much in early game, that Draven who's a lane bully goes for aery and sorcery tree, because the precision tree doesn't give as much damage as before in lane (this part is important to remember)

magic resistance runes removed:

i cannot stress more than right now about how this change made me love the game, and how i'm looking for season 8 Magic resistance runes removal made marksmen so much weaker to poke that Bard is able to remove half of their hp with electrocute/aery+Q+passive they take so much damage now that i'm able to play semi-Carry Janna and outtrade them in early game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wsfv2Yn74E

the MR runes removal made adcs unable to be safe in early game anymore, one bad trade and it can go wrong and remember that you can't sustain like before anymore. Being a carry makes sense in season 8 (will make sense) because you will be weak as fuck in early game until at least mid game everyone will outdamage you, you don't have as much damage as before (unless you're like draven or something)

and i'm going to say it again but it's a good change because supports are no longer additional items for adcs supports are now scarry af in early game, Soraka Lulu Janna can outtrade adcs, they have reasons to interact, they're the one dictating the laning phase now unlike before where janna would just stay in a bush and constantly press E on her marksman

and i love it!!!

so who're the strongest adc/support right now? the weakest?

support department:

Sona is beyond garbage, needs a bloody rework on a VGU scale and asap, like on a galio scale, not goanna repeat what i said 1 year ago during the lethality meta, need to make it short, especially since i know i'm going to be ignored on that part, riot already ignored anything regarding Sona for like 4 years now ever since Riot Fearless worked on the pointless rework https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jQRr1Anq-going-to-write-a-book-of-replies-about-sona-to-riot-fearless https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rc792Nbi-an-exhaustive-list-of-sonas-problems-and-how-riot-can-potentially-fixe-them

Janna i'm not going to talk about her because i love janna too much that it makes my point of view too biased to be real, But if you nerf her just don't hit her damage, i love that version of janna more than the previous version of janna that had all of her power into E that version of janna that can be reckless, goes in wildly and and destroy adcs IS THE REAL FURRY OF THE STORM! also because i'm planning to play carry janna botlane in season 8!

https://youtu.be/bkhbFi7ao4U

other than that it seems that alistar is on the strong side, can't say if overpowered or not, nami broke 52% win rate for the first time i think the support role has achieved a balance between enchanters/tanks, and hope that riot wouldn't nerf enchanters like they planned to in 7.24 because there are absolutly no reasons to hit the entire class

adc department:

Vayne i appreciate that you made her healthy ever since she can't oneshot anymore, but she's overtuned right now with 53% win rate and 30% pick rate that's a pre-nerf cait lvl of stats and we know that it's wrong one can argue that she's strong in that meta where tanky champions are strong, but being good in a meta doesn't protect you from nerfs

Ezreal they're planning to work on kleptomancy so i'm okay with that

other than that there is nothing that i'm not fine with Twitch Tristana KogMaw all dropped win rate wise, they're way too weak in early game and can be abused easily as much as any hypercarry

Mordekaiser i would like to end this thread by saying thanks to the riot team they probably didn't plan to buff mordekaiser, but nevertheless mordekaiser ended up being the champion that got buffed the most out of all champions by pre-season

¨Previously, you would run 25 ap 8 mr pen and 220 hp at lvl 18 on morde but now, out of nowhere you get free movement speed from runes you get magical footwork+celerity, both increases movement speed and you end up with (without any other bonus ms) 398.5 movement speed

now now mordekaiser is the least understood champion in the game by everyone, i think even riot doesn't understand him but a mordekaiser playing the game with 400 base ms is so great, it's so reliable He's balanced around having a 325 base ms, with no dash and cc, you're just breaking his only weakness if you allow him to run a marathon LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1q9pAoLqY

now the reasoning would be that he gives up things for that but he doesn't he has as much ap as before at lvl 1, enemies lost magic resistance while he didn't because he never cared about mr runes

