If you're nerfing Karma Janna Lulu, nerf Morgana as well
if you're reducing shield duration YOU HAVE to do it for that 5 seconds black shield
i don't care about the others, Morgana has been pick/ban for nearly two months now
84 Comments
Khristophoros13 votesBlack Shield doesn't deserve a nerf. Morgana is always going to be a strong pick either way because of her offensive utility.
I can't remember a time when Morgana honestly wasn't a strong pick (there were times when people didn't THINK she was but they were wrong)
It's just pointless to nerf her unless the intent is to actually gut her completely out of being played.
ModKnightsKemplar6 votes^^^^ So much this.
I hadn't realized how broken she was until I had to play against a competent one yesterday. Morg is incredibly frustrating right now.
Azadethe10 votesShe's not frustrating because of her shield. It's her 3 Second Root. I normally play her, but today I had an obnoxious game as 
mid vs a Xerath. Morg and Xerath literally 5 second cc'd me. Xerath would stun me, and then Morg would Q I had like 157 Mag resist..... and couldn't get out of a cc before they were done killing me.
The problem with Morg is that she more or less mandatories you have 
at least.
I won that game and destroyed Morg. But when they tag teamed that cc..... it was annoying.
I'm not defending a nerf though. They destroyed her sustain, and Q moves slow enough that it's normally dodgeable.... unless there's a team synergy. In which case..... it's a team synergy..... and there's no foul there.
Snowman Arc2 votesIt follows the Zoe problem though. You can dodge all her Qs because it's quite easy, but you can't be like 100% there all the time to dodge that. In case you fuck one up, you're dead.
Azadethe4 votesWhich..... is still a hell of a lot less reliable than .... oh ..... say ....
.....
Who all have super reliable kits for killing which don't move slow.... have large hitboxes, are on target clicking, large aoes which devoid strategy, Auto attack reset kits which defy competitively skilling, skill reset cooldowns on some of their most powerful skills, etc.
There's a reason Morgana rarely gets 20 kill games in this Season and looks much more like a support than a mage.
I used to be able to 20/4/16 her vs a smurfing Draven. Now I'm lucky to get 8/4/24 in the same game.
ZephyrDrake5 votes^^^^ So much this.
I hadn't realized how broken she was until I had to play against a competent one yesterday. Morg is incredibly frustrating right now.
I mean I can say that about any champion that is played in a competent matter
BLIGHTBRINGER3 votesHit by her Q, it's over you're dead just like that because you will be standing in that place for 3 SECONDS.
D357R0Y3R2 votes
saltran1 votesWhat's the problem there?
Honestly, a filthy Cait main.
D357R0Y3R2 votesI don't have any problems with cait
I permaban her when I plan to play Lucian because it's 100% lost if you play Lucian into Cait, if they fp cait i pick ashe and get an easy game
But morg+cait is beyond retarded, and it's worse in solo queue because you're not coordinated with your support It's not cait's fault, it's Morgana that is stupid right now and is 100% pick/banned in pro and high elo
Provengreil1 votesit actually kinda IS cait instead of morgana though. The traps can be placed under most CCs to the same effect.
Daddy Ants1 votesit actually kinda IS cait instead of morgana though. The traps can be placed under most CCs to the same effect.
Caitlyn also needs to not be able to wall you under your own turret with her bs traps.
If they nerf Karma again I laugh.
Support shielding needs nerfs.
Doesn't matter if that's Janna, Lulu or Karma.
Support shielding as a whole needs to be hit.
RookPusher1 votes^^^^ So much this.
I hadn't realized how broken she was until I had to play against a competent one yesterday. Morg is incredibly frustrating right now.
right now?
Azadethe5 votesErm.... I don't even level E until last on Morg. Q is far more valuable to level, and W is needed to compensate really crappy laners and clear lanes when they yolo/chase every bait and you need to protect a lane. Shield scales fine, but one point is enough to negate incoming CC until late game...
