How do you all feel about AP itemisation?

Lady Hammerlock··6 votes·1,070 views

So apart from just screaming 'AD itemisation is better than AP itemisation' how does everyone feel about AP right now? If I had to give my opinion on every item excluding Banshee's or Abyssal(on PBE) because I won't know how those will turn out.

  1. item 3165 As an item is far to general, and is only really bought because it carries basically everything a mage wants(whether artillery or burst), one of the highest amounts of AP on an item(not counting deathcap), 20% CDR, Mana, the ability to restore mana in extended fights assuming you get kill/assist, and previous wounds;albeit with limitations to it. It has effectively become a crutch to some mages, with exceptions to Karthus Anivia Azir AurelionSol who may never build it at all.

2.item 3030 Is actually pretty fine, I got nothing to say about it, I normally purchase it on a ROA champion if I fall behind and feel that ROA would take far to long to stack. 3.item 3152 No longer does absurd damage, but let's be honest, a 300 range dash on an active makes for some 'unhealthy' tendencies, it's also far to niche to be that popular.

4.item 3285 Is an item that works for both artillery and burst mages because it basically serves a dual purpose. Now if we ignore it's passive and it's roughly somewhere in between 80-90% gold efficiency, it could probably use gold slashing by 50-100 gold. Problem is, it's like death cap, it isn't that efficient on paper until you actually buy more items(now we're counting the passive) because it scales with AP, it's value goes up with more items. 5.item 3100 falls into a similar situation, without the passive it is about 82% inefficient but unlike Luden's it has multiple stats while paying 3% ms and 20 AP for 10% CDR and 250 mana. We're not even counting the fact that Lich bane's passive scales much much better compared to Luden's in damage;albeit it's usability is locked by auto attacks, semi limiting it's fullest potential to a couple few.

item 3116 On to the first subject of 'AP reduction' now mind you, the Rylai's nerf was very much deserved because like Morello, it became far to general of an item(where it's intended use was for AP bruisers/AP dot mages) was used on artillery mages and burst mages as well. Although on the other hand it got HP and had it's price slashed massively for it's lost AP, and some lost utility(not a lot of HP though).

item 3027 It's to gated by that fact that it takes time to stack, now this isn't a bad thing at all but it's a problem when you fall behind and fail to catch up quickly. It's previous balance changes also make you question, what you'd rather have, 20+ AP, some more mana and HP in trade for a slightly higher price(which mind you still needs to scale, this is all at 10 ROA stacks) or 20 less AP, less mana and HP for less money.

item 3174 Haha, yeah, how about let's not go into this

item 3135 It's still pretty good, I mean, it didn't really change all that much. item 3089 For the AP IE, it sure doesn't feel like the 'powerspike' in the mid game and is on the norms, bought as a later item rather than early to mid item(with the obvious exception of being ridiculously fed and playing Veigar ). Now I get that this item is ludicrously strong, but it's passive effectively locks it into a later buy because you need AP to make it worthwhile(and I suppose that is the point), this is one end where AP was increased. It's passive had it's effect increased by 5%(which isn't large until you realise how much AP you get in a game).

item 3001 item 3157 Two items that had it's AP reduced, abyssal had it reduced by 20(if I'm not mistaken) and Zhonya's AP was reduced by a WHOPPING 50 AP! -As for abyssal, It's still kinda ok, but going into abyssal is pointless, considering the PBE changes coming soon -item 3157 It's really hard to decide, whether I'd have more AP and armour and remove the god forbidden randomly attached CDR that nobody asked for, or keep the CDR for an item with decent stats. As a person I Like me so CDR, but it creates a situation where we have an in excess of CDR and a little less AP than wanted, and for the record, it's active is not useless, you can dodge ultimates, synergise with abilities(i.e Fiddlesticks Morgana) or wait off cooldowns.

item 3003 Takes time to stack, overall terrible value before it's stacked but for this item specifically it is meant to to scale over time, and also gains value assuming you purchase mana items. Gives massive AP given the correct items.

item 3151 It's actually pretty decent.... considering the items around it as well at least.... you can only make full use of the passive if you have CC or better yet Rylai's. It has magic pen, health and 80 AP, overall no big problems.

item 3115 Doesn't fit all champions, only certain few can actually use it effectively. Otherwise 20% CDR, 80 AP, 50% AS, make for great stats.

Not including gun blade or rage blade because it's far to niche(even more so than Protobelt.

18 Comments

ForgiveColour4 votes

There is literally nothing wrong with ap items. Like fucking lost chapter for 900 gold removes the weakness of all mages already what more does mage players want? Gives me cancer to see mage mains still complain about new banshee not being good enough

Gunblade is also cancerous af

Stevev453 votes

item 3030 The active is so bad it makes the whole item useless except for like 3 champions. the cast time slows you about as much as the people you hit.

Jbels2 votes

It almost feels like their are just too many items compared to other classes, and not all of them are attractive. Remember when you could double down on MR if you were losing badly by going Athenes and Abyssal? You'd still have damage, CDR, and mana sustain to do what mages do, you would just be sacrificing the damage the winning mage will purchase.

Who remembers Will of the Ancients? I understand it fell into the same problem as Runic Bulwark (AURAS MOTHERF**KER, DO YOU GOT THEM?), but couldn't we have reworked it instead of adding new items? The only thing adding new items to the mage shelf does is confuse people on what they should buy.