what is the cherry on the cake? his base armor got buffed by FIVE!! and again you probably can't understand how this is busted, but having your armor going from 20 to 25 is as strong as your armor going from 25 to 32 Mordekaiser's laning phase is "balanced" by the fact that due to his low armor he takes increased poke damage and can be bursted but if his damage reduction gets buffed from 16% to 20% he's going to take less poke damage which means you can't break through his shielding, and his W sustain

what's more, is that Mordekaiser has the strongest interaction with Aery interaction out of all the champions in the game

https://i.gyazo.com/a7e2f9f1246c53c4807854af2f59d53f.png

can you see it? mordekaiser is able to shield over 4000 damage with aery in a single game (also dealing damage) Aery has a bonus ad and bonus ap ratio, and mordekaiser builds both Aery procs on healing, and Mordekaiser is the only carry champion that can heal an ally (fiora ult too) in the game, he can shield with aery so much Aery makes him more than a pile of damage, he can shield and heal allies, this also makes him less feast or famin than before it also procs on his ult damage like an old DFT!!

thanks for reading, share your thoughts if you have some i don't know if i'm going to answer to people or not, due to time problem

but you can add me in the game if you have questions [slayer-jinx-catface]

28 Comments

Aimléss6 votes

I'm glad I finally found someone on these boards that understands that ADC's aren't strong early and are not what's causing this ff@15 meta, but did you really just say Janna being able to out trade an ADC is a good thing? Magic poke is too strong with the new runes and Sups should only dictate the lane 50-50 with the ADC, that certainly needs to change with this meta.

Ahristocats2 votes

{quoted}

but did you really just say Janna being able to out trade an ADC is a good thing?

what do you want, Janna staying behind and being an adc slave while spamming E, or Janna doing something in 2v2, taking risks, and poking?

because it's one of the 2, you can't have the 2 together i as a janna player don't care, i will play janna no matter what!!!

but if you would like the first, then people would insult us janna players "lol no skill champ, boosted egirl only stay behind and use one spell" "you don't deserve your elo"

Aimléss2 votes

What do you mean you can't have both? Why can't Janna outrade the ADC some of the time if she outplays them and loses if she does something wrong? Why must she shield herself and run up to trade for free while the ADC has to run away or take damage for free, only being able to rely on his sup to make a play in order to win the trade?

Why should ADC's be the farm bots, while only sups get to dictate the lane? It should be 50-50. Poke needs to be brought down a bit, there's a reason why MF and EZ are top dogs right now.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

? Why can't Janna outrade the ADC some of the time if she outplays them

and how exactly does janna outplay an adc?

{quoted}

and loses if she does something wrong?

she already does her E has 18 sec cd, you can abuse that

{quoted}

Why must she shield herself and run up to trade for free while the ADC has to run away or take damage for free, only being able to rely on his sup to make a play in order to win the trade?

because hypercarries must be abusable in early game, it's their only weakness as in late game they still have point and click tons of damage from range janna can't do that to draven or lucian for instance, but both of them are not hypercarries and fall off in late game

there's a reason why MF and EZ are top dogs right now.

mf top dog over vayne who's by the way poking hard the bot lane right.

Salson2 votes

Why should ADC's be the farm bots, while only sups get to dictate the lane? It should be 50-50.

Sure. As soon as a 6 item Support can equal the damage output of a 6 item carry, that seems fair.

Penns1 votes

Is anyone saying adcs cause this meta tho? If anything junglers/supports get them ahead and then you can ff@15 because adcs are still point and click lul

Salson2 votes

Looks like Medler didn't hire assassins to kill you after all. ....or he did, but forgot he nerfed them.

Anyway, any thoughts on Support getting too much gold and stats from their items? It's like you can go even with the farming carry unless he steals your kills.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Anyway, any thoughts on Support getting too much gold and stats from their items?

as far as i know gold generation of supports didn't get buffed during preseason?

for stats, item 3092 item 3098 are overtunned the balance team tried to make spellthief edge built over coin in the past

they buffed the damage it gives from 15 to 18 gave free cdr to frostfang and buffed the build path from item 3092

thing is if you nerf enchanters, you need to nerf tank supports as well, because right now we have a harmony with both on the same level!

except Sona [slayer-jinx-wink]

Salson1 votes

as far as i know gold generation of supports didn't get buffed during preseason?