P.S. where do you get info they are nerfing shields?
D357R0Y3R4 votesmeddler gameplay posts he said they're nerfing shield duration on enchanters to increase their skillcap
Azadethe5 votesBut... he didn't specify Janna/Karma/Lulu...
And if he touches their shields... I fully expect compensation in either base AD/Resist, or damage, or a mixture of both. Karma can't really exist in current Rift without her shield. She can't lock out kills, or survive champs she counters without it.
P.S. The worst shield abuse in the game is not Enchanters.
D357R0Y3R5 votesBut... he didn't specify Janna/Karma/Lulu...
those champions have the highest shield duration in the game in case you didn't know
And if he touches their shields... I fully expect compensation
maybe
P.S. The worst shield abuse in the game is
his shield duration is 1 second, it's just here to help him to avoid damage because he's melee he isn't ranged like marksmen
Azadethe6 votes- Karma lasts 4 seconds. Janna 5, Lulu 4,
Orianna is also 4 seconds. Rakan can shield for up to 6 Seconds. Morgana is 5 seconds. Thresh is 4 seconds. Blitz is 10 seconds (Self) Diana has a spammable 5 second (Self) Jarvan 5 seconds. Nautilus is 10 seconds. Sion 6 Seconds. Skarner 6 Seconds. Udyr 5 Seconds.
Enchanters are hardly the longest.
- You really don't get Yasuo or how he works, do you?
He has 3-4 shields, not one.
is his third item, and why Yasuos who have horrible games make it up late game. Once he has it, While Yasuo's own shield is charging on Flow, BT charges its shield. While BT shield is up, Yasuo can charge his flow shield.
Yasuo also builds 
for another shield, life steal, spell vamp. If he has both BT/Maw, this is what enables 1v5's.
I've seen a 
on Yasuo too.... that Yasuo went 22/1/17.
The only other champ(s) who I've seen duplicate this kind of shield play is and rarely , because they can both abuse BT's shield + Fleet footwork. This is why Excited Jinxes Pentakill.
Except on Yasuo..... he gets to attack 5 times a second, 100% crit in 2 items, and his shields have no cooldowns.
Yasuo's shields are so powerful, he can literally just Q a Baron to death without ever even penetrating his shields or casting a windwall. That's how fast it generates.
I have literally 1v1'd a while standing in her ult without Wind Wall.... because I generated so much shield attacking her during her ult that her Ult did no damage.
And.... EVERYTHING charges Yasuo's shield..... Damage he takes. Damage he inflicts. Distance he travels.
And most importantly..... Flow shield does not activate until Yasuo actually takes damage. In other words, if BT shield is active, Flow Shield won't activate, but will be charged. So his shields are ALWAYS useful. So...... when Yasuo takes that ~ 700 damage hit that goes through BT, his up to 510 passive shield will absorb every bit of damage that's left over.
D357R0Y3R4 votesAlright let's clear something up, they want to address SHIELDING ON ALLY, not self shielding
Thresh is 4 seconds.
thresh shield has 22 sec cd
Rakan can shield for up to 6 Seconds.
Good Fuck rakan, and nerf him too with them
Yasuo's shields are so powerful, he can literally just Q a Baron to death without ever even penetrating his shields or casting a windwall. That's how fast it generates.
Yasuo shield has 30/24/18 sec cd depending on lvls because the amount of flow it requieres decreases
And no, he can't do what you said
Azadethe2 votes- Your 100% wrong. There is no cooldown on Resolve at all
RESOLVE: Yasuo generates a Flow stack for every 59 / 52 / 46 units he travels by any means. At 「 100 stacks 」 and upon taking champion or monster damage, Yasuo consumes all Flow to shield himself for 100 - 510 (based on level) for up to 1 second.
And yeah. he can. I've repeatedly tested it. I can even do it without Fleet Footwork/Overheal. All I need is Legend: Tenacity, and 
Any 5th item is just cream on top, and soon we'll have more options there too. I find that all of the following take no damage as 5th items:
or 
do take some damage, because the penetration doesn't increase damage to Baron, has no sustain, but IS generally a picked item.
