"I fed this much gold..."

SorasMemories·Jun 9, 2015·76 votes·4,001 views

First off, I don't want to take credit for this idea. Someone else suggested it awhile ago.

I think it should be on the front page until we get it; so, I'm bringing it up again.

At the moment, we have stats to show how much gold we RECEIVED. I think we should add a stat to show how much gold we FED to the other team.

What made me want to bring this back up again is a game I just played where our mid laner jumped into a 1v4. He managed to get a kill, but also died in the process and thus gave a kill and three assists to the enemy team. He seemed to believe this was perfectly reasonable and "worth". If we had a feature to show how much gold he fed in that transaction, I think it would help people realize the error of their ways. I'm sick of players having scores like 10/15/2 and thinking that's a good score.

64 Comments

Daedalus871Jun 9, 201524 votes

A "Gold given" stat would be nice to shut up those obnoxious 20/15/3 players who whine about trash team.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

Katarina : "GG team too heavy"

WickedfatesJun 11, 20151 votes

why? people complain that a support doesnt ward when they have posted 30+ wards in a 30 min game while destroying another 10....

people will be angry and judgmental no matter what, even if the stats r there to tell them otherwise

Tryhard MittensJun 9, 201516 votes

It is an interesting thought that will never accurately account for how much gold you actually fed. A 1-5-0 person may not have fed as much gold through deaths, but if they play super passive and allow their opponent to free farm, they are also feeding gold. They also may not be applying pressure, allowing their opponent to roam and get ganks without punishment.

Just because the 15-15-10 person died a lot, doesn't mean the 1-5-0 person didn't feed a ton of gold through free farm and free roams. Also, I highly doubt the 15-15-10 person is getting killed in 1v1's. They may be dieing to over extended ganks, or they may be dieing through poor cc on their team. It isn't like glass cannon builds are hard to lock down and take out.

Why look for negative stats to assign blame? Just ask if there is anything else you could have done and worry about yourself. Report people who troll and always try to improve. Just because you know that newb claiming to be carrying is actually a detriment, doesn't mean you have to have reliable stats to prove it. Mute them and move on, it is already too late by that point, and arguing in postgame won't help anyone.

Mandang0Jun 9, 20155 votes

The point is to educate players about how their decisions impact the rest of the game, same as when people suggested 'wards placed' be a statistic. No one's complaining about that stat having been added, or being used to assign blame...

As an example, trading kills and gold in top lane typically makes the game harder for both ADCs. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad, but the point is that you need to THINK to decide which is which. Players also aren't ending up 15/15/10 because the other team's focusing pressure on their lane, it's because that player has placed a very low value on staying alive. We can get into a bunch of 'what if's about roaming, free farm, whatever, but adding the stat will still be a better reflection of players' choices than anything we have now (and there's no freer farm than the farm that's left when your lane opponent's dead).

Just to reiterate, this isn't about trying to point the finger, it's about trying to improve the playerbase. Having the stat might help players ask what else they could have done to improve - it's not an either/or... I still see it the same way as the 'wards placed' statistic.

Slamurai JackJun 9, 201510 votes

I said this the last time this thread came up, but typically, people don't get 15/15/4 scores very often. That kind of score is almost always the result of being the only strong player on a team of feeders. Most players who end a game 15/15/4 didn't get there by trading kill for kill the entire game; they usually started something like 6/1/0 and racked up a large number of deaths over time because his teammates have scores like 1/6, 0/5, and 2/7. The guy who goes 15/15/4 technically fed alot more gold than the 0/5 guy, but at least his made his presence felt in the game. That 0/5 adc is making no positive contribution to his teams chances of winning and is almost always the reason that you see 15/15 scores from teammates trying to carry his worthless ass.

