Lots of Tank threads, one obvious reason

The Ecdysiast··2 votes·367 views

Instead of replying to all these threads that are wondering why tanks can't tank, I'll make one to explain the reason: #Tank items were nerfed.

Unlike every other class update, where most champions of the class were changed and their items were buffed, Riot didn't want to make the same mistake. So they went the complete opposite direction and only changed 3 champions to suit their new weaker item changes. That means the rest of the tanks (read: the top lane tanks), got completely screwed over.

Their stated goal with the items was to make it so that you are less effective against the opposite damage type from the defense you buy. So armor/MR was increased while health was reduced, since health is defense against both. That had the additional adverse effect of nerfing each champion's abilities instead of just their defenses, since most of them scale HP for shields and/or damage. But, again, only 3 champions were changed to suit these new items. A few of the rest received small buffs that in no way compensate for what was lost (ex. Poppy gained +2% damage on her Q even though tanks lost over 10% of their available HP).

#Then three additional problems were introduced:

  1. ADC items: Bork had some AS switched to AD, so ADCs became more suited to fight higher armor enemies. Major crit items had their costs reduced to compete with lethality builds--which weren't nerfed.
  2. Support items: Buffed and changed. So add around 1000 effective health to any squishy target if they have an enchanter, on top of whatever lifesteal they buy on their own.

#And #3. New Runes The new runes added a heap of damage to the game, but the only defense options you have don't stack up to the old runes. On the plus side, damage was even added to tank runes. But that doesn't help you do your job of surviving long enough to get several ability rotations to CC the enemies.

12 Comments

Apocalypsic2 votes

Tanks all got better this patch?

PhearBunny2 votes

no.. Ornn did. That's it lol.

Apocalypsic2 votes

No.. way more than Ornn did.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

The only tanks in the top SIXTY-FIVE champions are Rammus and Sion.

So... no, no they haven't. Ornn isn't even among the top 65.

Apocalypsic2 votes

not sure where you got that blatantly incorrect piece of information from, considering Leo is actually one of the strongest supports in the game this patch and taric is not shortly behind (just to name a few examples)

The Ecdysiast1 votes

See, now where you're wrong is in calling them tanks. They are both Guardians, and Taric is actually an enchanter.

Neither of them is a top lane tank, neither of them builds Sunfire.

You're not exactly wrong that they're "tanks" in the top 65, but they are NOT the tanks we're talking about. This entire thread is about solo lane tanks.

Sure, Taric and Leona are doing well, that's because this is an ADC meta and Ardent was just nerfed. Their winrated do not reflect individual performance, rather they reflect synergy with ADCs in the new runes system.

Boulderox1 votes

if you weren't in the top % of tanks pre rework, you stay relevant. Maokai is still up there for a great tank. But it comes down to the fact that the new runes prefer damage damage and more damage, while giving tanks LATE GAME boosts, which fail to do anything because games are the SHORTEST they have ever been as of now which just adds to the load that tanks have, add on sprinkled nerfs here and there to tank items over the last season and you have a hot mess of hyper snowballs, while the point tanks shine is unattainable by most games. Damage outweighs the defenses after all the changes to AD and the runes that add adaptive damages.

In all, the good get better, the bad get worse, and the game favors fast snowball damage prone gameplay, while throwing tank stats to the end game that never comes and can't do their job.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Tanks 'nerfed'

Maokai buffed, Stoneplate is the most broken item, adaptive helm buffed three times and is overpowered, righteous glory, locket abuse, bramble 'auto win' vest, thornmail.

Yeah, tanks were 'nerfed', by having items buffed and overtunned and no changes to their kits.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Yes. Maokai was one of the three changed for the tank update, to suit the all around item nerf.

Stoneplate is broken... on Cho'gath, whose ultimate scales the HP but ignores the intended damage reduction. Bramble vest does nothing to the strong ADCs, who have the range to kill the backline and ignore tanks due to the targeted nature of auto attacks in this game. Locket is locket, it's for tanky supports to compete with enchanters and mages.

AirKingNeo1 votes

80-80 resists item with a 50% damage reduction active for 4 seconds, for the cheap ass cost of 2500 gold? Sounds very broken.

Bramble literally makes tanks, who should lose lane to bruisers, auto win.

Locket HP scaling?

Tanks literally only take reasonable damage from marksmen, which also means marksmen damage is only reasonable against tanks.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Sure, it sounds broken when you remove the context that is the rest of the items in the game which favor other classes.

My favorite example of removing context is old Gangplank's kit, which sounds insanely overpowered if you take it alone:

Slowing, stacking poison on every auto attack, Long-ranged critically striking targeted ability that grants extra gold on unit kills and applies both his passive and spellblade, Cleanse that also heals and scales 100% AP, Permanent bonus AD and MS, increases and applies half the increased value to nearby allies in a large radius, Global, slowing, large AoE damaging ability that scales 140% AP.

And you're just plain wrong on that last point. Bruisers beat tanks even with bramble, considering the damage it deals is minimal.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I didn't remove the context and you gave a kit of a champion WITHOUT issuing its numbers.

Clearly, tanks having a cheap, overstat item with the second best active in the game might be, and is, very overpowered.

And you're just plain wrong on that last point. Bruisers beat tanks even with bramble, considering the damage it deals is minimal.

Can you give an example of a bruiser beating a tank who has Bramble Vest in an otherwise even matchup? Maokai vs anyone is a good example. Also, how is 15 magic damage reflected + 40% of all onhit healing reflected as true damage 'minimal' damage?

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