Increase Sion's base HP, lower HP granted from W

The Ecdysiast·Aug 28, 2016·2 votes·944 views

As it stands, compared to the other Juggernauts and Tanks he has around 300 less base hp than they do at level 18. So if he was cut off from farm he's at a huge disadvantage just because it's calculated for the 500 a fed solo-lane Sion would have.

As it stands, he's usually playing catch-up towards the HP that every other champion in his sub-class would already have.

So they should just increase his base while lowering the HP granted from unit kills. That way, he can have more HP from his w without being hurt worse than other juggernauts if he's locked out of farm.

28 Comments

JbelsAug 28, 20162 votes

He's not a Juggernaut...he's a tank, for god sake...

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=NMF Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5rQ3Tt8Y,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-28T23:29:28.291+0000)

He's not a Juggernaut...he's a tank, for god sake...

classification isnt the argument the OP is trying to make... he thinks he should get more hp in base stats cuz other champs have a higher base hp at lvl 18 then Sion

JbelsAug 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5rQ3Tt8Y,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-28T23:31:22.513+0000)

classification isnt the argument the OP is trying to make... he thinks he should get more hp in base stats cuz other champs have a higher base hp at lvl 18 then

It doesn't matter, he's spreading misinformation about a champion, and I won't tolerate it. Juggernauts are balanced differently than Tanks are. If Sion were being balanced as a juggernaut, he would have much more base health and stats. But he's balanced as a tank, which makes all the difference.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 28, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=NMF Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5rQ3Tt8Y,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-28T23:34:10.641+0000)

It doesn't matter, he's spreading misinformation about a champion, and I won't tolerate it. Juggernauts are balanced differently than Tanks are. If Sion were being balanced as a juggernaut, he would have much more base health and stats. But he's balanced as a tank, which makes all the difference.

fair point...

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

Care to prove that?

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

Actually, for a tank the difference is even higher. So, sorry I called him a juggernaut but he's 400 health lower than a tank compared to just 300 for a juggernaut.

PermabannedGarenAug 29, 20162 votes

Any Sion that can't farm enough to more than gain the base health other tanks have is a bad Sion.

It's so incredibly easy to farm with him. His Q destroys minion waves.

Sion is fine.

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

I'm not saying he won't gain it.

I'm pointing out that it takes time. You're playing catch-up until you match them. And any other juggernaut will have killed you plenty. He's at a decent spot, but still doesn't have an even match with top picks.

PermabannedGarenAug 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying he won't gain it.

I'm pointing out that it takes time. You're playing catch-up until you match them. And any other juggernaut will have killed you plenty. He's at a decent spot, but still doesn't have an even match with top picks

Stop calling Sion a juggernaut. He isn't.

And nah. It's incredibly easy to play safe with Sion.

"Any other juggernaut will have killed you plenty" lol, is that what you tell yourself when you feed or something? In most match ups you can only die if you're ignorant of the match up and play it badly.

The only juggernaut who is really a counter to Sion in lane is Darius. Sion does okay against Illaoi and should have no issues with Garen. Mordekaiser should be a farm lane as long as you're not dumb enough to try to man fight him.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 28, 20161 votes

lol hmm how bout NO he is one of the few champs that get free hp through out the game with out building hp items he needs to have a lower base hp to balance it out. and if u are getting locked out of farm it happens to every champ depending on the match up. dont blame his hp for being out played.

The EcdysiastAug 28, 20161 votes

So, you don't know how to play against Sion and think he's too strong..?

He doesn't get free HP, as I told you. All he does a is play catch-up towards the HP everyone else in his class would already have.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 28, 20161 votes

no he gets free hp all game on his passive for W how does he not?

The EcdysiastAug 28, 20161 votes

He has 300 less than any other juggernaut.

