It's 2015 and Red buff still slows on ranged champions

FalconPawwwwnch·Jan 11, 2015·48 votes·5,260 views

Meanwhile omen's slow was removed for "no counterplay" when red buff has just as little counterplay, but because it benefits ADCs and not melees, Riot won't remove it

52 Comments

AziriouslyJan 11, 201510 votes

It's also a temporary buff, unlike Randuins. Randuins applied for the rest of the game once completed. Red Buff is no where near like that.

XtremeyJan 11, 201514 votes

{quoted}

It's also a temporary buff, unlike Randuins. Randuins applied for the rest of the game once completed. Red Buff is no where near like that.

lets talk about the massive innate advantage ranged champions have over melee to begin with.

TaarkiJan 11, 20155 votes

And the multiple gap closers that almost every melee champion has.

KwangoTangoJan 11, 201523 votes

[deleted]

AziriouslyJan 11, 20152 votes

I wouldn't say there's a problem with ranged VS melee more than there's a problem with older champions being, well, old with outdated moves. However, that's not to say every melee should be able to have equal footing with ranged champs.

ecneregillebJan 12, 20154 votes

Um... every one of those champions has either a heavy slow INSIDE their kit, or a pull of some sort. Red buff is actually further OP on them.

Lmao.

Black Star 1299Jan 12, 201511 votes

Poor Garen cries in a corner...

VaurenJan 12, 20157 votes

Don't forget about El Numero Uno Mordekaiser He has literally no form of cc or movement ability. He's just a wandering hulk of metal that is obsessed with pain.

Ayame IsakiJan 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget about El Numero Uno He has literally no form of cc or movement ability. He's just a wandering hulk of metal that is obsessed with pain.

\m/

supes the lostJan 14, 20152 votes

Actually, Mordokaiser is the only champion in league to have absolutely no way to close the gap between him and the enemy, he has no slows, no speed boots, no leaps. He has to rely on summoner spells, items, and teammates to close gaps.

TaarkiJan 15, 20151 votes

but only because he has a speed gain with no chance of getting slowed. so he got there first.

AkesgerothJan 13, 20151 votes

This isn't something which is going to get fixed in LoL unless they change the way the game works. DotA 2 addresses this through turn rates, auto-attack animations and item passives which only work for melee.

FalconPawwwwnchJan 12, 201517 votes

Red Buff is also free, and Omen costs about 3k gold

ecneregillebJan 12, 20153 votes

I also agree with this comment. Red buff was already nerfed in the preseason patch (duration), ranged champs having it is really no different than a melee champ having it anyways. If a melee champ is within range to attack you, the slow is applied. If a ranged champ is within range to attack you, the slow is applied. What's the difference? There really isn't one.

FalconPawwwwnchJan 12, 20155 votes

The difference is that if a melee champion applies a red buff slow to a ranged champion, the ranged champion can still fight the melee champion.

If a ranged champion applies a red buff slow to a melee champion, the melee champion is hopeless unless he is loaded with mobility

AziriouslyJan 12, 20153 votes

If a melee champion applies a red buff slow on a ranged champ, chances are the ranged champ will have no chance in fighting back assuming they're on equal grounds. The advantage to ranged champs is obviously their range, and without that, they're hopeless to fight against melee bruisers. But of course this is entirely champ vs champ dependent.

Mr Wright IIJan 12, 20152 votes

Tristana Ezreal Jayce Vayne Lucian but all these champions can get away with almost no problem then kite the shit outta them

AziriouslyJan 13, 20153 votes

So no ranged champion is allowed to have a distinct strength in their kiting potential? That seems unfair to say and unrealistic to implement.

Mr Wright IIJan 13, 20151 votes

If a melee champion applies a red buff slow on a ranged champ, chances are the ranged champ will have no chance in fighting back assuming they're on equal grounds. This was my point, you dont even have to be on equal grounds, they just kite, so that is invalid

SEKAIJan 11, 201510 votes

There is a reason to why human beings shifted from melee to primarily ranged weapons of today.