And that's just on Legend: Bloodlines.
On Fleet Footwork or Overheal, I can sustain on all items.
P.S. I 2 Shot all camps in 1 second by 4 items, so it's not like Yasuo has hard farm I can solo kill Elder Drake in 8 seconds with him..... because Q is an auto attack reset. You can pull off 3-4 attacks per second without even capping out attack speed.... which is something even an adc cannot do.
D357R0Y3R5 votesFirst of all, the cooldown is the flow system it self
second of all, This build is shit
Third of all, Yasuo takes conqueror
and if a support main like you think yasuo can solo baron without losing hp, you might teach pro players to do it can't wait for that
Azadethe1 votesI am not a support main. I am a "Fill" main. I don't choose a role.
And how can the flow system itself be a cooldown when it charges whenever he moves or recieves damage from Champs/Epic monsters? E counts as a move...... Damage is continuous..... Nothing on Yasuo's kit has relevant cooldown beyond wind wall.
And trash builds? I suggest you look up what Yasuo actually builds:
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yasuo/
Almost every single build has .
You didn't even read what I posted:
I can even do it without Fleet Footwork/Overheal.
Aka.... Conquerer.
I actually have videos of it btw. Even the builds that don't stay in perma shield rarely go below 70% Hp.
D357R0Y3R2 votesI am not a support main.
I don't really care about what do you main, but you definitly did not understand Yasuo, since you don't even know the shield cd
And nobody builds BT, this shit is GARBAGE BEYOND ANY LVL 3700 gold for that? sure If you want to know how someone builds Yasuo watch MSI
I can even do it without Fleet Footwork/Overheal.
you're just making everything worse
Azadethe1 votesExcept.... I do own and play Yasuo.
And according to stats..... 18.19% of players pick The reason this isn't higher is because people choose between .
That doesn't change the fact BT holds the most win rate build sets. (technically has a couple builds that have higher win rates, but the other two sustain items literally are the ones pulling Yasuo's win rate down) Overall though, BT is the only raw item in stats that has a 64% win rate. Even though has a couple builds, it's only pulling a 58%.
And..... beyond , literally no item has a higher pick rate than
You really need to do your research before arguing.
P.S. Yasuo was only played in 7 games in MSI, and was a 28.9% Win rate. Even then, the winners went or +
(creating the same shield result)
TheMinionLeader1 votesDo you even play this game?
Azadethe1 votesI'm Diamond II, played 4 games today. Atm playing Path of Exile.
TheRossJanitor1 votes
- Karma lasts 4 seconds. Janna 5, Lulu 4,
Orianna is also 4 seconds. Rakan can shield for up to 6 Seconds. Morgana is 5 seconds. Thresh is 4 seconds. Blitz is 10 seconds (Self) Diana has a spammable 5 second (Self) Jarvan 5 seconds. Nautilus is 10 seconds. Sion 6 Seconds. Skarner 6 Seconds. Udyr 5 Seconds.
Enchanters are hardly the longest.
- You really don't get Yasuo or how he works, do you?
He has 3-4 shields, not one.
Yasuo also builds
I've seen a
The only other champ(s) who I've seen duplicate this kind of shield play is
Except on Yasuo..... he gets to attack 5 times a second, 100% crit in 2 items, and his shields have no cooldowns.
Yasuo's shields are so powerful, he can literally just Q a Baron to death without ever even penetrating his shields or casting a windwall. That's how fast it generates.
I have literally 1v1'd a
And.... EVERYTHING charges Yasuo's shield..... Damage he takes. Damage he inflicts. Distance he travels.
And most importantly..... Flow shield does not activate until Yasuo actually takes damage. In other words, if BT shield is active, Flow Shield won't activate, but will be charged. So his shields are ALWAYS useful. So...... when Yasuo takes that ~ 700 damage hit that goes through BT, his up to 510 passive shield will absorb every bit of damage that's left over.
