In defense of CertainlyT

TheDevice··7 votes·855 views

Zoe, Yasuo, Darius, and Thresh are probably CertainlyT's most complained about champions. For this, people actually have made several threads complaining about him; saying he's the "Worst developer" and so on. The only actual champion I've question his influence on was the Mordekaiser though I don't think it was CertainlyT's idea to make him a substitute adc bot lane. I'm guessing that order came from above and CertainlyT job was to make it a reality. CertainlyT also worked on one of leagues most widely embraced reworks: Warwick. To say he's the worst Dev is probably quite the opposite. He's not perfect but thats the essence of what makes him a good creator. His creations have all made heads turn in one way or another; either positively or negatively. He doesn't really make champions that are dull and uninteresting and for that, it probably makes him one of if not the best champion designers at Riot.

Back to Zoe and Yas however. These champions are truly high risk / high reward champions at the highest level. The reason so many people claim they are reward only is because most of the time they are being dominant at lower ranks where the players have limited knowledge on how how to beat them. It makes them seem far more dangerous than they really are. However, this is the exact same argument you can make for Nasus Tryndamere and several other champions that are far more successful in lower elo than higher yet people take no issue with that fact. They are actually okay with needing the proper understanding and even team understanding on how to deal with them. When it comes to Yas/Zoe people want the champ deleted and their creator to no longer work on champions. This is textbook pitchfork&torch mob mentality. These champions can be beat and are more easily beaten by players with greater knowledge of the game.

I also take issue with the contradiction that these champions are dominating games and completely carrying to victory. Why's that an issue if there are several threads complaining that Riot is favoring more premade/team-based play? Shouldn't you be happy about Yasuo being able to carry an entire team by himself? Isn't that what you're actually arguing for? I'd think you'd want more champions like Yas, or Fizz or Zoe or Tryn or Nasus to carry a game to victory almost single handedly.

I think people dislike many of his champions because of the mobility factor. I think thats the crux of the matter tbh. There is a huge portion of LoL who cannot stand fast moving objects/enemies. They emphasize "strategic" game play which I find to be included in that contradiction stated above (are you in favor of heavy team strategy or not?). They present this idea that Yasuo and Zoe and others are outside the realm of strategy with their LC$BIGPLAY$ and are more focused on fast-paced action outplays and flashy stuff. I think these champions lend a balance to team play and not destroy team play. They are also pretty fun to play as which is fairly important.

There are a few more things I could say but I think I'll leave it at that for now.

18 Comments

OurLestrade3 votes

CertainlyT is always creative with what he makes, I'll always give him credit for that.

Ahristocats3 votes

why would you defend certainlyt for mordekaiser?

he doesn't need defense, it was a great rework and i love it as an adc morde main

additionally he said it but he had no time, he rushed the rework because the juggernaut rework was supposed to come out in 2 weeks we don't know what he would have trully done to mordekaiser in a good amount of time, look at Warwick

now Zoe why the hell people are complaining i don't get it

i might get bullied into oblivion, but i prefer playing against zoe every single day rather than against veigar and syndra

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

I feel like 'bullied' is a bit of an exaggeration.

TheDevice1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5YkPUAGy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-29T13:14:08.445+0000)

why would you defend certainlyt for mordekaiser?

he doesn't need defense, it was a great rework and i love it as an adc morde main

additionally he said it but he had no time, he rushed the rework because the juggernaut rework was supposed to come out in 2 weeks we don't know what he would have trully done to mordekaiser in a good amount of time, look at Warwick

now Zoe why the hell people are complaining i don't get it

i might get bullied into oblivion, but i prefer playing against zoe every single day rather than against veigar and syndra

I'll extend and olive branch as far as morde is concerned. I do think he did the best he could with what he had to work with. Dragon minion was a cool idea and if morde was to be some adc supplement, the kit he made for him was pretty sound. My issue wasn't really with that exactly but more about the overall fact that they did it with morde. This should have been a new champion rather than reformatting an old iconic champion into a role that was way too displaced from his original.

