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I think that Riot should remove the attack damage scaling on kayle's Ultimate.

Reksee··8 votes·8,070 views

The reworked Kayle currently has 3 abilities that are hybrid scaling. In my opinion, that's too much. And the ultimate has 100% bonus attack damage scaling AS WELL AS 80% ability power scaling. For me that is utterly overloaded. And the only ability that does scale with ability power is her w. The reason her ultimate should not have attack damage scaling is...

  1. It's an ability where Kayle is using magic so it makes sense for it to scale with ability power as opposed to attack damage.
  2. This would make full ap Kayle a potential play style.
  3. It wouldn't nerf the main purpose of AD kayle, which is to deal damage with auto attacks as opposed to your ultimate.

It is for those reasons I think Riot should remove or at the very least reduce the attack damage scaling on her ultimate For those of you who think this might streamline Kayle towards ability power too much, keep in mind her q and e passive both have hybrid scaling.

Please let me know if you think the AD scaling on Kayle's ultimate should be removed, , if you disagree please comment why. Thank you!

22 Comments

Sucction6 votes

I disagree because it just doesn't really accomplish anything. If her ultimate did no damage at all, her winrate would barely move.

It's very rare you get your ult damage off, especially later when you have the AD to make use of the scaling.

So sure, I guess, it just won't really do anything.

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree because it just doesn't really accomplish anything. If her ultimate did no damage at all, her winrate would barely move.

It's very rare you get your ult damage off, especially later when you have the AD to make use of the scaling.

So sure, I guess, it just won't really do anything.

While this may be true (i haven't seen kayles not using ult for damage because she's banned so much in draft) I just think it makes no sense to have AD scaling on her ultimate. While removing ad scaling might have very little impact it is not going to make Kayle more overloaded in the late game which is what we need at this point.

Colte2 votes

{quoted}

While this may be true (i haven't seen kayles not using ult for damage because she's banned so much in draft) I just think it makes no sense to have AD scaling on her ultimate. While removing ad scaling might have very little impact it is not going to make Kayle more overloaded in the late game which is what we need at this point.

i ban kayle to avoid getting feeder kayles on my team (it's always the enemy kayle that some how becomes godzilla even after 0/15/0

ASilenceof3Parts1 votes

I tried playing kayle after her update and had marginal success but she's kinds team reliant imo. The games that went ok or great were the ones where junglers either focused top lane early or where another lane was winning to take pressure off of top and gave time to scale. The games that went horrible is where there was no other pressure anywhere on the map. She kinda requires teams to think differently than usual gameplay which probably isnt bad at higher elos but is near impossible for people in low elo

Saianna4 votes

What if Kayles R didn't have any AP/AD scalling, but instead she accumulated damage dealt to her when she uses R and portion of that damage is being used as AOE? Then her AP/AD could scale the modifier of portion of damage. That way she gotta bait others to use big guns at her so she can use it for her R damage.\

Damagewise it should be the same'ish as it is now with potiential to deal more if used smartly.

Daddy of Chains1 votes

So with this sense if Kayle or her ultimate target gets urgot ulted she would just one shot everyone near? Sounds pretty balanced

Saianna1 votes

Urgots R when pulls a champion changes champion into minion for that insane damage. Or something like that.

There are always some ways to balance some stupid-abuse cases like urgot tho :P

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

What if Kayles R didn't have any AP/AD scalling, but instead she accumulated damage dealt to her when she uses R and portion of that damage is being used as AOE? Then her AP/AD could scale the modifier of portion of damage. That way she gotta bait others to use big guns at her so she can use it for her R damage.\

Damagewise it should be the same'ish as it is now with potiential to deal more if used smartly.

That does sound like a really cool idea because it would require good timing in order to be most effective.

underscores2222 votes

Kayle's roots are as a hybrid champ. Her old, old, old passive converted AD to AP and AP to AD (which was super fun and also kinda broken, but went along with vlad's AP to HP and HP to AP passive and singed's Mana to HP and HP to Mana passive) Since riot has been "clarifying" build paths since season 2 or 3, a lot of the hybrid items have gone by the wayside. It's nice to see some double ratios hanging around.

In addition, since Kayle can't attack during the animation, the AD scaling makes it slightly less painful for AD kayles.

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

Kayle's roots are as a hybrid champ. Her old, old, old passive converted AD to AP and AP to AD (which was super fun and also kinda broken, but went along with vlad's AP to HP and HP to AP passive and singed's Mana to HP and HP to Mana passive) Since riot has been "clarifying" build paths since season 2 or 3, a lot of the hybrid items have gone by the wayside. It's nice to see some double ratios hanging around.

In addition, since Kayle can't attack during the animation, the AD scaling makes it slightly less painful for AD kayles.

If it's too painful to remove the ad scaling, at the very least reduce it. She has 2 other hybrid scaling abilities.

underscores2221 votes

I guess my point is, so what? She's supposed to have both, it is one of her core aspects and goes back to her character design roots. Since she can't auto during the cast time of the ability, it's not like she's getting a ton of burst damage. It's only bonus AD, which means it's, at most, around 200 damage late game, which really isn't that much compared to what she could be putting out with autos.

