I like how dmg is so high, I can get destroyed by a player 3 divisions lower than me.

option paralysis·Dec 8, 2018·97 votes·17,291 views

No counterplay, no strategy, it's just "me see enemy, me kill enemy in 0.5 secs". Other than macro, there's literally no difference between a gold and a diamond player. If you don't pick something broken and approved by riot and the gold player does... no mechanics involved, just kill everything in 0.5 secs. Idk why do people like this kind of games, where you just death match until someone has longer death timers than you and wins... but alright. There's very few games where someone doesn't feed and the game actually feels skillful and strategy matters. Maybe like 1/10 games. And now when adcs are complaining about being one shot too, riot's idea isn't to nerf dmg across the board like everyone wanted for the whole season... nahh, they're gonna buff adcs too, so everyone can kill everyone in 0.5 secs. Good idea. Who wants a strategy filled 30-40 mins game, lets just death match each other in 15-20 mins games. Ahhhh...

68 Comments

EschetonDec 8, 201857 votes

15 minute death matches sells more skins.

The entire meta is impulse based. Because instant-reward impulse-gameplay leads to instant-reward impulse-shopping.

I miss season 3-4

DlleshDec 8, 201819 votes

so idk, lets stop buying their shit....

njrk97Dec 8, 20186 votes

The fact your self aware enough to make that conclusion shows your not one of the people they are interested in targeting. As with any large scale games you can try this whole not buying crap all your want, but their is still thousands of other players in too deep or not self aware enough and are already rubbing their wallets waiting to get the new Bloodmoon attrox bundle or some crap. I stepped away from the game a while ago, i doubt it makes any lick of difference but at this point why waste time on a game i dislike, going in a direction i dislike, that clearly is not going to change because its making them cash and viewers.

Granted my argument has been its less impulse based and more a combination of

Making games shorter because longer games mean people are toxic longer since they are 'losing' and its quite hard to make a effective system that fixes that

and

2.Some order from Tencent or someone up top telling the team that viewership is a major priority, as such everything must be flashy and exciting to watch so they can reel in more twitch viewers and so on. You put everything under the lens that these 2 points are the first priority in gameplay and balance decisions and suddenly this entire season,items and champs/reworks all begin to make sense.

PowerSlave993Dec 8, 20182 votes

''Let's stop buying their shit...'' next 3 days ''omg there's a good skin, i must buy it!''

The amount of contradictory people here is such big. People say they won't buy it but they are waiting for the first opportunity for it...

Rock MDDec 8, 201856 votes

Remember boys, if you outplay and beat a Diamond player in normals, it's because you're just that good.

If you're a Diamond and get beat by a Gold player, it's because damage is too high and strategy has gone out the window.

DarkTree1Dec 8, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-08T01:07:01.412+0000)

Remember boys, if you outplay and beat a Diamond player in normals, it's because you're just that good.

If you're a Diamond and get beat by a Gold player, it's because damage is too high and strategy has gone out the window.

i don't know if you're systematically blocking out the "you're just playing leblanc/irelia/akali, this isn't impressive, anyone with a pulse can do this" comments or if you're just chosen by higher powers to not see them but people say that all the time on low elo clips

Rock MDDec 8, 201829 votes

{quoted}

i don't know if you're systematically blocking out the "you're just playing leblanc/irelia/akali, this isn't impressive, anyone with a pulse can do this" comments or if you're just chosen by higher powers to not see them but people say that all the time on low elo clips

Oh I'm just being sarcastic about how quick members of this board will justify their skill by beating high elos in normals

then they'll also upvote a post that says that diamonds should always beat golds.

It's like saying, "look if you're diamond you should always be winning except in metas I don't like because they don't involve strategy. Oh, and I'm an exception. I win against diamonds in normals."

space caoseDec 8, 20185 votes

Its got nothing to do with skill, i am D3 player and yet i find it hard to even win gold game's with a lead. The game now is biased on the champ picked not the skill of player. Played a game where Sion went 4-15 and all he did was push top, didn't matter how many times i killed him, he just got tanker and just destroyed turrets with no skill.

I remember destroying an akali top, to the point she should be useless, cut into 25-30 mins she was out trading me with an item down. Trust me skill doesn't count for crap when you're playing the most op champs in game.

Oh ye just pick karthus with dark harvest and 3/4 hp all the enemy team with one r... skill.

Plus all that free gold for knocking down towers, which makes gaining that lead oh so easy.

IfnethDec 8, 20181 votes

Or... just watch any Unranked to Diamond series from a big-name streamer and see them climb right through Gold.