Champs like Sion and Poppy were transformed completely while retaining and highlighting particular characteristics; albeit losing others. Morde was like a triangle shaped block being carved and disfigured just to be forcibly smashed into a star-shaped socket. It didn't feel natural and felt like a salvage attempt rather than something new and polished.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

This should have been a new champion rather than reformatting an old iconic champion into a role that was way too displaced from his original.

That would have been true if mordekaiser didn't belong to the bot lane

but in truth he did, and certainlyt explained it but no one listened, let me refresh your mind https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/KhcvQBlG-mordekaiser-change-summary-feedback-thread

"As others mentioned, Morde is still able to solo lane/jungle in our testing, but doesn't shine as brightly as he does in a duo lane. I'm comfortable with that mainly because I do not think that Mordekaiser can ever be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion given how stark his strengths and weakness profile is -- An excessive number of his lane matchups are determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent. As I began to work on his mechanics though, the thing that stood out was how defined Mordekaiser was by those stark strengths and weaknesses. To round out his kit would have been to compromise him as a champion."

and when i read that i immediatly understood that mordekaiser was the perfect duo laner because in solo lane, you won't have any help to kill people, and morde doesn't have cc/mobility due to mordekaiser's identity being a "billion of damage no cc no mobility champion" he's THE juggernaut, and that would never work in solo lane except if you countered an enemy in selection, or your jungler helped you

so if you won't have help in sololane why bother? just go bot and get a support to kill people

mordekaiser bot lane made sense to me, and when i understood i mained it and successed with it

Stars Shaper2 votes

In a world were Gaming Media say that "skill shouldn't be part of videogames because they should be fun" I don't expect the majority of the playerbase would try to acually improve at something rather than just expecting the game to fixate itself to the point where they can just have fun by not giving a damn and just facemelting things.

CertainlyT is one of my favorites developers even if I'd just play one of his champions (personal tastes, I just like Yasuo overall) but I can see the innovations and the fun in both playing and watch his characters.

Salson2 votes

Lol, the hell is Gaming Media?

That's some next level SJW bullshit, assuming they referred to competitive games.

Stars Shaper2 votes

A journalist said that about videogames in general when he couldn't finish the tutorial of Cuphead.

Salson1 votes

That's like saying swimming should be easy because it's fun....while not knowing how to swim.

Stars Shaper1 votes

You tell them xD

Penns1 votes

But why is certainlyt allowed to make "frustrating" champs while Fizz gets reworked and ruined for being "frustrating"? lul

Infernape1 votes

Wasn't he reworked for the sake of being reworked?

Stars Shaper1 votes

That guy will be on my ban list forever, I just hate him.

Anyway, what you guys consider frustrating is really subjective (like the fish in question for me). I can easily deal with thresh, Yasuo and Darius and they've never been a real problem for me but I can see how things can be furstrating for others.

That applyes, anyway, also to all characters.

I guess the case in question (Fizz) was reworked because he could get in, ult and kill you while also getting away without any chance given to the opposing hand if not being on the other side of the map.

Linna Excel1 votes

He needs a rework that kills his troll pole.

Void Baboon RF2 votes

Your post is garbage.

He reworked Mordekaiser. You saying "well i don't think he did because it doesn't fit my shit argument" is pathetic.

The warwick rework was garbage. You know why it's garbage? Because the only contribution he made to warwick was 1) he made all of his existing skills, which ALL carried over in one form or another, worse in the rework (his Q doesn't work half the time, his w turning on and off constantly is one of the most clunky mechanics in the game, his r can miss nuff said, his passive no longer gives him flexible sustain) but to give you the illusion that the rework wasn't a complete change for changes sake mess he effectively gave warwick a 5th skill in the form of his E, which is my second point 2) his E is literally an AoE CC that gives him free 50% damage reduction. You can put that on ANYONE and no matter how stupid and garbage the champion was before, they'd be at least semi effective with warwicks new E.

You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that to be a good game designer for league of legends you have to be designing for league of legends. He's not developing for DoTA or smite, he's developing for league of legends and i know it blows his mind but that means there are limitations to what he should be allowed to do. Breaking rules doesn't make you innovative, it doesn't make you creative, it just means you don't have any of the talent necessary to actually create something amazing within those set limitations. You're not a snowflake when your boss tells you to add 2 and 2 together and you decidethe appropriate response is to take off your pants and take a crap on the floor but apparently no one in certainlyt's life seems to care enough to have ever told him to take off that fedora.