I don't know any champions beside Swain and the occasional Aurelion Sol that even buy Hextech GLP, and I only ever see Protobelt built on Kennen or Vladimir. Also, why the hell was GLP given such a confusing name? Players new to the game are going to be like, what does the GLP stand for? What does this item even do? You look at all of the other names and it's like "Scepter? Magic. Scepter? Magic. Nomicon? DARK magic. Deathcap? Fucking Harry Potter up in this bitch"

All in all, I feel like mage itemization has been handled extremely poorly, both design-wise and aesthetically (for the newer items)

GrandpaTheGreat2 votes

We could REALLY use some more items for AP Bruisers like Singed Mordekaiser and Galio, or even something that could bring back tanks using Ap Fighter like builds such as when Maokai regularly built Rod of Ages.

Also, it would be pretty nice if AD was given less inherent advantages over AP (A comp being full AD doesn't even mean much anymore)

Ralanr2 votes

New Abyssal is probably the answer.

GrandpaTheGreat1 votes

New abyssal could use some Ap, having just the aura with no base ap is a wee bit weird

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Pretty much felt gutted since the mage 'update'; lowered ability power on about every item, removed mana regeneration, removed will of the ancients, gave ADs more anti-mage items, and now buffing magic resist. Though they added a couple items, they're too situational on most.

SwiftKitten882 votes

i feel like item 3100 is plenty strong and item 3003 is good, but i would change the build path a bit so u don't have to spend over 1k at a time TWICE item 3285 is "ok" but what sucks is that the jungle AP item item 1410 SHARES the unique passive

meaning that is another 100 AP item u CAN'T get in a jungler

and becuase of this the ap onitem 1410 really needs to be 80

item 3116 needs more HP and AP OR we need another item that gives flat 100+AP and and 400+ HP that doesn't scale and isn't gated by a passive or active that champs only work on certain champs with more AP. even an item with 100 AP 400 hp 200 mana and 20 CDR would be amazing we can call it "Zhonya's Battle Armor" but what i would do is give ap a 100 ap.. 60 armor 20 CDR item maybe building from item 3191 item 1031 item 3108 .. something likeitem 3157 but WITHOUT gold gated by an active is it can have stronger flat stats.

item 3001 IS FINE DON'T TOUCH IT we dont need to give EVERY CHAMPION a spellshield + damage item.. AP dont need it.. AD CERTAINLY didn't need it in item 3814

enough with the spellshields, item 3102 is FINE as a TANK item

DemoGuide2 votes

I feel it more like Support items. item 3165 = item 2049 Mandatory buy because it outshines all the other AP items. item 3135 = item 3190 or item 3107 Mandatory because of how good it is, and if you don't you are not going to deal damage to anyone with a single MR item. Then you have one item of variety. Not that big of variety though. It's either item 3001 or item 3157 depending on the matchup.

90% of the time game is already decided/finished when you bought these items + boots. But anyway, half of the time your last 2 items will be: item 3116 + item 3001 or item 3157 because teams tend to have mixed damage output with rare exceptions of being full AD (full AP are much easier to counter). It's too late to buy item 3003 or item 3027 beceause they require 10 minute stacking. And they don't really grant you enough utility compared to previous choices. item 3285 feels cost-inefficient , and item 3089 costs much and don't really feel needed because you still deal meaningful damage to squishies and would rather have slow and additional defences.

Votable Jester2 votes

What I want from mage itemization is some more damage focused buys rather than CDR infused utility items. I'm fine with unique passives and actives, but the mage ones always seem to be at the cost of a ton of damage. I'd like to see a sort of mage version of the Zeal items. Several items that hold similar stats with different unique effects for different situations.

They could make them like a few different versions of item 3165 or item 3151 that could be centered around item 3802/item 3108 and item 3136 respectively.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=56ymWEfE,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-04-12T20:09:25.514+0000) I'd like to see a sort of mage version of the Zeal items. Several items that hold similar stats with different unique effects for different situations.

We got those. they are called the Hextech items item 3146 item 3152 item 3030

Votable Jester1 votes

Except they have very different stats and are almost entire restricted to short/mid range.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=56ymWEfE,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-04-16T06:22:40.074+0000)

Except they have very different stats

Yes, items intended for magic damage dealers have different stats than ite,ms intended for Marsksman and AD Crit DPS damage dealers.... Thats kinda the entire fkin point.

and are almost entire restricted to short/mid range.

I don't see your point.

Ralanr1 votes

I feel AP itemization often lacks diversity amongst the different kinds of AP users (AP bruisers, AP assassins, mages) which often leads to one item being too core on everyone (old Rylai's) and having problems in getting defined builds. AP bruisers imo have the worst itemization in the game as they for some reason can't function without an AP item or damage item (I haven't seen AP bruisers build many straight defensive items like regular bruisers).

Then you have AP assassins who are much more at the mercy of mage itemization since both mages and assassins can function around burst damage (and more AP equals more burst).

Say what you want about AD itemization, at least crit helps diversify builds into classes since you rarely see it outside of marksmen.

DragonShea1 votes

Needs mo flavor. I wouldn't mind seeing more AP bruiser Items.

WalkingInACircle1 votes

Gimmicky. Most of them seem to try to fill some niche that might fit one champion? A lot of frustration when compared to the wealth of options ad have, and their abilities tend to be solid and not cost much of the stat power of their items.

Big Lincoln1 votes

imo needs alternative rush/mana items to Morello and a GW item shouldn't be core. something to replace Athenes

Tear should stack faster for landing spells to speed it up if you can land them, atm the power spike is too delayed but I could be wrong here.

Buff Luden's, it's bad and needs just straight better numbers. Preferably the ratio

Would like to see more high AP items but separated from CDR so that decisions and trade offs have to be made on whether you want to be more rounded out or if you just want to hit someone as hard as possible.

I didn't like the MYMU item changes overall, more items for AP bruisers was nice but now traditional mages have been completely overtaken by utility ones like Orianna

Karfuss1 votes

I'm a simple man.

I want an armour AP starter item to deal with these pesky AD mid laners.

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