Why do people act like the only purpose karthus' ult has is to execute enemies

HateDaddy·Oct 25, 2016·70 votes·4,118 views

Regis used to use his ult to start of fights and chunk entire teams for 2k+ damage. Why do people think Edge of Nights will always be off cooldown when Karthus ult? at best maybe assassins rush it. If the enemy champions are saving it's edge of nights active to dick Karthus out of his ult instead of being destroyed from various other spells and they can actually get away with it, you either screwed up or karthus' team wasn't winning that fight anyway.

By the time anything other than an assassin finishes this item, lane phase will be over and the window of opportunity to pick off low hp enemies after a fight in lane will be past. I seriously doubt this time is going to impact Karthus much at all.

83 Comments

Edge of DaybreakOct 25, 201636 votes

I'm a mage main and the unrealistic scenario of this happening to karthus every game is 100% confirmed because mage main. Upvotes from fog of war pls. Assassins are broken mages are never broken rylais is clearly fine and range needs buffs. Kill me.

HauntOct 25, 201611 votes

bad players wanna pretend karthus isn't good when he is a rylais abuser, so they think he needs this change

as usual, he wasn't spammed at worlds he must be bad!!!!!!! Awful champ!!!

IcyPepperOct 25, 201624 votes

when he is a rylais abuser,

Isn't he one of the mages rylais was intended for tho? o.O

HateDaddyOct 25, 20161 votes

[deleted]

ChaddyFantomeOct 25, 20169 votes

{quoted}

Not really

Karthus was building Rylais well before it became ubiquitous. Same with Malzahar.

IcyPepperOct 25, 201613 votes

Really? I thought the guy with only one skillshot in his kit that also comes with a delay was a prime candidate for it. o.O

Then who is?

I'm starting to wonder here if this item is intended for mages at all...

HateDaddyOct 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Really? I thought the guy with only one skillshot in his kit that also comes with a delay was a prime candidate for it. o.O

Then who is?

I'm starting to wonder here if this item is intended for mages at all...

I misread your statement, yes the item was built for mages like Karthus. But I'd argue it's inception is inherently unhealthy, the same way frozen mallet is.

Myxi Two SpliffsOct 25, 20165 votes

Actually Frozen Mallet is an extremely popular buy on the Korean servers. Try outrunning a Braum with a Frozen Mallet. Or a Nasus with it. You wont.

Celestial Lion12Oct 26, 20161 votes

He doesent abuse rylais that hard though because he has all either aoe or dot abilities

BobaFlautistOct 25, 201611 votes

Plus, anyone with an active spellshield that's low hp has probably used it in the past 30s.

HateDaddyOct 25, 201610 votes

{quoted}

Plus, anyone with an active spellshield that's low hp has probably used it in the past 30s.

Exactly.

RequiemsfireOct 25, 201611 votes

Because people think Karthus's identity is all about his ult. That's not true at all, it's iconic but not core to him.

Meep ManOct 25, 20162 votes

You pick Karthus for his Passive

Nameless VoiceOct 25, 201613 votes

I thought you picked him if you just really hate autoattacking.

Velzard of KozOct 25, 20161 votes

If you break your right-mouse-button but q is still fine. jk.

Nameless VoiceOct 25, 20161 votes

But wait, but how do you move without the right mouse button?

I know you can ult from the fountain, but it won't help much if you can't go to lane first to farm and level up.

MaizieaOct 26, 20162 votes

You can just aim Q in lane and your character will walk there until it's in reach to land a Q in that location? right?

Glory ln DeathOct 25, 20162 votes

That's like saying you pick Kog'maw for his passive, or Zyra before it got reworked.

Auz the RipperOct 25, 20168 votes

The difference is that karthus can legitimately do things with his passive other than petty revenge.

UnpaladinOct 25, 20167 votes

Oh consarn it, you're not supposed to bring logic into Gameplay discussion! K-Karthus is weak guys! The next patch will make him literally useless! DELETE THIS

Supreme Senpai69Oct 25, 20167 votes

Talked to a Karthus main. And I mean an actual one I met in-game, not someone on the boards that suddenly converted to one the day the information on the new items were released. Said the new item didn't worry him, since all his kills come from his Q and E anyway.

RavenMagusOct 25, 201610 votes

TBH this item is going to screw over combo mages like Lux and Annie - champions that have a smaller combo and thus rely on hitting all of it - far more than it will screw Karthus.

OleandervineOct 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

TBH this item is going to screw over combo mages like Lux and Annie - champions that have a smaller combo and thus rely on hitting all of it - far more than it will screw Karthus.

Lux maybe, but not Annie. Edge of Night has a cast time to activate the shield. This can be useful against Lux because you can evade her initial Q or R, but Annie can roll in with 3 stacks of Pyro, pop your shield with Q, then dump a bear on you to death.

RavenMagusOct 25, 20168 votes

The idea, of course, is that you bring up the shield and then you roll in on her, not the other way around.