So until he gets 300 from his W, he's not getting "free HP," he's catching up to regular HP.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 28, 20161 votes

sions base hp at lvl 1 without runes or masteries/items is 542 with +73 per lvl for a total at lvl 18 of 1783 garen base hp at lvl 1 616 + 84 per lvl for a total of 2048 that is less then 300 difference

garen dont gain hp for free on his W so if sion was to farm a normal game say 225 cs and its just plain cs that is 2 hp per cs which would be 450 hp

1783+450 hp = 2223hp with no items no runes no masteries and garen is still 2048 hp so sion will end up with more hp end of game then the other "juggernauts" just by farming .....

FurretHasAGlockAug 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5rQ3Tt8Y,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-08-28T23:05:48.611+0000)

sions base hp at lvl 1 without runes or masteries/items is 542 with +73 per lvl for a total at lvl 18 of 1783 garen base hp at lvl 1 616 + 84 per lvl for a total of 2048 that is less then 300 difference

garen dont gain hp for free on his W so if sion was to farm a normal game say 225 cs and its just plain cs that is 2 hp per cs which would be 450 hp

1783+450 hp = 2223hp with no items no runes no masteries and garen is still 2048 hp so sion will end up with more hp end of game then the other "juggernauts" just by farming .....

I think garen is a bad example considering how he gets armor and MR off minions...

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Derpasaurus Trex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5rQ3Tt8Y,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-08-28T23:20:58.042+0000)

I think garen is a bad example considering how he gets armor and MR off minions...

you could state that, but we are talking solely HP here and my point is valid

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

You just did the math proving exactly my point.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You just did the math proving exactly my point.

actually i proved that sion gets more hp then the juggernauts for free

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

Yes. AFTER 265 HP. Until then, he has less. Until then, he is not gaining any extra--he's having to catch-up in hp.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes. AFTER 265 HP. Until then, he has less. Until then, he is not gaining any extra--he's having to catch-up in hp.

no he ends up with more hp there fore he dont need a buff for hp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZxzJGgox_E

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

You've made it quite clear you're either trolling or don't speak enough English to understand what I'm saying. Either way, I'm sorry you wasted my time.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You've made it quite clear you're either trolling or don't speak enough English to understand what I'm saying. Either way, I'm sorry you wasted my time.

no not trolling you just refuse to see the stats and the math that sion which you must play other wise you wouldnt care to argue , he gets free hp with his w +2hp per minion +10hp per large monster and champion kill is an infinite scaling passive that in order not to make him too broken riot chose to balance him by lowering his base hp. no other champ in the game gets hp just for farming cs... and i have proven that you take two similar type of champs that with sions passive on W at end lvl 18 both having the same amount of cs that sion will have more hp then the other champ.

but ill make a deal we will increase sions base hp and limit his scaling hp to .5 cs and 5 per large monster /champ kill and to make similar champs even with sion cuz that is what you are asking for that their hp per lvl scaling is increased by 10%

would that make you happy?

or do you jsut want sion to have the most hp? because guess what he normally has that in games.

JbelsAug 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes. AFTER 265 HP. Until then, he has less. Until then, he is not gaining any extra--he's having to catch-up in hp.

You get 2 HP per minion and 10 per cannon minion. assuming you farm perfectly, that's 12 health per wave, 22 health per cannon wave, which I believe there is one every other wave. If that's the case, you're earning 34 health every two waves. That means you should break even at about 16 waves. A new wave spawns every 30 seconds, so you should be fine at 10 minutes? That's way before the ADC is doing that much damage, same with the mage.

And either way, even if my math is wrong and it takes longer, that is a very small breaking even point, especially when I've had games where we went into hyper late game and I had 1000 bonus health from my W

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

He just did the math to prove me right. That was exactly the point I was trying to make.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He just did the math to prove me right. That was exactly the point I was trying to make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-KPhJ9-vs

The EcdysiastAug 29, 20161 votes

So, as you just proved, without the increase from his W is his HP 265 less than Garen's. As I stated in the OP.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 29, 20161 votes

you can twist your rhetoric any way you want... but sion doesnt need an hp buff because through out the game he will get more hp by the passive on his W granting him infinite hp that has no cap that he can stack for ever. there for by that passive he deserves zero buffs to his base hp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W155HoaMJo