Why I think CertainlyT is an amazing designer

SwapShadows··26 votes·2,094 views

EDIT: I wouldn't count mordekaiser at all, he's a champion that wasn't built from the groundup while also forced to go to a completely different lane

Before we even talk about CT let's look at some champions with kits I highly dislike Vi Warwick Leona Annie Blitzcrank Pantheon MorganaAlistar Ekko (even more but you get the point)

Why do I dislike these types of kits? because they all 9/10 times do the same exact thing no matter what situation they are in, this to me means that a kit is completely boring or just straight unsuccessful.

I feel like a successful kit is a kit that gives you a ton of options in different situations and you can make the best or worst of a situation dependant on your skill and knowledge with that champion. On the other hand a fail design is one that requires barely any thinking and limits your options in different situations, having success with these types of kits means you have to get used to spamming the same combo over and over and over without any kind of altering or very little needed.

Let's look at kits that I feel are successful Zed Yasuo Thresh Azir Ahri MonkeyKing Lucian (etc) Why do I think these kits are successful? disregard numbers or anything like that, these champions have so many options that are completely dependant on the users knowledge. You can tell when you're up against a god zed or a amateur zed, you can tell when that thresh is on his 1000th thresh game or on his 1st thresh game. There is no confusion as to why champions like these have decent fanbases or high % of mains, they make you feel like you're doing a great job when you make a great play by altering combos, dodging, juking etc.

now when I compare Thresh to other supports Alistar Braum Janna Leona TahmKench Sona Soraka (etc) you can see why I like his kit

Now onto CertainlyT -My favorite of his designs are Yasuo and Thresh due to reasons stated above -I do like Kalista but one thing that really irritates me is that she's both team and self reliant due to her passive and ultimate, I feel like kalista could use a rework to make her focused on one or the other -Does he make mistakes? of course but that's the price you pay when you try to make something different from the norm

tl;dr You can dislike CertainlyT all you want but you should give him respect for creating champions with thought-oriented kits that actually give you options based on your mastery of that champion.

64 Comments

Noctius289 votes

I'm sorry but the champs you say have different playstyles are just as "one trick pony combo" as any of the ones you dislike Ekko can approach a problem in some many ways it's incredible Vi may have a tried and tested combo but she still has many ways to confront an enemy (I have a specific combo uniquely to face and wreck any Yasuo for example)

now the ones you think that are SOOOOO different also have tried and true combos that everyone mostly uses unless the situation asks for something else like Wukong W to go in, E to close gap, AA, Q, Ulti

That is the main combo for any wukong, both noobs and pro use it, does not means he is any more well or worst designed then Garen or Yasuo

Peoples problem is that they can do ANYTHING without fear or dificulty and normally have abilities that are simply unfair to the ones facing them, like Yasuos windwall being the biggest case

Big Lincoln8 votes

I like that he can think outside the box

I don't like that this usual creative thinking didn't apply to Mordekaiser

SwapShadows1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u26rGEt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-19T15:48:41.106+0000)

I like that he can think outside the box

I don't like that this usual creative thinking didn't apply to Mordekaiser

forgot to mention that mordekaiser doesn't really count, He had to work on a champion that he couldn't even build from the groundup while also having to put him at a completely different role

Big Lincoln6 votes

he was work done by certainlyT, I think it merits discussion

I can at least respect the idea behind it, but I don't like how it was executed. I'd be very interested to know how he might do a larger scope rework though

SwapShadows1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u26rGEt,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-19T15:55:11.584+0000)

he was work done by certainlyT, I think it merits discussion

I can at least respect the idea behind it, but I don't like how it was executed. I'd be very interested to know how he might do a larger scope rework though

but the thing is he worked on a champion that wasn't his to begin with while trying to keep his identity.

If he got a complete rework from certainlyT then he would be a completely different champion with almost no relation to previous mordekaiser hence why I don't count him.

Hellioning1 votes

But he did get a complete rework from CertainlyT that is a completely different champion with almost no relation to the previous Mordekaiser.

SwapShadows1 votes

{quoted}

But he did get a complete rework from CertainlyT that is a completely different champion with almost no relation to the previous Mordekaiser.

mordekaisers rework isn't even defined as a complete rework and also he is still pretty similar to old mordekaiser except a few new things added on or taken away.