Of course you 1v1ed an MF with Bloodthirster shield and lifesteal with a champion that can 4-shot adcs lategame. MF ult does damage in waves, so lifestealing between it is a viable option. I've seen Master Yi with BotRK and no shield items solo Baron with just autoattacks. The shield isn't the problem. Yasuo's flow shield is one of the most useless ones in the game early and midgame. Just autoattack it and its gone. The only thing it is useful for is narrowly avoiding dying to turret, which Pantheon can do better. Your other points are correct though, BT and Maw shields are pretty cancerous if played right.
Azadethe1 votesThe key to mentioning Face tanking mf in her ult is that She didn't even bypass the shield. Ofc I can kill her on a champ that can auto 3-4 times per second (something no other champ can do).
Also, the SAME POINT was being lllustrated by the Baron example. If you have the right items, Baron can't even penetrate the SHIELD. I'm not debating life leech and soloing an objective.
you don't know how Yasuo's shield operates in the way you described it in you're reply. Auto attacking Yasuo CHARGES it. If he's at 100% HP, and takes damage, it activates the charged one, but surplus damage charges the NEXT one. Meanwhile, Yasuo is E-ing Around or Qing you 3-4 times. if he is Eing, that's also charging another slow. The only reason more people don't talk about this is because in the flow of combat..... people don't ever see the full shield. They try to burst into Yasuo, and the result is he either only has a sliver of the shield left, or has slightly dipped into his AP. This is why Yasuo can often 1v3 or 1v4...... because his shield procs 2-3 times in one fight, in addition to BT shields.
BT + Passive = over 800 in shields. I'm saying together they create a matrix of shields which prevent people from actually getting to his HP, unless they have a team.
ZephyrDrake1 votesmeddler gameplay posts he said they're nerfing shield duration on enchanters to increase their skillcap
he said he will be doing that on some of them. Nerfing the duration on a skill that is barely, if ever, maxed first is counter productive and will more than likely just result in her getting buffed elsewhere
D357R0Y3R2 votesyea, it's not like it gives 5 seconds of cc immunity or anything
it's not maxed, therefore isn't a problem
Azadethe2 votesYou do realize that Morgana has no actual innate damage in the current rune mechanism except attempting Q/R's? W actually heals many opponents, and the damage base is too low to actually be serviceable.
Also, it's not 5 seconds of cc immunity if she or her target is burst with magic damage..... When her shield is up is actually the time to attack, because you know she can't shield someone else. If she shielded the adc, you assassinate her. If she shielded herself, you kill the adc. She's really not that strong unless you run right into Qs. At which point..... it's her team that kills people, not her, unless she also gets the opportunity to ult.... which probably means her opposing team was playing wrong.
LuxannaVeritas1 votesYou do realize that Morgana has no actual innate damage in the current rune mechanism except attempting Q/R's? W actually heals many opponents, and the damage base is too low to actually be serviceable.
Also, it's not 5 seconds of cc immunity if she or her target is burst with magic damage..... When her shield is up is actually the time to attack, because you know she can't shield someone else. If she shielded the adc, you assassinate her. If she shielded herself, you kill the adc. She's really not that strong unless you run right into Qs. At which point..... it's her team that kills people, not her, unless she also gets the opportunity to ult.... which probably means her opposing team was playing wrong.
Actually, I disagree with your first statement, although I do see your point.
In about 90 percent of my Morgana games, I max W first. That way, when my enemy does get hit with a binding, I can follow up with some damage that usually exceeds the binding damage. While it can be tricky to land these bindings, the enemy can't dodge them forever, and as long as I don't waste my mana by using W on a moving target or by using too many Q's, I should be able to constantly pressure the opponent with the threat of more damage if they get hit once. It's kind of like how I max Lux's E instead of her Q.