They got the old Bandit gold mastery on them now. Like imagine if Doran items got the % mana mastery for free.

for stats, are overtunned the balance team tried to make spellthief edge built over coin in the past

they buffed the damage it gives from 15 to 18 gave free cdr to frostfang and buffed the build path from

All I know is that it's overtunned and should get nerfed. Support main know better than me whether they like gold/stats/effects more.

thing is if you nerf enchanters, you need to nerf tank supports as well, because right now we have a harmony with both on the same level!

I wouldn't mind this, I saw quite a lot of Leonas and Tarics walk the whole lane after loosing their Adc, while getting pummeled by 3 people no less.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

They got the old Bandit gold mastery on them now.

which means nothing changed? every single support went for bandit before

{quoted}

Like imagine if Doran items got the % mana mastery for free.

and it would have if mana flow band wasn't released

{quoted}

I wouldn't mind this, I saw quite a lot of Leonas and Tarics walk the whole lane after loosing their Adc, while getting pummeled by 3 people no less.

fair enough i don't mind as long as we still have balance !

Salson1 votes

You have to use a rune slot for Manaflow. Supports got Bandit for free.

Can't say is ok with them getting free stuff, while the users of doran items don't. Cause hey, 8% armor pen keept a lot of toplane tanks in check.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

You have to use a rune slot for Manaflow.

true

{quoted}

Supports got Bandit for free.

supports needed bandit anyway, there were no reasons to reduce their gold generation, they didn't make so much money

If mages are more out of mana than before, riot can buff doran's ring mana regen but until now i never saw any mages going out of mana too much time, maybe it's because of mana flow band

one thing that makes it core might be because you end up oom too much time without it they can nerf mana flow band and buff doran's mana regen

but mages not getting something doesn't equal supports not getting something, supports needed bandit to live

{quoted} . Cause hey, 8% armor pen keept a lot of toplane tanks in check.

^

Salson1 votes

supports needed bandit anyway, there were no reasons to reduce their gold generation, they didn't make so much money but mages not getting something doesn't equal supports not getting something, supports needed bandit to live

Your right, but you only take botlane into account.

The game is actually very well balanced within roles themselves. But when I say I will not be content unless Top-Mid-Bot is 30-30-40 in teams lane power budget I mean it.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

But when I say I will not be content unless Top-Mid-Bot is 30-30-40 in teams lane power budget I mean it.

fair enough but shouldn't that be intended? i mean bot has 2 players, mid and top are 1 player by lane

Salson2 votes

The map itself shifts too hard. 40% is the limit of power you can put into botlane without making the entire game revolve around it.

That's why it's ok for the Marksman to scale hard, the duo should be able to take a 'fair' share once the towers fall and game becomes free for all. Just as long as everyone benefits from Leona's engage, and not Ardenting the Marksman into a Mythic raid.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

but mages not getting something doesn't equal supports not getting something, supports needed bandit to live

Your right, but you only take botlane into account.

The game is actually very well balanced within roles themselves. But when I say I will not be content unless Top-Mid-Bot is 30-30-40 in teams lane power budget I mean it.

No, it's 20/20/20/40

top/mid/jg/bot

Salson1 votes

Well I did say 'lane power budget'.

Guess the full team would be 25-25-20-30 for the first 20 minutes or so. Assuming you want to balance the map and not roles between themselves.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

At first I saw this:

Bard is able to remove half of their hp with electrocute/aery+Q+passive

And I was like

[sg-shisa]

But then you made it sound reasonable:

and i'm going to say it again but it's a good change because supports are no longer additional items for adcs

supports are now scarry af in early game, can outtrade adcs, they have reasons to interact, they're the one dictating the laning phase now unlike before where janna would just stay in a bush and constantly press E on her marksman

Well put! I still think bard taking too good of an advantage of these changes and being able to poke half somebody's HP off is kind of bullshit. But the rest of the supports certainly deserve to be relevant. And I almost let my opinions about Bard cloud my view of the benefits the changes had for other supports who needed it.