Hellioning2 votes

Old Morde was a burst mage, New morde's more of a bruiser. Q and W have changed drastically. Even his title has changed.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Complete rework would be what they did to Sion. Completely different abilities except that he still has a shield. Morde still has literally the same set of abilities except his Q now hits 3 times for multiplicative damage and his W can apply to an ally and has new effects. Oh and his ult can ghost dragon now for whatever reason.

Hellioning2 votes

Except those changes to his abilities have completely changed basically everything about him. He's a duo laner, now.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

That's cool, but it doesn't refute my point in any way shape or form. Also he can still solo lane if he really wants to with the latest modification.

Hellioning1 votes

Well, for one, his solo lane win rate is significantly worse then his duo lane win rate. A 10% difference.

Secondly, his Q is different (you now have to hit three times, but the third hit is absolutely ridiculous), his W is different (added healing, has that stupid passive attached to it), and he has a dragon ghost now. Those are fairly massive changes.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Not sure you even read my post about his changes, as I listed all of those in my earlier reply... Basically closer to a Cass level rework than Sion. I could go over the Sion rework if you want, cause that's what's defined as a complete rework.

Additionally I said he COULD solo lane, didn't say he was particularly good at it. Just better than he was when he couldn't use W in a solo lane.

Hellioning1 votes

A Cass level rework? Yeah, I'd say Morde is a Cass level rework.

In that they took everything vaguely interesting about it, completely removed it, and focused absolutely every bit of power in that champion on a single ability, resulting in a nightmare to balance and a really boring, unhealthy playstyle.

Sure, technically they're the same abilities. But Morde doesn't play the same; he has different focuses now. Just like how Cass doesn't play the same, she has different things to focus on now.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

I don't get how you're still not seeing what I'm saying...I'm not denying that they made morde less fun or anything...Okay, lets look at Sion's kit for a second. His Q: used to be a single targeted stun scaling with AP and is now an AoE channeled knockup. Complete change. His W: Used to be a shield scaling with AP which would combine with his Q and lich bane to basically just instagib squishy targets and now it's a shield scaling with his HP and tacked on his old E stacking health mechanic. His E: Used to be just an AD steroid at the cost of health per hit and had his health stacking mechanic on it and now it's a skillshot armor reducing slow that can also launch minions. His Ult: used to be a bunch of lifesteal and attack speed and is now the 'pain train' or whatever you want to call it. As for his passive, it used to just block damage as a semi-useful lane tool and his passive now is a cool thematic thing that's occasionally really clutch in finishing someone off in a close fight.

So, do we see all of those COMPLETE changes? That's a complete rework. I'm not saying they didn't change morde, just saying it's not a complete rework. More like a champion update, though that's not quite the right word for it I don't think.

Hellioning1 votes

And I'm saying that Morde TECHNICALLY having similar abilities doesn't mean anything when those abilities have been changed so much that he might as well be a new champion.

It's like adding AD ratios to LeBlanc's Q and E, changing her R to an attack speed steroid or something, and then gutting her AP ratios. Technically you haven't changed much about her actual abilities, but you have completely changed how she's played.

LaowPing1 votes

^This

I understand what he was trying to go for. Make a champion who has no cc, no range, and no mobility (but a fuckton of damage), actually viable. They decided to maintain his identity of no cc, range, and mobility by putting him with a support who can provide those things. It makes sense. ADC's often have weaknesses they need they're team to cover up for. The problem was that Mord was overtuned. His w passive was probably meant to persuade people into trying him bot but it's to strong. ADC's don't scale with levels, other classes do, so he naturally gets a advantage just for existing.

I also like the idea of the dragon but feel it's too hard to kill. Again, the idea makes sense. If Mord if the adc your seige is going to be lacking, so they give him something to make up for that. The problem is that, as I said, it's hard as hell to kill. You go from having good siege to "I'm just gonna take this tower and you can't really stop me." On top of that, he gets dragon too easily. He'll be ahead in levels and he naturally pushes the wave with normal farming.

