Ranged ADC's Need Their Own Item

Woodakoodashooda·Jun 22, 2018·4 votes·949 views

Burst, mobility, hard CC, and the new ADC changes make existence absolute Hell for ranged ADC's anymore.

If they are to survive, they could benefit from their own item.

I suggest something along the lines that provides +AD and comes with an active that allows its user to blink to a nearby unit (enemy, ally, minion, monster, visible ward). It could be an item that can be used even when CC'ed (with the exception of displacement CC and Bard's ultimate) without removing said CC. The blink distance could be made equal to the user's auto attack range, thereby making it viable for ranged ADC's.

Anyway, just a thought.

19 Comments

ChargeItDownMidJun 22, 20183 votes

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BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Ranged champions, especially autoattack reliant ones, should have inherently less mobility than their melee counterparts to make up for the massive advantage that a ranged autoattack gives.

While I agree and understand where you're coming from with this.

Think about it this way, imagine you're playing some X champion who is reliant on Auto Attacks and has (Tier 2 Boots) granting a total of 375 Movement Speed.

You see someone like Yasuo or Irelia who by default already have a high base Movement Speed of 340-345 compared to your base Movement Speed 330.

How are you suppose to kite them when most melee champions now have so many dashes, higher base movement speed and on top of all that a flash to get in range. All of these 3 things will make that range useless.

Not to mention that when Irelia or Yasuo have their core item and tier 2 boots they exceed to 400+ Movement Speed, Yasuo usually has around 420 with Phantom Dancer, not exactly sure about Irelia though somewhat close I assume.

ChargeItDownMidJun 22, 20181 votes

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BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20183 votes

{quoted}

A difference of 15 units per second in movement speed hardly makes up for the difference in 300-400 attack range. If a melee champion is commiting all of his or her dashes to get to a back line, that means they are in range for the entire enemy team to melt them while the ranged champion is only in range of 1-2 champions that dove them. In those situations, the ranged champion doesn't even need to kite, they just need to burst down the diver 5v2 while they are dashing in.

At the end of the day, league is a game which revolves around range and mobility. Champions who have longer range simply cannot be given more mobility like OP is suggesting.

I understand.

But do you think that Marksman can play around this? Or anyone without mobility in general?

https://youtu.be/BxVOg5_6g9U

Why do mobile champions who have multiple dashes need a higher base movement speed by default?

InfernapeJun 22, 20181 votes

I mean she IS at least 2-4 levels up on everyone else.

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I mean she IS at least 2-4 levels up on everyone else.

That wasn't the point, the point was that, that bonus 400 range advantage has no benefit because of how mobile she and other champions I mentioned previously are. You can't really CC them well enough when they have multiple/reset-able dashes able to dodge them.

I'm surprised anyone hasn't mentioned how Mobility is becoming an issue again, the power of mobility is easily underestimated.

ChargeItDownMidJun 22, 20181 votes

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BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Sure, don't feed to the point where someone can 1v5 your team. That clip has nothing to do with melee vs range, that was just one team being far behind and not ffing when the game was clearly over.

It's not a matter of feeding it's the fact that she is simply too effective after she gets her core item, Trinity Force. With Marking enemies with her E and R, she can then just press point to click Q to get off some free damage.

###The fact that she is able to apply Q x3 times means...

She will deal a total of = around 200 dmg per Q cast Put something like Titanic Hydra on top of that and she will deal even more (hard to calculate due to % health damage values based on level)

Point to click abilities are not healthy in the game, even if it's an ability that is core to a character.

ChargeItDownMidJun 22, 20181 votes

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BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Compared to something like essence reaver lucian with his dashes, I would much rather deal with a champion who has to dash into the middle of the enemy team while she does damage than someone who can keep dashing away from the enemy team while still pelting them with damage.

When it comes to dashes, a free targeting spell is actually much unhealthier than a targeted one because of the increased mobility options.

Yeah I agree, honestly Essense Reaver change idea was interesting but it simply overbuffs certain champions...

Aka: Lucian, Renekton, Master Yi

GabresolJun 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4w64nnTd,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-22T06:28:13.594+0000)

While I agree and understand where you're coming from with this.

Think about it this way, imagine you're playing some X champion who is reliant on Auto Attacks and has (Tier 2 Boots) granting a total of 375 Movement Speed.

You see someone like Yasuo or Irelia who by default already have a high base Movement Speed of 340-345 compared to your base Movement Speed 330.

How are you suppose to kite them when most melee champions now have so many dashes, higher base movement speed and on top of all that a flash to get in range. All of these 3 things will make that range useless.

Not to mention that when Irelia or Yasuo have their core item and tier 2 boots they exceed to 400+ Movement Speed, Yasuo usually has around 420 with Phantom Dancer, not exactly sure about Irelia though somewhat close I assume.

since ADCs build at least 2 zeal items (Crit adcs shiv and Rapid, non crit likely still go runaan's and rapid) they get a 10% or even 12% movementspeed buff just from that.