Penns1 votes

magic resistance runes removed:

i cannot stress more than right now about how this change made me love the game

not same here Fizz item 3070 hehe

wildfox991 votes

Sona is beyond garbage, needs a bloody rework on a VGU scale and asap, like on a galio scale, not goanna repeat what i said 1 year ago during the lethality meta, need to make it short, especially since i know i'm going to be ignored on that part, riot already ignored anything regarding Sona for like 4 years now ever since Riot Fearless worked on the pointless rework

that's basically what riot alwyas do,players report them some issues and still they keep ingoring it untill the champion doesn't become problematic and they try to change it 1000 times untill they decide to overnerf him till he doesn't become unplayable and then rework him,while just making the change that players suggested from the beginning would solve that

that's how they work sadly [sg-poppy]

Fairyfleur1 votes

Do you think Sona could do with a minor visual update, and a major gameplay update? She looks fine, and so do her splashes, although her particles and voice lines could use work.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

although her particles and voice lines could use work.

exactly ma lady! the voice lines are outdated because she talks to summoners, and also boring they should keep the telepathy and give her other lines

{quoted}

minor visual update

she deserves a galio rework imo, by that i mean every single spell should change if you change the spells you need to change the visual of the spells

=VGU

she also needs her skins to be updated!

Miku Hime sama1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5sycByb5,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-12-28T23:44:02.339+0000)

exactly ma lady! the voice lines are outdated because she talks to summoners, and also boring they should keep the telepathy and give her other lines

Kled also speaks to the summoners (aka the "brain weasels.") Summoners aren't gone, Rito has matter-of-factly stated this quite clearly. The main map is still "Summoner's Rift," we still use Summoner Spells.

The only thing that's changed is Rito is actively avoiding mentioning the "Institute of War" which was the only thing that gave coherence to the game's mythos. It explained why random figures from across the plane and even a few extra-planar characters were randomly atop a mountaintop in the middle of nowhere beating on each other pointlessly.

Runeterra's NEW lore is completely random and lacks any form of continuity.

she also needs her skins to be updated!

Strongly agree. For example:

Fix Sona's Robe Design

Śhunpo1 votes

The state of bot lane currently: Crit. is far too strong as a stat., PtA is absolutely obnoxious, AP utility supports are still tearing up bot lane, Aftershock does far too much damage, ADCs are THE most overbuffed class apart from tanks, Comet is arguably the most broken keystone in the game apart from Kleptomancy, MR is gone, armour is weaker, towers are significantly weaker than any other season.

Also Thresh is too weak at the moment. That's a good sign that bot lane is going through a rough time in terms of balance.

Prime Beholder1 votes

I like reading your posts

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Rubick with reasonable threads?! What, this is a dream right?!

kappa

I know this isn't really related to the topic of your thread, but I was looking through one of your screenshots and saw Darius botlane as one of your top played... how did that go throughout season 7?

Miku Hime sama1 votes

His threads are always reasonable. It's pure prejudice to claim otherwise, but I'm honestly not surprised.

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5sycByb5,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-12-29T10:01:36.663+0000)

I know this isn't really related to the topic of your thread, but I was looking through one of your screenshots and saw Darius botlane as one of your top played... how did that go throughout season 7?

Was good until he got nerfed then he never recovered in high elo bot or top, i even asked darien if he was good or not

https://i.gyazo.com/f390b8b77a103072bfb64013921b1c8a.png

i don't play him anymore now, i want to forget him, remove all the mastery points i got on him, i even deleted the video i made about bot lane darius he needs a rework too

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