Tenacity

OlafRagnarson·Nov 17, 2015·1 votes·403 views

When only ONE item gives a specific stat, why even have that stat?

13 Comments

MimyNov 17, 20152 votes

Galio

luckmalloryNov 17, 20151 votes

Because it could be toxic to the game if you could stack it. Have you played vs irelia with merc treads and the 15 percent tenacity from the masteries? Morg snare in a team fight last like .75 seconds

OlafRagnarsonNov 17, 20151 votes

Okay, any other reasons besides one champion?

OlafRagnarsonNov 17, 20151 votes

Haha but stacking crits, lifesteal, cdr, slows on top of slows...thats no problem? But someone having the ability to build in a way to counter CC is toxic? So what are you saying is that CC is not counterable. Fantastic.

luckmalloryNov 17, 20151 votes

It has the ability to be extremely toxic and to completely counter someones kit. If a champion is completely CC reliant and the other person just stacks a ton of Tenacity your entire kit is worthless. That is toxic. I used Irelia because she is the only person who can get her tenacity to such high levels and if you have ever played Gnar and gone against an irelia after she built merc treads you would know exactly what I am talking about above.

OlafRagnarsonNov 17, 20151 votes

Thats like saying if someone stacks MR against and AP champion that champion's kit is worthless.

Thats not toxic, thats just counter building. And in doing so, you give something up. For example if went defensive mysteries in the old system with Zephyr, yes I would have 45 percent resistance...but I gave up the the AD tree and bought a not so strong weapon to achieve that.

Basically you are saying no one should be allowed to counter CC because that's toxic. What a completely ridiculous statement.

luckmalloryNov 17, 20151 votes

Again you are completely wrong here. You are using a slippery slope argument saying well if this exists then why doesn't this? Can a person stack a ton of MR against APs? yeah they can however there is sufficient counterplay to that. You can build magic penetration and negate a portion of what they build against you. This is fair.

Tenacity however does not have anything that can be built against it. There is no item or potion or whatever the extends the duration of CC so that you can somewhat counter people building tons of tenacity. That is why Riot doesnt include it.

Again, go int oa custom match, take the tenacity in the mastery tree then build merc treads and play irelia with 3 people around. Have gnar ult her into a wall and w stun her. She is stunned for .85 seconds of a possible 3 and a half seconds. There is not a single thing Gnar can build or do to counteract that. Irelia just has a ton of tenacity and Gnar has to deal with the fact that his kit no longer works against her. That is toxic and unfair.

A tank stacking MR against an AP is not because the Mage has access to magic pen in masteries, runes, items, and in some cases abilities that do the opponents max health as damage.

also i use Irelia because currently she is the only person that could reach that much tenacity as if there was more options such as what you are suggesting.

OlafRagnarsonNov 19, 20151 votes

If someone a lot tenacity, you can stack CC with champions. As Nautilus I can build Iceborn Gauntlets for the extra slow from its spell blade, frozen mallet and rylais. I can have so much CC.

Also, if you are going to label a repose in a debate about game play balance, try not to incorrectly label it as logical fallacy. Maybe look up the definition of slippery slop.

As an Aatrox main, I loved tenacity. Aatrox is so dependent on continuously attacking that 45 percent tenacity really made a huge difference. Now I just don't worry about it, which is fine.

But again, my point is this: There is one item that gives tenacity, so just get rid of the stat if they don't like it that much.

AbyssphereNov 17, 20151 votes

It's also on the tank elixir, in masteries and some champion kits. It's not really any less prevalent than it was last season to be honest.

OlafRagnarsonNov 17, 20151 votes

Are you kidding me? Merc Treads or Zephyr plus tenacity in defense tree gave you 45% tenacity. Now the most you can have is 20 from the merc treads and 15 from the mysteries, for a total of 45. And your only option for that is merc treads now, and also, the tenacity is in a place that many champions wont be using.

So, we have half the items now that give tenacity, 10 less total possible, and realistically only 20 for most champions IF they build Merc treads, but the game may call for ninja tabai, which it often does.

They basically made tenacity and irrelevant stat

AbyssphereNov 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Are you kidding me? Merc Treads or Zephyr plus tenacity in defense tree gave you 45% tenacity. Now the most you can have is 20 from the merc treads and 15 from the mysteries, for a total of 45. And your only option for that is merc treads now, and also, the tenacity is in a place that many champions wont be using.

So, we have half the items now that give tenacity, 10 less total possible, and realistically only 20 for most champions IF they build Merc treads, but the game may call for ninja tabai, which it often does.

They basically made tenacity and irrelevant stat

Eh. Zephyr was just never bought, so basically nobody is feeling the loss of tenacity on that item. If you're one of the 5 people in the entire world that bought it then that sucks for you but for the game as a whole, the deletion of Zephyr has no impact on the prevalence of tenacity. The nerf to Mercs is significant but hard to call a bad thing - I'm not sure having as much tenacity as Mercs had last year was really appropriate to be honest.

Regarding the tenacity mastery - yes it's lower in the tree than it used to be but if you really need tenacity you're probably going very far into the defensive tree anyway. Who needs to go balls deep into tenacity that doesn't build tanky?

OlafRagnarsonNov 19, 20151 votes

Aatrox, because if he stops attacking he dies. He needs to be free to auto attack to keep sustaining. CC really hurts him. 45% tenacity was fantastic on him. Zephry was amazing on him.....he could escape champions, push lanes faster, he loves the attack speed, the tenacity and cool down, and the 25 AD.

I feel the loss of Zephyr.