By maxing W first, it does a LOT of damage in the early game. While it does fall off in the late game, I believe that you can still be a threat if you get enough pressure early to help you and your ADC get ahead. So in short, W is powerful during the early game if you max it, which is the time of the game where you should have the most impact.
Your second point is spot on, though. Morgana black shield can't help you too much from a late game Ryze unloading his combo on you or your teammate.
Azadethe2 votesI max it too. Well.... sometimes I one point Q and one point W etc. But.... the W doesn't win any fights except those with a snared adc, or really early game mage.
Any champ/fighter who has Second wind usually heals more than W does, and W usually doesn't get more than 2-3 ticks off on a champion. It's more or less wave clear.
It's especially useless vs champs good at keeping their HP's high.... because of its scaling to missing HP.
All actually heal when Morgana W's them if they have Second Wind.
And most champs who don't have second wind, don't stay in it long enough for substantial effect.
And when you DO land Q, your Q and R do about 80% of the actual damage. W is just supplementary. For me..... it's even more, because I use Electrocute on Morg (much more effective than Comet or Aery)
Daddy Ants2 votesSide by Side comparison of Enchanter Shields:
These numbers do NOT account for Heal and Shield Power or Revitalize
-
SHIELD STRENGTH: 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 70% AP)
ADDITIONAL EFFECTS: 10 / 17.5 / 25 / 32.5 / 40 (+ 10% AP) BONUS AD to recipient
COOLDOWN: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 (6 second CD at max CDR)
SHIELD DURATION: 5 Seconds
:
SHIELD STRENGTH: 70 / 95 / 120 / 145 / 170 (+ 50% AP)
ADDITIONAL EFFECTS: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% Movement Speed for 1.5 seconds to recipient(s)
MANTRA SHIELD: 30 / 90 / 150 / 210 (+ 60% AP) to main recipient and 9 / 27 / 45 / 63 (+ 18% AP) to allies near the main recipient
COOLDOWN: 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 (5.2 seconds at max CDR)
SHIELD DURATION: 4 Seconds
:
SHIELD STRENGTH: 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 60% AP)
ADDITIONAL EFFECTS: 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 40% AP) on hit magic damage given to shield recipient
COOLDOWN: 10 seconds all ranks (6 seconds with Max CDR)
SHIELD DURATION: 6 Seconds
:
SHIELD STRENGTH: 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 80% AP)
ADDITIONAL EFFECTS: Can be cast Twice before going on cooldown.
COOLDOWN: 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 (7.2 seconds with Max CDR)
SHIELD DURATION: 3 seconds per cast, so effectively 6 second duration if both casts used.
:
SHIELD STRENGTH: 25 / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 (+ 30% AP)
ADDITIONAL EFFECTS: Applies to all allies tagged by the Aura.
COOLDOWN: 10 / 9 / 7.5 / 6 (R rank reduces cooldown)
SHIELD DURATION: 1.5 seconds
Just seems to me that Janna, Lulu, Karma and Rakan especially have way too high uptime on their shields considering their insane base and ratios.
meddler gameplay posts he said they're nerfing shield duration on enchanters to increase their skillcap
Morgana is not an enchanter though.
She is a Catcher.
D357R0Y3R2 votesa catcher who's one of the most contested pick right now with rakan it would only make sense to include her
Daddy Ants4 votesa catcher who's one of the most contested pick right now with rakan it would only make sense to include her
Rakan is an issue because he does a lot of things too well.
He can protect/peel. He can heal. He can engage.
As for Morgana,
I completely agree she's a problem.
Let's be realistic now, Morgana wasn't a problem before 
made a return.
I like playing Morgana but not as a Support.
I enjoy her in the Mid Lane.
I hope that when Morgana and Kayle get their joint VGU that they push Morgana towards being a Mid Lane Mage more than a Support.
As with all champs, I think it's the combination of things that makes her truly oppressive. The particular game I was talking about, I was playing Braum. For Braum, the most annoying thing is the shield because his cc is so telegraphed.