It Hertz When IPJun 10, 20153 votes

This. It all boils down to two facts. Fact #1 is that in a MOBA, endgame stats will NOT tell the whole story, and that you can only know the whole story by watching the actual gameplay. Fact #2 is that most people don't seem to know fact #1. For example, the tank charges a turret and stands there taking turret fire and enemy fire, before dying. Did he feed some gold that he never earned back? Yes. But by tanking that damage, he allowed the ADC to destroy the tower unmolested. Or a jungler that flashes into the enemy team and feeds a kill and 4 assists, but steals Baron buff for his team by doing so. Or the Nasus that went 1/7 but splitpushed top lane all the way to the nexus when the enemy team was fighting his team over Dragon. Or the support that went 1/8/5 but kept her ADC alive and thoroughly fed on CS in the laning phase, causing him to go 21/2 late game and carry the game.

The dumb player says "but muh KDR". The smarter player asks "gold earned/fed?" But the really smart player asks "how did the deaths happen and what was accomplished by both sides as a result?"

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

What that tells you is you could have played better from behind and found a way to influence the game without feeding kills. That doesn't necessarily make you worse than your teammates, but it's a useful thing to be aware of anyhow.

Slamurai JackJun 11, 20151 votes

Thats not quite how it works though. If you're the only strong person on your team or are the teams main source of dps, every moment you spend not attacking, your team is getting destroyed since they're way behind. If you're 10-0 but the rest of your team is 0-10, being overly concerned with your own safety is more likely to lose you fights. Let me give an example. Look at nearly all of the top adcs on the challenger ladder. One thing they all have in common is that they play incredibly HAM on a consistent basis. The best adcs in the game constantly expose themselves to danger and put themselves at risk in order to have as much of an impact and do as much damage as possible. I'm all for playing safer and taking fewer risks in 1v1 scenarios, but staying out of danger in a team scenario means you've just put someone else on your team in danger. I'm looking at you, tanks that cower in the back behind their carries.

Aych PiiJun 12, 20151 votes

All I meant by my comment is that, had you played perfectly, you could have made that impact and done a whole lot of damage and not ended up dying. Top ADCs may play very aggressively, but they only do so because they know how to do it without getting themselves killed (most of the time). Again, I don't place the blame on you in this scenario, just pointing out that it's something you can work on. If you're the strongest person on your team, you should always be looking to at least trade 1 for 1 with one of their damage dealers in teamfights, though even that's not really ideal.

But really, the people I usually see go 15/15/4 are Katarinas who go 0/6/2 in lane and then hit teamfighting phase.

Only Play DariusJun 9, 20157 votes

When the 21/20 Tryndamere tells the 5/0 that she did nothing the entire game and that he had to carry. lol

HellioningJun 9, 20155 votes

'Report the tank, they fed so much gold, couldn't carry'.

JustMyBassCannonJun 9, 20154 votes

It could be misleading, and it would definitely open people up to getting a ton of shit, whether or not the decisions they made were right.

As far as misleading, someone with a high KDA could give up more gold than someone with more deaths than anything else, because of kill streak gold. Note that a high KDA doesn't necessarily mean they were the best player, nor that a high death count means the player is doing poorly, but it doesn't quite explain everything either.

woobeeJun 9, 20153 votes

Or "True Damage dealt to enemy champions". Twitch Vayne Ahri Darius Olaf MasterYi Velkoz Irelia I wanna know.

CrettJun 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solis Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5Lrabrlv,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-06-09T22:29:22.514+0000)

Or "True Damage dealt to enemy champions". I wanna know.

You can technically find that out by looking at "damage dealt to champions" and subtracting it by the total Physical and Magic damage dealt to champions

HaloJun 10, 20152 votes

U can see it if you look up the match online via your match history.

woobeeJul 7, 20151 votes

Corki Chogath KogMaw Zyra

Shroom JunkieJun 9, 20152 votes

Yeah. Usually a kill for a kill is never worth anyway, especially in the laning phase. It just feeds your enemy and unless you really, truly need that feed to do anything, it probably isn't worth it.

MatezoideJun 9, 201529 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Usually a kill for a kill is never worth anyway, especially in the laning phase. It just feeds your enemy and unless you really, truly need that feed to do anything, it probably isn't worth it.