The entire paragraph with Tryndamere and Nasus was so stupid and meaningless I don't even know where to begin. Like what. What the fuck are you saying. People hate nasus and tryndamere. High risk and high reward doesn't mean high elo bad low elo good. You can be high risk high reward in low elo. You fundamentally fail to understand the problems at hand here then handwave the hatred people have for certainlyt as just mob mentality, it's cringe worthingly stupid and lazy (you should apply to riot, they love low effort low thinking sheep who will lick meddler the janna players boots everytime he suggests they give supports more gold). People hate yasuo and zoe because they completely suck the agency out of game for all players besides the weeb who picked certainlyt's champion. Do you understand this. Zoe isn't high risk. She's the literal definition of low risk in league of legends because of her only playstyle which is to throw 1000 long range nukes and CC WHILE HAVING SOME OF THE MOST FORGIVING MECHANICS FOR MISS SKILLSHOTS IN THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME, SHE LITERALLY CREATES A VIKTOR GRAVITY FEILD WHEN SHE MISSES HER SKILL SHOTS (this is high risk to a yasuo player). Yasuo is high risk, but not high risk in game. He's high risk in champ select. Pick a mage? Free win. Pick a bruiser? Go 0/10 get reported as another worthless weeb yasuo who thinks he's too cool for school. If you think this high risk high reward playstyle is good for the game, then you're not really into MOBAs, you're into card games, where everything can be boiled down to side boards. You should go play hearthstone, it'd be more your speed.

The rest of your post is just strawman garbage. Most of it already is but you go in hard after this and it's just extra stupid. High strategy or high mechs is a false dichotomy. You can have both, neither of which is yasuo or zoe's main problems, but as i said you seem to be in love with your stawman body pillow so i'll leave you 2 alone to do w/e degenerate shit weebs do with their body pillows.

TheDevice2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Void Baboon RF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5YkPUAGy,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-12-29T15:42:28.733+0000)

Anger

Well thats a lot of emotion going on there.

So the trynd and nasus comparison is pretty reasonable. Nasus and trynd perform better at lower elo since teams lack the proper understanding on how to beat them half the time. I personally don't see how that is much different from Yasuo. Teams lack coordination or know-how to beat yas. So he's stronger in lower elos.

Actual risk is always going to be determined by the opposing teams ability to capitalize on the risky plays. Not sure how that's distorting the concept of high risk / high reward. Half the time, you only see the reward when a yas is dominating some low elo game because the enemy team does not capitalize on the risk. In higher elos the risk is far more obvious to the enemy team and they are experienced at capitalizing on it. Yas has a 49% winrate in high elo with a 9% playrate. Thats about right.

The rest of what you were saying was mostly attacking me and how I "dont like mobas" or something which is funny since I've been playing this game since 2011. (talk about a weak arguments).

Then you bring up Victor skills and Zoe skills but 90% of the boards will throw the same answer which is pretty much "different champs are different". You can't compare similar abilities between champs (I've personally done this only to get massively downvoted and bashed for even attempting to compare). The power budgets differ, the hp, the mana, the mobility, the everything. So saying one skill on one champ is just better than the other isn't going to get your argument very far.

You brought up weeb about 10 times or so lol. Idk I kind laughed every time you did I just find that word funny. Ultimately it kinda tells me that my very last paragraph was pretty spot-on. Lots of players can't stand fast-paced champions and instantly draw this parallel with anime and their flashy action stuff. So yeah. I'm going to stick with my original assessment.

Btw, where was the "strawman garbage"? Would help if you pointed it out.

Linna Excel1 votes

{quoted}

The only actual champion I've question his influence on was the Mordekaiser though I don't think it was CertainlyT's idea to make him a substitute adc bot lane. I'm guessing that order came from above and CertainlyT job was to make it a reality.

From what I remember, riot's analytics noticed that Morde players often played with a friend so that's what led them to trying morde as a bot laner. My thoughts are if that was the plan, he probably should have been tweaked to be more of a support alternative than an ADC replacement.

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