If they wanted to hit morg without compromising her more support-y abilities, binding would be the right place to hit her. I think, though, that with the rest of her kit being what it is, nerfing shield makes more sense. She has good synergy with Q, W, and R, and those abilities give her a unique champion identity. For that reason, I personally feel E is the place to hit her. It's a subjective issue, though, of course.
What could they hit on her Q to weaken her as a Support without damaging her mid lane capability?
Duration of root? The Hitbox?
The Hitbox on that thing is disgusting.
Grokmir2 votesJust give her actual mana costs. Right now she can basically spam q and w until her first back with zero thought or reprecussions.
Masala Chai5 votesThe W mana cost is actually pretty high IMO
flibitydoo2 votesShe also regens 15mana per 5, or roughly 3 mana per second. It will take approximately 24 seconds for her to recoup that her W's mana cost. This means once per minion wave, she can cast her W without actually denting her mana bar. And it's going to be like that for the entire laning phase given that support morgs max W last.
This isn't taking into account 
which increases her mana regen by 25%.
Also, it's really lame and uninteractive to have her just do that in the minion wave to trigger her W. It's a small tax, but it just feels annoying as hell having her do that everytime you move up to clear the minions (since it's guaranteed to trigger tribute, therefore, why would she not).
Skorch1 votesShe also regens 15mana per 5, or roughly 3 mana per second. It will take approximately 24 seconds for her to recoup that her W's mana cost. This means once per minion wave, she can cast her W without actually denting her mana bar. And it's going to be like that for the entire laning phase given that support morgs max W last.
This isn't taking into account
Also, it's really lame and uninteractive to have her just do that in the minion wave to trigger her W. It's a small tax, but it just feels annoying as hell having her do that everytime you move up to clear the minions (since it's guaranteed to trigger tribute, therefore, why would she not).
But when She is mid (shich is the problem) She maxes W first, which doubles the mana cost, and she doesnt build Spellthief, but instead has lost chapter.
RISE Shlack1231 votesNot at all correct, sir. I main her, and I either have to run Biscuits or start coin to deal with mana issues.
Grokmir1 votesI mean i literally saw it happen in a game. And idk if she ran Biscuits or not, but she most certainly did not need coin.
But she basically spammed up until her first back at like 8-9 minutes.
RISE Shlack1231 votesThen she was running runes to help with her mana problems. But her bindings are so telegraphed that you really have to be caught sleeping to eat them over and over.
Mutingeveryone12 votesWhy?
D357R0Y3R2 votesone of the most contested support getting a nerf?
this can't be!
Mutingeveryone11 votesone of the most contested support getting a nerf?
this can't be!
No I'm literally asking why, like...explanations.
D357R0Y3R2 voteswhat do you mean why? do you not realise that morgana can press E and deny CCS for 5 seconds until the shield is broken?
she has the exact syndrom of all enchanters, low skill targeted shield with long duration making you not thinking about when to use it and let's not get to her 3 sec snare that has the hitbox of africa, in addition to infinity mana making her pick/ban right now
Daddy Ants2 voteswhat do you mean why? do you not realise that morgana can press E and deny CCS for 5 seconds until the shield is broken?
she has the exact syndrom of all enchanters, low skill targeted shield with long duration making you not thinking about when to use it and let's not get to her 3 sec snare that has the hitbox of africa, in addition to infinity mana making her pick/ban right now
Morgana's Shield can be 1 shot off by most non support magical abilities.
I wonder if any of these champions are going to get compensation(s) for the shield duration nerf.
Not that they really need it.
If they get compensation "buffs" for some nerfs then it's not exactly a nerf is it?
It's a shift of power.
The whole point of a nerf is to reduce power, not to shift it to elsewhere in the kit.
RISE Shlack1232 votesBlack Shield is easily broken unless Morgana puts several points into it early. Which she is heavily punished for if she does by losing damage elsewhere in her kit. Outplay it or break it.
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