Because it's just better, you get more range and larger impact. Why would you choose a say dagger, bastard sword or a katana over pistol, shotgun or a SMG? Unless ofc that's really your thing and you can really out plan and overpower the enemy using a melee weapon because you really master it to some degree, but for general public (which is like 90% of us), guns are a much safer and better option.

Which is exactly what is happening in LoL. Melee has to work many ways around, whether using wit or number to get to 1 single ranged character hopefully to score something, while being peeled off or simply byebye dashaway. They see you from miles away, they can kill you from miles away and they can escape you from miles away. Fighting melee into ranged is always an uphill fight.

BUT,

This is a game, which means some form of balance between melee and ranged should be applied. Yes ranged should still remain an upper hand with a distance and melees should die if get caught fire in a distance, but ranged should die if the melee really gets to them. This is a game, not a war.

KwangoTangoJan 11, 20158 votes

[deleted]

YOU BEEN WARNEDJan 11, 20158 votes

Twisted Fucking Fate. Nobody likes to play against a good one, nobody.

Even Lulu sometimes.

lDontLiftIcarryJan 11, 201512 votes

actually its possible to take zero damage from both red and blue due to the AI being bugged as fuck now on the NEW summoners rift.

I've tested it myself there are specific spots that will aggro the buff and deaggro the buff but not reset it. you can take under 300 damage easily even if you're bad at kiting.

Its pretty disgusting.

AdeyemonJan 11, 20155 votes

Those bugs have been there for like every :D... How do you think 12s jg

AbrakaDoodleJan 11, 20151 votes

Today as elise jungle, the blue buff was trapped between the small ones, and was just standing still. It was lvl 1 and I didnt need a leash, now thats broken. Also, I get minion blocked in a tower dive. They really need to fix this stuff

ErijianJan 12, 20156 votes

Garen "Oh, you're going to slow me with Red Buff? Hah. I can counter that!"

Garen activates Decisive Strike to break free of Slow

Garen gets slowed by next auto attack ruining his Speed Boost and wasting his slow break

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=1002309&d=1404168306

Chaotic ReksJan 12, 20152 votes

what's sad is they won't let us have old garen VU back...

TheKingDodoJan 11, 20155 votes

Gnar :3

lDontLiftIcarryJan 11, 20155 votes

fucking IKR?

TheFrozenIslesJan 11, 20154 votes

I can agree with this.

Noble ŁieJan 12, 20154 votes

This has never bothered me one bit, but I love melee champs, so I'm gonna pretend i does.

Prometheus856Jan 11, 20153 votes

I have no pity for melee champs while assassins exist. You can go ahead and nerf fizz, zed, akali, panth and kat, and THEN we can talk about removing the one weapon ADCs have against them.

RatbertJan 11, 20157 votes

"the one weapon" kalista exists (and hypermobile champs), supports exist. You literally have an entire team to protect you.

Prometheus856Jan 12, 20151 votes

yeah, because they're weak as shit, lol. If league were a 4v4 tomorrow, support is the class that would disappear, and then ADC after that, because there's just no way that they can stay alive without a teammate dedicated to protecting them. Inb4 "vayne and kalista," they're the exceptions. Vayne, Kalista, MAYBE Corki and Tristana. You sure as shit would stop seeing Sivir, Cait, Varus, etc. etc.

But whatever, excuse my counter circle-jerk. And you idiots wonder why riot doesn't talk on these forums...

Rinky DinkyJan 12, 20151 votes

That might be the dumbest thing I have read on these boards.

And Alot of dumb shit circulates on these boards.

RatbertJan 12, 20151 votes

Sivir? A good sivir can block 2 spells if she gets BV. And them speed boosts. Corki isn't as safe as she is if she's good with the e.