I do like CertainT's designs but I feel like the execution behind them is their only problem. With someone who's linear like Annie, it's easy to balance her numbers since she's only do one thing. With someone like Yasuo, there's so many more interactions and uses you have to account for.

Malicious Metal3 votes

My thoughts exactly.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u26rGEt,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-10-19T15:52:10.511+0000)

My thoughts exactly.

explain what is the "box"

Malicious Metal4 votes

The box is Thresh's ultimate which creates four walls that slow by 99% and deal magic damage.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u26rGEt,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-19T16:00:58.739+0000)

The box is Thresh's ultimate which creates four walls that slow by 99% and deal magic damage.

it makes no sens, how is he "thinking" outside the box?

redniwediS1 votes

It's a common phrase in English, you may want to just look it up.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u26rGEt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-19T15:48:41.106+0000)

I like that he can think outside the box

I don't like that this usual creative thinking didn't apply to Mordekaiser

but it did. who would have thought of letting morde take the ghost of the drake or put him in as a bot lane fighter so hes able to siege turrets with it?

morde might need work, but te concept is pretty awesome.

Big Lincoln1 votes

that's not really.. interesting, nor something that anyone really wanted after the initial hype of "oh wow a dragon ghost" went away

would prefer power that's accessible more than once every six minutes

Shadow Gilgamesh4 votes

I feel like the reasons we DON'T like a lot of CTs champs is that while you can tell the difference between an alright and a god tier player, a lot of his champs have like, training wheels that let his champs feel overbearing or unfun even in the hands of an amateur, mainly because the things that give high skill players choices, still give low skill players an overloaded kit.

Zed can just poke in lane and never go for a kill without ult and he'll never get ganked. Yasuo has windwall, flow shield and as many dashes as there are minions in the lane, allowing even a new Yasuo player to be a melee carry who's only range is third Q without just getting obliterated in mid lane. Thresh can pretty much do the Blitzcrank thing of "I only have to hit once" with his Q, so it's not even necessary for him to do cool moves like righteous glory into flay for an engage, saving his ult and Q to disable/isolate high priority targets. Old Darius was just "Q anytime someone tries to take a creep, pull, auto, W, dunk as a follow up if they're low enough"

If there's a newbie Wukong, 9 times out of 10 they'll use their W right after EQ to disengage a trade, you can punish that really easy (and average Jungle Wukongs will likely use W as part of their gank engage every time, so you can focus them freely when they go in, unlike Elise) If an Ahri just throws out charms hoping for a hit, as a lot of amateur Ahri's do, they'll run out of mana fairly fast, and you can punish failed charms pre6 really easily. Azir is just terrible in the hands of an amateur And so on.

LVL 5 PORO4 votes

I'd hate whoever made Yasuo so its nothing personal.

Meep Man3 votes

CertainlyT

Pros:

  • Good Designer

Cons:

  • Most of his champions have poor balancing
AMYS GRAVE3 votes

Who knew you would enjoy champions who have overloaded kits that can cover their weaknesses?

Baunjo1 votes

elaborate. Give examples.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

His basic argument seems to be

I feel like a successful kit is a kit that gives you a ton of options in different situations and you can make the best or worst of a situation dependant on your skill and knowledge with that champion.

that he wants every champion to have every tool they could possibly need. The weakness of most champions are that they are missing those tools, and if every champion has tools to do everything then none stand out as unique from a gameplay standpoint. Why pick a champion who is good at engage if you can pick a champion who has engage, disengage, a shield, a heal, is tanky, good base damage, etc... It doesn't feel good to be vulnerable in some way, but that is a necessary part of champion design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Since league is based on the principles of perfect imbalance, having champions that can do anything (generalists) are problematic, because they can use the tools that counter you but you don't have the tools to counter them. If every champion had tools to counter every other champion then the game gets stale, because every game becomes the same. Where does the variety in games come from? The only things that change game to game are the champions in game, so thats where the variety has to come from. Thats why having well defined strengths and weaknesses is so important, the variety keeps us coming back.