If she has a stun prepared, there's actually nothing she can do but watch herself die - she has to lose a third of her damage and her stun just to pop the spell shield.

This is of course the entire point of the item; I just think the added defensive strength is a bit strong considering the item has pretty good offensive stats as is, including armor pen, which we all know is a crazy strong stat.

I'm pretty sure assassins will still build Hexdrinker too. CDR is still an okay stat, and it's worth it being able to completely ignore what a mage is doing while you stab them to death.

It Hertz When IPOct 25, 20163 votes

Annie mains will just compensate by leaving her stun charge at 3 stacks. If the target has Edge of Night, bait them into powering it up and pop with Q or W. If they don't, E+R. It'll be like pre-rework when her stun stacks weren't readily visible and Annie players were avoiding the swirly icon.

RavenMagusOct 26, 20161 votes

Yeah, that's a pretty good way about it. And Annie has decent sustained damage now with her ult (Tibbers' sustained damage used to be really bad).

It'll still be really hard to kill an assassin who's able to stack AD, armor pen, and MR at the same time - missing a whole spell is going to make it that much harder.

It just feels like AD assassins aren't going to have to try hard to outplay mages (or AP assassins) anymore - just run in, tank the spells and kill them.

JMoormannOct 26, 20161 votes

E also applies spell effects (AAing an Annie with Rylais and E up slows you) without removing your stun, so maybe even that could remove the spell shield.

It Hertz When IPOct 26, 20161 votes

Yes, but that requires the enemy to AA you. Presumably they would know how Annie's E works and NOT waste their spellshield like that.

RainbowIceeOct 25, 20162 votes

I play casually karthus and i can confirm. his ult is the most minimal part of his kit atm after all the item changes, nerfs and shields. there's no realistic way i see the ult doing 2k dmg. or even 1k dmg to a squishy. only if the enemy team has like no mr or shields. Meanwhile i can do over 1k dmg with a Q > E > W from syndra.. o there's an extra Q coming up after the W for almost 2k dmg to a whole team with syndra at low CD spams.

So this karthus main just doesn't care he likes playing karthus. Anyone that wants to see karthus do better over all this is definitely against that.

DolasaurOct 25, 20164 votes

2k damage to the enemy team. If you have ~500 AP at level 16+, your ult does ~800 pre-resists to everyone. If the enemy team averages to 100 MR, that's 400 damage each for a total of 2k damage, and that's totally within reason. If they block half of that with Locket (or all of it come next patch), then they're short an important mid-battle cooldown, and it's still probably an advantage for your team.

Supreme Senpai69Oct 25, 20161 votes

I mean it's totally a nerf to Karthus, in the sense that it's a nerf to pretty much every mage. But it's not the exclusive Karthus nerf everyone makes it out to be.

Athenes LuluOct 25, 20164 votes

So saving a spellshield for some damage instead of a CC spell that are potentially more deadly? Breaking that shield already punishes a lot of splitpushers and beefier frontliners because they lost potential to dive better.

I'd love to have a Karthus on my team if that's the case.

Robert SmithOct 25, 20163 votes

Karthus ult doesn't do 2k damage at full build. 550 base damage and even if he had 1k AP the ult would be closer to 1k damage.
Have you every tried ulting during a team fight? If anyone can cc you the ukt gets cancelled and goes in one of the longest cooldowns in the game. If no one has cc they can just kill you since you are squishy, and again the ult goes on cooldown. You're team isn't going to defend you since either peel is reserved for the ADC or they are focusing the enemy carry. Ulting before a team fight just makes then wait it off or disengage, which just makes them come back later and not worry about another ult since it,again goes a long cooldown. Ulting outside if the team fight just makes it a 4 v 5 until it goes off and you hope that the ult swayed the fight (better to just go in with E on).
Why wouldn't you save it for the telegraphed auto target ult. Most assassins go in and either die, come out full health or barely made it. Sure not. Every assassin is going to save it for just karthus but that doesn't mean no one will.
There is always the opportunity to ult single targets outside of lane, people barely surviving a Rengar jump or flashing outside a Blitz pull. Team fights aren't the only thing to happen outside if landing phase.
This item alone isn't going to break karthus but it is adding to the list of items that can and already have

N PelosiOct 25, 20163 votes

I've always Rylais Rushed and used Karthus ult to help initiate from across the map, but that's just me.

Sire HippingtonOct 25, 20163 votes

Well, most people seem to ignore 1 HUGE part on the item: It needs to channle 1.5 sec and the channle is broken by any damage or any action other than moveing. It's basically an banshies that can't be put on cd with poke, but** it's NOT a reactive spellshield like sivir or nocturn have.** Either you use it befor the fight and the first spell will proc it like banshies, or you don't use it at all till the fight is over.