You’re just mad that you queued up to stomp players who shouldn’t have had a chance against you, got wrecked because you took it easy, and now blame the game.

space caoseDec 9, 20182 votes

I'm mad? I've got 1 account at P1 and another on it way. Gold was only hard because i'm a panth one trick, which makes it harder for me to win game's after a certain point. Also my panth kda at one point was around 13 kills + per game. But doesn't mean shit when other champs are stronger then yours.

Now if i was playing Akali, camille, kha'ziks, Aatrox, urgot and Irelia i would skipped skipped gold on the new account and started of at P5 with 10 wins. Just like my main and second account did at the start of the season.

IfnethDec 9, 20181 votes

Yeah, you sound pretty mad that you couldn’t stomp a bunch of Gold players to get another smurf into Plat.

Also, if old champs are so weak, then why is every one of the #1 champs on op.gg an old champ? Jax, Nidalee, Cassiopeia, Lucian, Leona. Since the champs you mentioned have resetting or near-free dashes, note that Cassiopeia doesn’t even have a dash, Leona’s is gated behind a skillshot, and Jax’s is targeted.

But leave that aside a moment: Pantheon himself is the fifth to third-highest win-rate Top lane champion on the site for five patches running. His unfavorable matchups into the popular Urgot and Aatrox aside, you sure it was him holding you back?

space caoseDec 9, 20181 votes

I never once said i was going to stomp golds, i made a smurf account so i don't destroy my mains mmr in pre season. All the players i vs should also be smurfs, so i'm not even vsing golds so that destroys your theory. My game's in promo's where me facing P5-P1 so i rarely even saw a real gold player.

We are going off op.gg now? I can't even remember the last time i saw cassiopeia in a league game also she's a mid laner and i'm a top main, Nid is a jungler she has to hit her q or trap to get the bonus damage, i don't see her picked over kha'ziks who has op q which you can't miss a free dash a slow and can go invis (A lot easier then relying on skill shot) lee ( Has an excellent engage with either his q or w and high damage if he misses his q and still dash and E's you for the slow with a ult to execute you or knock you back into a Allie champ then disengage either by q or w) Eve (can be preeminently invis after level 6 she has a stun and super high damage near impossible to track her on the map and once she gets going you're not going to live once the charm is hit, lets not mention the movement speed buff and execute R which also gives her an escape)

(Also win rate doesn't mean a champ is broken) Wait so Urgot beats Panth very easy in lane, same with Aatrox, now panth needs to win lane in order be useful and have an impact on the game or else he's useless since his kit is one champ combo.

Now let's move out the laning phase, panth finds it hard to engage since's he doesn't have disengage you either all in get a kill or you die. Now urgot has excellent kit for engages he also has sustain and execute and can rush Black clever gaining hp and damage, Aatrox is the same, has no manna costs and excellent engage kit with little to no risk with an ult that allows to out damage you for the 10 seconds.

All the champs i gave examples off have excellent game play all match long, and don't fall of into the late game.

https://gyazo.com/13fd5423183a1730918c84ae9018a367 Current account win rate on champs. This is with having to deal with a lot people trolling and leaving because they are also on smurf accounts, and pre season bs.

IfnethDec 9, 20181 votes

No golds, you say?

Its got nothing to do with skill, i am D3 player and yet i find it hard to even win gold game's with a lead.

Only plats, you say?

Gold was only hard because i'm a panth one trick, which makes it harder for me to win game's after a certain point.

You said yourself that you were playing against Golds, and even went on to argue that a Gold player on a new champ could beat a Diamond player on an old champ. Now you’re claiming it was all against Plats. Which is it?

op.gg isn’t perfect, but it’s the closest we have to Riot’s numbers. According to it, Pantheon has been doing pretty well despite lacking an escape, with his winrate and pickrate only improving with Preseason. I never said Pantheon was broken—just good enough.

space caoseDec 10, 20181 votes

Yes they are in "gold" but they are smurfs like my self, so i just call them golds. Any one who has 60%+ win rate in gold is smurfing and that's what most of the games consisted off.

Some time's i'd play vs golds because they would be duoing with a higher ranked member who was P2 and cause a mmr problem making the games unbalanced.

Only time i ever vs real golds is in flex.

GilgayuDec 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-12-08T01:34:29.169+0000)

Oh I'm just being sarcastic about how quick members of this board will justify their skill by beating high elos in normals

then they'll also upvote a post that says that diamonds should always beat golds.

It's like saying, "look if you're diamond you should always be winning except in metas I don't like because they don't involve strategy. Oh, and I'm an exception. I win against diamonds in normals."