Baunjo1 votes

He doesn't mean have tools for every situation whatsoever, he really just means that he does not like 1 dimmensional kits, something I personally agree with. I'm sure you didn't actually bother looking at the non examples, so i'll help you out with that:

Pantheon His abilities are set up to where you can only do 1 thing with it, he is a very black and white step 1 step 2 step 3 kinda champion. W E Q is really the only thing you can do with him in the way of a spell rotation without being useless

Warwick Again absolutely nothing in his kit that provides options. Completely auto attack reliant when his ult is down, and when his ult is up all you do is lock-down 1 single target then go back to more auto attacking. Again, there is nothing in his kit to provoke anything but Ult slap slap slap.

Alistar Same thing. Outside of his E Q, which have no diversity, he just Ults, runs around being a useless cow and occasionally heals stuff until his E Q comes back up.

Vi Although I really enjoy this champion, she is the exact same way. Sure your Q can take you all over, But either way as long as your ult is up you are going to end up in the ass of highest damage dealer on the team with a point and click ultimate that cannot be interupted. Then guess what's next? Punch punch punch punch!!!!

Does that make sense now? It's not a matter of just the champion having a tool for everything. Although that is the case, with the champions that have those tools it is very specific the effect. So for example:

Thresh Disengage, engage, hard cc, peel, he's got it all. However he does not just have unlimited cooldowns and like 12 abilities where most champions have 4. He has 4 abilities that are either used 1 way or the other way, with no exceptions until they are back off cooldown.

Examples of this are thresh cannot use his lantern to save someone then just leave it there for the next guy to grab when thresh engages. His lantern is down and it will be for another 22/20.5/19/17/16 seconds. Most fights are not long enough to use that ability twice anyway.

In fact all of his abilities are that way, E can be used to pull them towards you but not push away until it is up again. Q can be used to gap close but thresh doesn't magically get to change his mind and blink back to where he was like Leblanc His ult is completely stationary, he doesn't get to keep moving it whenever he wants and it too has a cooldown.

I can do this with a lot of champions but thresh just happens to be the subject of a lot of QQ these days, so I hope you understand what I was getting at

EDIT: I missed something. With the simple champions there is never any room for decision making. Their mechanics are so basic that there was nothing better you could have done in the situation than you did assuming you used your basic step by step abilities. There is just no room to change the game when you are behind unless the enemy team does something completely retarded.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

I'm sorry that you cant see the decision making involved with "simple" champions though. Its not like Engaging a good teamfight takes any decision making at all. Or the thought that alistar could fuck up his teammates with a misused headbutt, or pantheon could peel for his carry with his stun. Nope they can only do their one combo with no decision making at all.... They just engage every time their abilities are up with no thinking.

Dem straw man arguments man.

I'm sure you didn't actually bother looking at the non examples, so i'll help you out with that:

If you're just going to be condescending this conversation is over. Perfect imbalane. If you want to have conversations about champion balance you need to understand that.

SouL1ess2 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry that you cant see the decision making involved with "simple" champions though. Its not like Engaging a good teamfight takes any decision making at all. Or the thought that alistar could fuck up his teammates with a misused headbutt, or pantheon could peel for his carry with his stun. Nope they can only do their one combo with no decision making at all.... They just engage every time their abilities are up with no thinking.

Dem straw man arguments man.

If you're just going to be condescending this conversation is over. Perfect imbalane. If you want to have conversations about champion balance you need to understand that.

Swapshadow's entire premise is that champion kits are only good when they are given options to mechanically outplay the opponent.

The people who agree with him fail to see the strategic element involved in a MOBA game.

SnugglePuggle943 votes

Yasuo is the most overloaded, annoying champ in the game. CertainlyT is an awful designer.

Lord Boltrix2 votes

I'll be upfront, I don't mind the CertainlyT rework innately, it tries to address problems of Mordekaiser that were namely toxic. I just think it is rather weird in how the power is distributed, and being forced to bot is what causes all the uproar. Some Morde's liked old Morde for being a tanky burst mage, that is fine, but pre-rework Morde mains rarely if ever go against another Morde main, hence they don't readily understand how unfun it could be to face him pre-rework, think Yasuo: very fun to play, very unfun to play against.