And any karthus that uses the Ult once the fight is over either did already loose the fight, or already win the fight. Ideally you either use it while ypur team engages if you splitpush, are in base or whatever, or you dive into the fight and try to die and make use of your passive while the fight still is going on, includeing the ult while the fight is all going. You want that ult damage on all 5 opponents, not just on the last 2 survivers. And if an assasin uses it to block an pre-emptive karthus ult, they don't have it to block eventual cc in the following fight, so i'd call that win/win for karthus.

Troll for TrumpOct 26, 20163 votes

Thing is, doing R at the beginning of the fight:

Makes him a sitting duck. With all the mobility, range, and CC in this meta, he probably won't pull it off. If he's far enough from the fight where he can R safely, he's probably too far away from the fight altogether. Using it at the beginning of the fight require more coordination for you to get your teammates to go in when you ult ot pop spellshields/zhonyas as well.

Generally, it's more reliable to ult post-death.

Big LincolnOct 25, 20162 votes

i guess all it takes for people to upvote what I said at the start is for hatedaddy to post it too

wew

SohleksOct 25, 20162 votes

When I'm playing Karthus I rush Rylias. The slow is the best increase of dps and utility as well as it ensures more Q hits

Then ideally as Karthus I ult just prior to a teamfight engage from a safe spot. Fighting at lower health puts psychological strain on the enemy team and it allows me as Karthus to throw more Q during my passive doing greater total damage.

With Rylias slow it turns my ult into soft engage.

Funnily Kennen is another champion I used to claim creates a psychological advantage over the enemy team as the power of his ult prevents ever clumping as a group. But it also prevents spreading apart for fear of death. Turns out Kennen's just Overpowered :D

What other league o legend champions use psychology to their advantage?

MarimbaMasterOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

When I'm playing Karthus I rush Rylias. The slow is the best increase of dps and utility as well as it ensures more Q hits

Then ideally as Karthus I ult just prior to a teamfight engage from a safe spot. Fighting at lower health puts psychological strain on the enemy team and it allows me as Karthus to throw more Q during my passive doing greater total damage.

With Rylias slow it turns my ult into soft engage.

Funnily Kennen is another champion I used to claim creates a psychological advantage over the enemy team as the power of his ult prevents ever clumping as a group. But it also prevents spreading apart for fear of death. Turns out Kennen's just Overpowered :D

What other league o legend champions use psychology to their advantage?

Definitely Brand does with his ultimate and the whole clumping thing. Evelynn, Shaco and Rengar provide a psychological pressure with their invisibility ganks. I would also argue Annie's stun provides that sort of pressure as well.

YumaS2AstralOct 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Definitely Brand does with his ultimate and the whole clumping thing. Evelynn, Shaco and Rengar provide a psychological pressure with their invisibility ganks. I would also argue Annie's stun provides that sort of pressure as well.

And that's why I like to pair things like Brand + Rengar, or Kha'Zix + Malphite, etc

YuGiHoOct 25, 20162 votes

for an ad assassin there is nothing you want to shield from karth other than his ult

HateDaddyOct 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

for an ad assassin there is nothing you want to shield from karth other than his ult

Karthus has 3 other spells just in case you didn't know. 2 of which to a metric fuckton of damage. And you speak as if Karthus is designed to win lane, outduels everything and still be one of the best teamfighting chanpions in the game.

Skia AsteriOct 25, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Karthus has 3 other spells just in case you didn't know. 2 of which to a metric fuckton of damage. And you speak as if Karthus is designed to win lane, outduels everything and still be one of the best teamfighting chanpions in the game.

Two of which cannot be spell shielded. (wall and defile)

But if the other team does not have anything worth spell shielding other than Karthus ult, they deserve to lose.

Auz the RipperOct 25, 20161 votes

Wall can be spellshielded just like veigar's cage

SpecterVonBarenOct 25, 20161 votes

His Q is on such a low cooldown that there's no reason to waste EoN just to stop one Q when the ability is all about using it over and over again.

YuGiHoOct 26, 20161 votes

right thats like using it to stop an eve q, no point unless that single spell is going to kill you on its own

EndlessCycleOct 25, 20162 votes

Because Karthus has a 1% pick rate, most of these people here complaining on the boards don't play him, or play him once or twice and give up because he's hard to play effectively, but they just sum it up to him being bad as a champion.

AeszarckOct 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Because Karthus has a 1% pick rate, most of these people here complaining on the boards don't play him, or play him once or twice and give up because he's hard to play effectively, but they just sum it up to him being bad as a champion.

Basically. Karthus's 1% playrate screams "damsel in distress" to the Boards and lots of people seem to feel obligated to protect him.

ChaoticPineconeOct 25, 20162 votes

"Champion has a low pickrate. That must mean its okay for Riot to introduce items to make that pickrate even lower."

Kingdom CornOct 26, 20162 votes

I think karthus is like gangplank... The only reason you should ult early game is to KS I mean you are karthus you are one of the best if not THE BEST HYPER CARRY IN THE GAME... Like if a karthus ks's me I am fucking happy, please keep doing that.