And yes, that's assuming she's building some hybrid items like gunblade. If she goes straight AD, it'll likely be higher, but she won't get any benefit from the AP scaling so the overall damage on the ult wouldn't be much different.

If you want to nerf her (and I think she does need a lot of tuning) this doesn't seem like a good place to do it. Firstly, because the impact would be low and secondly because your reason for it is "I think she shouldn't have so many dual scalings" which isn't a good, gameplay evidence based reason.

5050BS2 votes

She is perma ban for me. She can go 0/12 but if the game is over 30m she will win it.

Glaricion1 votes

AD build has already been heavily disincentivised, and going all-in on AP is already viable on Kayle.

If you want Kayle to be balanced either tilt her power earlier or later.

If auto-win @ 16, make it so that it's tougher to farm at range, negating her 'weakness'.

If she gets to go online earlier, maybe get rid of her decent base stats.

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

AD build has already been heavily disincentivised, and going all-in on AP is already viable on Kayle.

If you want Kayle to be balanced either tilt her power earlier or later.

If auto-win @ 16, make it so that it's tougher to farm at range, negating her 'weakness'.

If she gets to go online earlier, maybe get rid of her decent base stats.

If removing the Ad scaling on her ultimate disincentives Kayle then you could at the very least reduce the scaling on the ultimate.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

She’s supposed to be a hybrid champion. Removing her AD scaling is a step in the wrong direction. Not to mention it weakens AP kayle with gunblade as well. It’s a nerf that won’t effectively do anything except make it more annyoing to build her in different ways. A nerf that reduces build variety is a bad nerf.

Reksee1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5PiIhnop,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-21T05:27:30.333+0000)

She’s supposed to be a hybrid champion. Removing her AD scaling is a step in the wrong direction. Not to mention it weakens AP kayle with gunblade as well. It’s a nerf that won’t effectively do anything except make it more annyoing to build her in different ways. A nerf that reduces build variety is a bad nerf.

The thing is she still has 2 other abilities that have hybrid scaling.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is she still has 2 other abilities that have hybrid scaling.

The thing is you can’t have both lots of AP and lots of AD. You have to pick one or half ass both of them. By removing the AD scaling you shoehorn kayle away from building AD or hybrid and into building pure AP, which her kit was clearly not designed to do.

Daddy Ants1 votes

I disagree.

The fact that Kayle cannot attack and has to channel her ultimate is enough of a trade off for the damage it does.

I wouldn't mind them removing the explosion damage but letting her attack during her R.

awesok1 votes

No they should not remove the ad ap scaling

  1. She has no lock down or stun.
  2. She is similar to Kogmaw if focused garbage.
  3. Champ has a terrible planning phase.
  4. If someone built armour against your ad build or magic resistance against your ap then your doing no damage... It's the same with true damage look at Reksai and Rengar massive op early game champs... The problem is that if someone went magic resistance and armour your doing negative damage. Kayle will continue to out scale you and that's a late game champ for you... If you don't understand champ go home seep tea and don't play league because the simple thing to beating kayle and killing him early game and stunning the champ at right times before his Ult.
Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

No they should not remove the ad ap scaling

  1. She has no lock down or stun.
  2. She is similar to Kogmaw if focused garbage.
  3. Champ has a terrible planning phase.
  4. If someone built armour against your ad build or magic resistance against your ap then your doing no damage... It's the same with true damage look at Reksai and Rengar massive op early game champs... The problem is that if someone went magic resistance and armour your doing negative damage. Kayle will continue to out scale you and that's a late game champ for you... If you don't understand champ go home seep tea and don't play league because the simple thing to beating kayle and killing him early game and stunning the champ at right times before his Ult.

Several things, first of all literally any other champ can be countered with MR or armor depending on their build, it should be like that. A lot of other people here are talking about how even if she has a bad early game she can still stomp late game. It's not that I don't understand the champion, it's that this comment is worded in a way that's hard for me to understand. I don't understand what you are saying that goes against removing the AD scaling.

Daddy Ants1 votes

If you remove dual scalings from Kayle then I want dual scalings removed from Akali Ezreal Kaisa Jax Tryndamere KogMaw Varus also.

If Kayle can't have them, neither should these.

Reksee1 votes

{quoted}

If you remove dual scalings from Kayle then I want dual scalings removed from Akali Ezreal Kaisa Jax Tryndamere KogMaw Varus also.

If Kayle can't have them, neither should these.

Varus doesn't have dual scaling on his abilities Kog Maw doesn't have nearly as much hybrid scaling Ezrael also has too much Kaisa has a little too much Tryndamere I have no idea Jax is just, no.

I'm not against hybrid scaling over all. I just think that Kayle has too much of it. The thing with characters like Varus or Kaisa is that building one way or the other changes your playstyle in significant ways.

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