No no, you see, if you die diving the enemy and getting the kill, it allows you to assert dominance and show the opponent you arent fucking around!

Mental games bro

Laughing FishJun 9, 20152 votes

Ulting with Olaf, absorbing several CC's, and then killing the enemy under their turret before dying yourself messes with their minds.

Need Gold 4 TentJun 9, 20152 votes

It depends on the champ though. You might not wanna trade too many kills with MasterYi if you're say... Pantheon . Because later at 30 mins in, a 10/10 will own you even with even gold. If you're confident you can deal with the fed enemy X later being fed yourself, I think it is reasonable.

MatezoideJun 9, 201522 votes

Pantheon ARE YOU TELLING ME TO NOT DIVE THAT MASTER YI? DO I LOOK LIKE A WOMAN TO YOU!? HE WILL BE PRIVILIGED TO DIE AT MY FEET!!!

ChaosThiefJun 10, 20155 votes

The first rule of mantheon: ALWAYS. GO. FULL. DAMAGE. No wussing out.

Z StatisticJun 10, 20154 votes

Let them come so I may put their head on a pike.

When I am farming, they will lose gold. When I am annoyed, they will slowly bleed to death. When I truly desire to kill them and wrest their life from their shells of bodies, I shall come for them, I shall murderl them, and the only reason they shall know who killed them will be that they don't know what killed them.

Pantheon A warrior charges in headlong into the enemy, finding the strongest foe he can find and bringing him to death's door and if you both reach Elysium together, then your eternal battle in heaven shall be glorious. An Artisan of War waits for the warrior and lives to kill another until all that is left is the enemy commander, who shall fight like a warrior and die like one or run like a coward and be struck down like one.

MatezoideJun 10, 20151 votes

Hell yeah. If you are playing Mantheon, you have to go full man mode.

Pantheon THEY CAN NOT KILL YOU IF THEY ARE DEAD!

godofruin2Jun 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Hell yeah. If you are playing Mantheon, you have to go full man mode.

THEY CAN NOT KILL YOU IF THEY ARE DEAD!

unless he is karthus Karthus

ZioviJun 10, 20151 votes

or sion Sion

ChaosThiefJun 10, 2015

He just kills the sion passive. Sion is pretty manly, but not as much as MANTHEON.

NarasimhaJun 10, 20153 votes

False. Mantheon has to use his spear and shield. Sion comes back from the dead to kill you with his bare hands. Sion wins this manly contest.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

Never say those words again, heretic.

NarasimhaJun 10, 20151 votes

Atleast use the meme if you're going to say it

https://i.warosu.org/data/tg/img/0290/89/1388054950776.jpg

Hitchhiker007Jun 9, 20152 votes

I would tend to agree. In the laning phase, any time that you are not farming, getting an item, or completing an objective is time wasted. One should definitely kill their opponent if they can do it decisively and safely, but being present to clear a minion wave is far more valuable (at least in terms of gold) than participating in a Double KO situation. It's a lost scenario for both sides if you both die.

WickedfatesJun 9, 20152 votes

ya, until we have some stats like wards, and damage shielded ... on the freakin same page as the rest of the "main" stats in the game... i care vry little about "i fed this much gold stats".....

support mains should be insulted if this goes forth

Supp HeroJun 10, 20152 votes

The only thing it couldn't account for (easily) is how much gold the enemy got from CS due to you letting them free farm. The gold fed amount isn't always an indicator that the player cost the game either. The first 1000-2000 gold could get them significantly fed and then the rest of the gold they got was just because they were already fed and easily destroyed the rest of the team/ easily farmed. I've had games where I only had 2 deaths and we already lost the game because the rest of my team fed them 5+ deaths each. I ended the game with 10 deaths because the enemy was just that fed and our team couldn't do anything about it in team fights. It would appear I had the most deaths/ cost the game but it wasn't exactly true.

I would like the feature if it had a time related stat to 'gold fed', example:

5 Minutes : 500 gold fed 10 Minutes :800 gold fed 20 Minutes : 1500 gold fed, etc.

Because overall gold fed is not always an indicator of your mistakes/ but could be due to the enemy getting fed by someone other than yourself.