Mr Wright IIJan 13, 20151 votes

lmfao? do you even adc bro? i lolkinged you, this comment is worthless, all of his are, anyways, siver would still be good, and so would tris? lol? also isnt the point of tanks is to PROTECT the adc? baddies op?

flibitydooJan 12, 20153 votes

Eventually, people will learn of the glory that is so righteous for melees. item 3800

Samflash3Jan 12, 20154 votes

Totally tubular and Righteous, bro! Olaf

Irelia BotJan 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Eventually, people will learn of the glory that is so righteous for melees.

I get that on supports with talisman of ascension. IT works great for them. Have one for going in and one for going out or bot hfor going out of you have an "OH SHIT" moment.

MarenjiiJan 12, 20153 votes

Some of the ADC mains are really spoiled. Randuin's slow was HARD COUNTERED BY AN ITEM THAT HAD A FRACTION OF THE COST AND DID NOT TAKE AN ITEM SLOT! But nope, got to remove the on hit MS slow RO had, and allow ranged to apply red buff. Can't chase them, can't run from then when they have it. It is absolute cancer!

KonidiasJan 12, 20152 votes

"Why isn't my big, fat and immobile potato of a champion beating this ranged high damaging mobile champion!?!?! RIOT PLZ FIX THIS SO I CAN STAND THERE AND STUPIDLY BEAT ON SOMETHING UNTIL IT DIES LIKE THE DROOLING POTATO CAVEMAN THAT I WAS BORN TO BE"

WTFMateeJan 12, 20151 votes

Its people like you that cause terrible changes which lead people after a huge nerf like this (think of warmogs and how people hated bruisers) to qq about how weak a a class of champions are because of a nerf.

People complained on forums so much about bruisers and they nerfed them hard. Now people complain how weak bruisers are.

The grass isnt always greener on the other side.

lojicianJan 12, 20152 votes

Different groups of people. Low elo adc players who can't really kite complain about bruisers being op. High elo top lane players during metas in which the professionals stop playing bruisers entirely complain about bruisers being up.

RikariJan 12, 20151 votes

Ranged > Melee Red Buff > item 3022 why doesn't the passive work like this

coppinslingerJan 12, 20151 votes

Current melee vs. ranged is balanced

Current melee vs. ranged with dash/flash abilties is broken af

TerchioJan 12, 20151 votes

It maxes at 15% slow. Do you realize how small that is? Nearly useless in non-chase situations. That's Rylai at its worst level. That's less than Gangplank's max slow on his Passive. When was the last time his slow was considered overbearing?

It's as simple as this. Red buff has to do something. As it is, red buff is as useless as it can possibly be without actually being of zero value. Sure, Riot is making it super hard to get reliable slows such as Randuin's and Frozen Mallet, but even so, anyone can get 30% slow at a range, 40% if melee. As a temporary effect, it's simply not gamebreaking. Blue does at least as much with its early game 20% CDR on your CC skills.

Rinky DinkyJan 12, 20151 votes

lol k

Unironic SJWJan 12, 20151 votes

I love these ADC QQ threads because they're always about 6 item ADCs that have massive peel, never miss a click ever, and all the comps have a great balance of damage, tankiness and utility. The problem is though, none of us are playing in LCS or OGN or even Diamond+. Where the average player is (somewhere around Silver or maybe low Gold), there is little peel, the team comps are awful because everyone wants to play snowballing carry champs, and by the time the ADC actually hits their power spike (usually at IE/Shiv) then the game is already decided by what top, mid and jungle did.

If you want to say ADC should be nerfed for high elo and pro play, fine. They're pretty broken there. But don't act like this ADC dominance is something you're personally experiencing.

Btw, i notice that Zed, Fizz, Lee Sin, Riven, Wukong and similar stuff stop being melee whenever the bruiser mains want to whine. Yep, every melee is Garen and Mordekaiser with their outdated kits.