Honestly, Mordekaiser doesn't need that massive a rework, his kit simply needs to function while at the same time addressing the innate problems, his kit right now can work, it just needs adjustments and ensures that Mordekaiser is neither overpowered nor toxic.

Vhalthoria2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Boltrix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u26rGEt,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-19T16:30:03.290+0000)

I'll be upfront, I don't mind the CertainlyT rework innately, it tries to address problems of Mordekaiser that were namely toxic. I just think it is rather weird in how the power is distributed, and being forced to bot is what causes all the uproar. Some Morde's liked old Morde for being a tanky burst mage, that is fine, but pre-rework Morde mains rarely if ever go against another Morde main, hence they don't readily understand how unfun it could be to face him pre-rework, think Yasuo: very fun to play, very unfun to play against.

Honestly, Mordekaiser doesn't need that massive a rework, his kit simply needs to function while at the same time addressing the innate problems, his kit right now can work, it just needs adjustments and ensures that Mordekaiser is neither overpowered nor toxic.

I faced Morde quite often during the Pre-Work era and it's really not hard to deal with him and dominate him, especially since I was a main and know how to counter him perfectly no problem.

The crying has to do more with those who didn't know how to play against him and lacked the knowledge to use his weaknesses against him.

Catastrop2 votes

I like his designs(bar Yasuo), they're all cool and everything but I dislike how they're so hard to balance. You either straight up gut the champion or over buff them out the ass.

Hellioning2 votes

Strange.

The reasons that you like CertainlyT's designs are the reasons I don't like them. I feel they give too many options to the people playing them, meaning that I have to hope they screw up or I'm at a massive disadvantage if I'm playing a champion that does not have those options.

SwapShadows1 votes

{quoted}

Strange.

The reasons that you like CertainlyT's designs are the reasons I don't like them. I feel they give too many options to the people playing them, meaning that I have to hope they screw up or I'm at a massive disadvantage if I'm playing a champion that does not have those options.

How are options bad? they make up strategic gameplay, I guess you enjoy playing against annie?

Hellioning4 votes

Because I don't have options. The person playing a CertainlyT champ gets loads of options for dealing with me; my options are 'die' and 'hope they screw up and I'm in position to punish.'

Thresh, for example, has basically everything you need in a support; with relic shield, he even has some measure of sustain. Compare that to, say, Soraka, or Janna, who are REALLY GOOD at one thing and kinda mediocre at everything else.

SwapShadows1 votes

{quoted}

Because I don't have options. The person playing a CertainlyT champ gets loads of options for dealing with me; my options are 'die' and 'hope they screw up and I'm in position to punish.'

Thresh, for example, has basically everything you need in a support; with relic shield, he even has some measure of sustain. Compare that to, say, Soraka, or Janna, who are REALLY GOOD at one thing and kinda mediocre at everything else.

That's not exactly what i'm talking about. Ekko has a lot of things in his kit but he has barely any options on how to combo his abilities, it's usually the same exact combo which leaves less room for failure.

So technically someone with less options has a greater advantage due to lack of skill being present. An amateur annie is far more effective than an amateur Zed because of this.

Hellioning1 votes

Yes? You don't need every single champion to have multiple ways to do something; that just leads, again, to them being too good in most situations. That's the entire point; someone who is good at less things need to be great at the the things they are good at, otherwise they're completely useless.

Of course that Amateur Annie is gonna be more effective then Amateur Zed; Annie's all point and click abilities. Zed, meanwhile, has to aim.

Ralanr2 votes

This is the reasoning I assume is behind everyone who mains a non-overloaded champion when fighting an overloaded champion. And it's completely understandable.

Yasuo's E is something people cannot counter. We cannot kill our own minions and even if he can't do it to the same target within 10 seconds it doesn't always matter because he got to us. Minions (and they fail at this already) are supposed to be a defensive wall early game, Yasuo uses them against us.

How do we counter that?