It Hertz When IPJun 10, 20151 votes

This assumes the enemy free farmed while you were dead. If the matchup was close, the survivor was left at under 20% health, and the jungler unaccounted for, any smart player would not then push the lane, but would back to heal.

Hitchhiker007Jun 9, 20151 votes

When I consider stats at the end of the game, oftentimes I will look at the "Time Spent Dead" stat in order to see how much each player fed. It is actually a fairly accurate assessment.

iamthegoatofwarJun 9, 20152 votes

well yes and no...Sometimes someone who died 3 times will have a longer death timer than one who died 15

WillHealForHonorJun 9, 20152 votes

What if a person died for getting a tower, baron, 5th drake?

ElizasleynJun 9, 20151 votes

This statistic will only encourage unhealthy passive gameplay, and discourage certain situations where the reward outweigh the costs (split pushing where enemy sends 5 people to kill you but your team gets a turret or objective).

Occams RaiserJun 10, 20151 votes

It will enhance game play. You are saying it takes those that "throw caution to the wind" and make them play safer getting some less kills but dying way less and only when unavoidable.... That was the point. Stop feeding for kills. You are making it hard to carry you. Split push: by wards, run when they get close. vs die every time the come for you.

MohawkBirdJun 9, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Occams RaiserJun 10, 20151 votes

That is no fault of information. It is not a special stat It would #1 shut people up. #2 Give you insight to shutdown gold and other bad choices you make. If those choices get you flamed there might be reason. It isn't the stat itself.

aaronconlinJun 10, 20151 votes

Graves - 30/17 Viktor - 9/16 Lee Sin - 13/18 Soraka - 2/14 Vlad (Me) - 3/10

"Vlad was dead weight" Yet when Graves and Viktor had 9 deaths I had 2...

chipndip1Jun 11, 20151 votes

You actually were dead weight unless you assisted for a lot.

aaronconlinJun 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You actually were dead weight unless you assisted for a lot.

Except I wasn't. I kept top lane in check the entire game, and a majority of my deaths happened within the last ten or so minutes. The only reason we even lost is because of the amount of times graves tried to 1v3 or 4, and him and Lee Sin engaging on Baron with the entire enemy team in their jungle.

SnakezzyJun 10, 20151 votes

But how would this work in all cases? In bot spellthiefs is common for AP supports, so would that also take off your gold if say a soraka hit you twice?

Occams RaiserJun 10, 20151 votes

It is death gold

alaskaneagleJun 10, 20151 votes

54367

YES, YES, yes.. yea.... I like this idea.

Plus, I have a strategy I do if I get beat in lane that basically wastes so much of the enemies time chasing me for a kill that gives 25 gold while they lose turrets and the game, BUT I always get harassed for it... No matter how many times I point out that "my death kept the entire enemy team top so you could get drag and two turrets for free, while they got 25 gold in the trade. It was WORTH" They still bi tch about the death,,, Even when I take a turret and inhib in a split push but die to secure the inhib, again giving about 25 gold, I get harassed. I will be 0/12/42 and make sure the enemy is Never around to secure an objective so we get all the drags, barrons, our buffs Their buffs, turrets, inhib, and even O LOOK, they are chasing eagle in our jung and we are taking the nexus..... "You jerk eagle wtf are you doing, you should be grouped with us to take this" ... people are dumb.

BottleCapsterJun 10, 20151 votes

If riot were to implement this kind of stat, then it would have to be localized to the player similar to mastery ratings. Because patterns like this honestly give nothing to the rest of your team then a scapegoat to say "X fed most therefore f*ck X". As a personal stat, it could actually have some interesting potential to give people an idea of how "wurf" their plays are, but at the same time, i feel like if you're already losing, a stat like "Gold Given" would do little to nothing other than discouraging you even further. Overall though, I don't think this is a stat that would do anything majorly positive to the game, and its potential worth is mired in the potential chaos that could ensue.