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

since ADCs build at least 2 zeal items (Crit adcs shiv and Rapid, non crit likely still go runaan's and rapid) they get a 10% or even 12% movementspeed buff just from that.

Not all Marksman build Crit though.

GabresolJun 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4w64nnTd,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-22T08:50:04.679+0000)

Not all Marksman build Crit though.

Even AP Varus players decide to go rapid and runaan's if the situation allows it. ADCs who do not go zeal items are Lethality MF, who has her W to compensate, Ezreal, who has his e, Kog'Maw goes runaan's, Kalista as well, so do Twitch and Kai'sa. Corki oes rapid, Lucian has his e to compentase... Am I missing someone?

CochoJun 22, 20182 votes

There are still a lot of ADCs who are perfectly fine.

Draven, Lucian, Kaisa, MF, Ezreal, Varus

That's like almost 1/3rd of the typical bot marksmen.

You're just over-reacting.

I promise you if I looked up a recent vod of competitve play, there will be more or equal amounts of marksmen bot compared to not marksmen.

Of the games I've watch in LCK, there are a lot more mages than melees. Notably Swain and Vladimir. Your item doesn't fix anything because melees bot aren't a problem. And it'd be a hard argument to say that mages bot are strictly better than marksmen. Melees sure aren't. They don't boast high winrates and/or pickrates in competitve or soloqueue (besides morde)

Just because champs that aren't marksmen are viable in bot, it doesn't mean its a problem. Mages or Melees that are good bot lane shouldn't just be a free lane lol.

saltranJun 22, 20181 votes

Don't put Varus there if we are talking about soloQ and I agree.

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 22, 20183 votes

{quoted}

There are still a lot of ADCs who are perfectly fine.

Draven, Lucian, Kaisa, MF, Ezreal, Varus

That's like almost 1/3rd of the typical bot marksmen.

You're just over-reacting.

I promise you if I looked up a recent vod of competitve play, there will be more or equal amounts of marksmen bot compared to not marksmen.

Of the games I've watch in LCK, there are a lot more mages than melees. Notably Swain and Vladimir. Your item doesn't fix anything because melees bot aren't a problem. And it'd be a hard argument to say that mages bot are strictly better than marksmen. Melees sure aren't. They don't boast high winrates and/or pickrates in competitve or soloqueue (besides morde)

Just because champs that aren't marksmen are viable in bot, it doesn't mean its a problem. Mages or Melees that are good bot lane shouldn't just be a free lane lol.

Varus isn't fine.

His winrate was down to 42% winrate at some point, currently at a 45.8% winrate. No one plays him anymore, as his pickrate dropped from 7.83% to 1.66%.

Other champions can somewhat get away with going mid such as; Kai'Sa, Ezreal, Lucian due to their mobility and safety. Varus mid was viable once but that was a long time ago, he can go mid but he would struggle heavily due to his immobility, and low damage at the early game.

saltranJun 22, 20181 votes

And Varus mid got hit really hard with the Q cd nerfs.

Warlord RhinarkJun 22, 20182 votes

Just buy a fricking item 3139 you damn goon.

OmegaNITROJun 22, 20181 votes

A nice idea, but that item sounds terrible. The counterplay to ADC(Marksmen) is to CC or gap close on them, tank their damage and burst them down.

So there's already tools to combat that, have your summoner 4 up, build item 3140 , stay away from enemies that can jump on you. Being good at that while still doing damage is a big part of what makes you a good ADC, and it's important that skill expression isn't taken away by giving ADCs an exclusive extra get out of jail card.

If that kind of item was good, ADCs actually would be as unfair as a lot of people that hate the role like to pretend they were before midseason. The only way it would be balanced is if that item was intentionally trash.

The reason ADCs are bad right now isn't because of their natural counterplay. Their strengths have been gutted and spread across the other classes. Damage is everywhere, so you don't need an ADC to deal consistent DPS. Turrets have been made laughably easy to take by everyone, so you don't need an ADC for objectives. Their power spikes were pushed back, and snowball was increased to end the game early, so many ADCs can never expect to hit their power spikes in even lanes. Their base stats got nerfed, so they struggle to lane against other classes, even in the duo lane, which was the only lane with enough safety to keep them from being jumped on so they could play to their ranges.

If the other classes have damage and objective taking ability on top of their other strengths, spike earlier and don't need to worry about being outscaled, plus they can beat ADCs in every lane, why pick an ADC? That's what the actual problems are.

It would be nice to have some new items to allow for better build diversity and maintain the relevancy of the class without assassins and fighters abusing the items ( item 3095 , item 3508 ). But a second flash would not be that item.