I remember winning against a diamond zed using anivia back in season 7... Now I think about it, things were easier to balance back then...

EleshakaiDec 8, 20181 votes

Didn't you hear? League Damage being too high is the cause of poverty and world hunger.

BestPudgeNADec 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-08T01:07:01.412+0000)

Remember boys, if you outplay and beat a Diamond player in normals, it's because you're just that good.

If you're a Diamond and get beat by a Gold player, it's because damage is too high and strategy has gone out the window.

I heard that if you're Diamond your game knowledge makes you immune to criticism from gold players

EedatDec 8, 201826 votes

Just because you're diamond doesn't mean you win by default. You dont get bonus stats based on your ELO. The only thing that separates a bronze talon and a challenger talon is how well they play. Maybe next time dont go full glass cannon Udyr while being far behind then complain about being super squishy

option paralysisDec 8, 201825 votes

{quoted}

Just because you're diamond doesn't mean you win by default. You dont get bonus stats based on your ELO. The only thing that separates a bronze talon and a challenger talon is how well they play. Maybe next time dont go full glass cannon Udyr while being far behind then complain about being super squishy

yes. because everything I just said is based on that one udyr game, right ? not the experience from the whole season, huh ?

AirKingNeoDec 8, 20188 votes

considering you said, "I can get destroyed by a player 3 divisions lower than me." that does mean 1 game.

Dasdi96Dec 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Just because you're diamond doesn't mean you win by default. You dont get bonus stats based on your ELO. The only thing that separates a bronze talon and a challenger talon is how well they play. Maybe next time dont go full glass cannon Udyr while being far behind then complain about being super squishy

Sometimes it actually feels like a high elo player does more damage than a low elo player.

Rock MDDec 8, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Klepto annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-12-08T05:38:35.319+0000)

Sometimes it actually feels like a high elo player does more damage than a low elo player.

There are a number of reasons for that.

1 Auto trades. High elos will get in more auto trades against you which do significant damage over time.
Auto woven trades. While on that topic, high elos are also generally better at weaving and cancelling auto animations to get maximum dps from their trades.
Higher income. If you cs better you get more gold -> more damage
just tell people that being Diamond gives you a 5% damage increase xd

AetherKingdomDec 8, 20189 votes

maybe u died cuz ur macro sucks?XD

DNFVixenDec 8, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=option paralysis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-08T00:19:05.950+0000)

No counterplay, no strategy, it's just "me see enemy, me kill enemy in 0.5 secs". Other than macro, there's literally no difference between a gold and a diamond player. If you don't pick something broken and approved by riot and the gold player does... no mechanics involved, just kill everything in 0.5 secs. Idk why do people like this kind of games, where you just death match until someone has longer death timers than you and wins... but alright. There's very few games where someone doesn't feed and the game actually feels skillful and strategy matters. Maybe like 1/10 games. And now when adcs are complaining about being one shot too, riot's idea isn't to nerf dmg across the board like everyone wanted for the whole season... nahh, they're gonna buff adcs too, so everyone can kill everyone in 0.5 secs. Good idea. Who wants a strategy filled 30-40 mins game, lets just death match each other in 15-20 mins games. Ahhhh...

Strat went out the window when riot stopped caring if players are having fun.

BlåbæretDec 8, 20187 votes

Just played against Yi as Illaoi. Couldn't even finish R animation before I was dead. He Q'd me and I died. This was with thornmail.

Moody PDec 8, 20184 votes

Yi is kind of a counter to Illaoi. Don't know what you thought would happen

PepijndMDec 8, 20182 votes

Non-Yi player here, shouldn't the bruiser Illaoi beat the figher/assassin Yi? I thought that (theoretically) Yi should be better for picks and flanks, while Illaoi should be better at splitpush and frontline teamfighting.

Moody PDec 8, 20184 votes

No. Yi attacks so fast that even if Illaoi land's E she can't get bonus damage on him. Add to that Q lets him dodge R and he can completely shut down her attempt at counter attack.

Tr4shB4NSYST3MDec 8, 20181 votes

This: Illaoi has no CC to stop Yi's dps, and as long as yi uses Q to dodge ult he basically will always win that matchup (on close to even gold).

BlåbæretDec 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-12-08T14:09:29.056+0000)

Yi is kind of a counter to Illaoi. Don't know what you thought would happen

Not die in half a second? But hey, I guess you're one of those who's fine with the damage creep in this game.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

LùmenDec 8, 20187 votes

3 divisons aren't a lot.. do you mean tiers as in you're diamond and he's 3 tiers beneath you as in, silver?

iDarkWindDec 8, 20187 votes

Being Diamond doesn't mean you autowin vs people on low elo, and the worst part is that your stupid excuse is because of this "meta" - wich has been like this the whole season. Your excuse makes no sense, your point makes no sense. You got Diamond "on this meta" and the other guy got Gold or whatever "on this meta". Perhaps my english isn't the best to try to explain my point, but I think you can get the idea.