Stephenizgod2 votes

Well honestly it is your opinion that those champions are binary or boring leaving no option, there are actually a lot of different ways to combo Vi or Leona depending on the situation. This is just like your Thresh example, there are god Leona's who know when and where to go in and bad Leona's who just spam the combo on the nearest thing. You can W+E+Q+R over and over again and be successful but there is more to it then that, you can use E on the front line to get to the back line, you can peel, you can use it to go over walls if you hit an enemy, you can use it to block skill shots, your stun can be offensive or defensive it can be used to cancel abilities or lock down the front line, etc. The same argument you used for Thresh can be used on most of those champions you said had boring kits, the only reason Thresh seems less boring is because his overloaded kit (im not saying he is OP but come on he can do pretty much everything a support needs to other then heal). Yes some champions are more straight forward in what they can do then others, but this is not bad champion design this is very good champion diversity, you need both hard and easy champions. CertainlyT is actually ruining this balance with their champions, because they are so far above those simple champs in overall power that they seem almost obsolete.

The reason i bring this up because it doesn't really have anything to do with CertainlyT. You say boring kit, but isn't Darius' kit like this? I mean his combo rarely ever changes... the only thing that changes it is how far they are from him which is the same for all champions pretty much. I don't disagree with you overall though, CertainlyT is a great champion designer but he is incredibly bad at balancing his champions. This is more on the fact that they do not know how to properly implement some of his outside the box mechanics, so you can't really blame him that no one else is balancing his champions before putting them into the game. I mean he clearly does not know how to balance them, thats why they are so incredibly overpowered.

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

I wouldn't call thought-oriented kits overloaded kits or kits that are extremely toxic against some kind of champions.

Thresh - ALL his skills can be used as engage or disengage. Has 3 CC (stun, knock up and slow), is tanky and can poke. Kalista - You are melee? You better lock me down and burst me or else you NEVER, EVER get to me. And f** skill shots. Only click and point HARD-CC, something that is being removed from the game. OH, and I have an AOE knock up that throws my hard engage suport into your team. Poor varus that had to pay up with mobility. Darius - Melee? Good luck. I used to be a lane bully with insane damage but I would fall of late game. Now I have sustain. And now I have more items that give me move speed and make me tanky. Yasuo - Skill shot? Try to hit me. Omg a skill shot and no minios to jump! windwall. Sucked up your ult, nami ult and your ADC can't AA me. And I can solo tanks. Because I need +50% armor pen in my ult. (double passive passive, Q has a passive, E has a passive).

C'T can make some fun champions. Some fun and toxic champions. With little to no counterplay. Tresh can be a pain but, becaase eh is a suport and won't solo carry the game he gets a free pass, but the rest....

HentRex1 votes

Mord rework imo was phenomenal. Just over tuned. Easily fixed. Q- additive instead of multiplicative, W- Been fixed to allow solo casting, E- never changed, R- drag having static numbers based on Mord's ult rank. That aside, you said you liked champion kits that allowed diverse situations but dislike ekko? He has some of the most flexibility from a kit that I can think of. On top of that most of the kits you disliked are from early champions when the game first started so yes they are very basic. They are focused on doing one thing and doing it well. Have never nor will I ever knock anyone of the designers of the game. Mainly because they do it better than the vast majority of the community could.( talking 99.9% of us) That said I've noticed that newly released/reworked champions tend to come out strong and then toned back. Probably to get play for the champ, and for Riot to make some quick money off of them.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

i personally like CertainlyT simply because this community is toxic so i don't trust any of their opinions i wouldn't even trust them to be decent people offline.though i do dislike Yasuo and Thresh i love Kalista since she does have weaknesses she is very easy to poke and out duel plus she has to build attack speed just to ramp up her rend her dash is very clunky without attack speed so she is very reliant on items to do anything plus she can fall off late game with teams that have high AOE or tanks and she needs a "protect the adc" team comp to do anything

MohawkBird1 votes

While I do think CertaintlyT's designs are extremely fun, he manages to create some of the most overloaded on toxic champions in the game, and most of that is not because of balance numbers, it is just straight up overloaded kits. I think his champions would be great and balanced if every kit he made didn't include some sort of broken mechanic or so many hidden power and passives.

LaserDeathBlade1 votes

I think CT's champs are the most fun to play but some players don't like playing against them

I think the popularity of CT champs is really what sparks a lot of outrage against them. People might like to play Poppy who's far more toxic than any CT champ but Poppy's rarer than a unicorn whereas Yasuo in every game.

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