Midg3tDec 8, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Being Diamond doesn't mean you autowin vs people on low elo, and the worst part is that your stupid excuse is because of this "meta" - wich has been like this the whole season. Your excuse makes no sense, your point makes no sense. You got Diamond "on this meta" and the other guy got Gold or whatever "on this meta". Perhaps my english isn't the best to try to explain my point, but I think you can get the idea.

I think he mean that in this meta his gameplay knowledge is irrelevant because games are, like he said 'deathmatches', and it got to the point where a lower elo player can stomp high elo just by brute forcing his way through the lane/the match, not by being better/having a better game knowledge.

Wood Tier IVDec 8, 20184 votes

I made the sad mistake of playing Volibear. On 4/5 of my deaths, I died with less than 1 second of my passive ticking, based on the replays. I was basically as tank as any other squishy champion because I had no tankiness outside of items and aftershock. Truly a sad state for tanks/voli.

MLDzXnRRRDec 8, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wood Tier IV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5L3j97GI,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-12-08T03:22:12.988+0000)

I made the sad mistake of playing Volibear. On 4/5 of my deaths, I died with less than 1 second of my passive ticking, based on the replays. I was basically as tank as any other squishy champion because I had no tankiness outside of items and aftershock. Truly a sad state for tanks/voli.

I see tanks melted in 1-2 seconds, there is no point in playing them unless you somehow snowball and finish the game, being almost unkillable before enemy team manages to buy damage.

LarrietDec 8, 20183 votes

Other than macro, there's literally no difference between a gold and a diamond player.

Is this a bad thing? Not saying damage should be as high, which is the point you're actually making, but literally just getting mechanics down (being able to get a kill) is the learning of a beginner; "big picture" planning is something for more veteran players to master in any strategy game.

Wukong AirlinesDec 8, 20183 votes

You mean 3 Tiers*.

sphinxthelion7Dec 8, 20182 votes

Case and point Brand. Why can support Brand with no farm kill me in one combo at level 4? His damage is insane! He is the poster child of the damage being too high!

Pika FoxDec 8, 20184 votes

Because you stood there doing nothing and let him full combo you? Most tank supports are pretty hard counters to brand, such as alistar, thresh or leona.

MLDzXnRRRDec 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Case and point Brand. Why can support Brand with no farm kill me in one combo at level 4? His damage is insane! He is the poster child of the damage being too high!

Brand is so bad midlane, so the community made him a support that can carry. The champion has no good waveclear and is unreliable + no mobility. The only reason anyone would pick him is to bully botlane, because of high base damage and no need to buy many items (% hp dmg). Velkoz is in similar spot (being able to win botlane by himself), but he is better midlaner.

meowwow7Dec 8, 20182 votes

no armor against a lethality stacking pantheon, and you wonder why it only took a few attacks to kill you?

Owl PuffDec 8, 20182 votes

The only time I've been killed in 0.5 seconds is if the enemy is fed/I'm behind or if its a Zoe. If my team and the enemy team are relatively equal then I don't really pop as an adc or squishy champion. Granted I do play like a pussy so that might be the reason.

Mokuto BunshiDec 8, 20182 votes

"pick something broken and approved by riot"

I'm using that from now on.

SociaI JusticeDec 8, 20182 votes

Other than macro, there's literally no difference between a gold and a diamond player.

omegafuckinglul

Fnatic ComeShotDec 8, 20182 votes

Quite this game already. It wont get any better. They have enough time and feedbacks and yet they ignore us.

shot040Dec 8, 20181 votes

Isn’t the strategy to avoid the champs that burst u and let tanks handle them? I think the point of burst is so fights don’t drag out, with the winner being the one who’s teammate shows up first.

Mael broDec 8, 20181 votes

I used to stomp filthy Azir pickers with Yi mid back in S5, so your argument doesn't hold much here.

JashindoDec 9, 20181 votes

As low Silver Player (or at least last time I did ranked at all) I'd agree that I shouldn't be able to just mong a better player because my damage is so high. Burst is currently so great that not only are Champion Identities washing away, but it means there is zero time for my opponent's skill to kick in and my stupidity to come about!

I'd rather be thrashed by another Player because they are better than me rather than I beat them because big thick mongo stick is more braindead than theirs!