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Elise was overnerfed

Koechophe··103 votes·7,646 views

This is the history of all the Elise nerfs

V4.13: Cocoon -Missile width reduced to 55 from 70. Fixed a bug where Cocoon was providing vision longer than the stun duration (now correctly matches it). Rappel -Rappel now calculates its range from the center of Elise to the center of the target from the edge of Elise to the edge of the target (an approximate increase of 75 range). Range reduced to 750 from 925 (~825 range using the old center-center targeting calculations).

V4.4: Neurotoxin -Base damage reduced to 40 / 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 from 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200. -Max damage to monsters reduced to 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150. Venomous Bite -Base damage reduced to 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 from 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260. -Max damage to monsters reduced to 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150. Cocoon -Stun duration changed to 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds from 1.5 at all ranks. Rappel -Cooldown reduced to 26 / 23 / 20 / 17 / 14 seconds from 26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18. Spider Form -Spiderlings health changed to 85-390 from 90-260.

V3.10: Spiderlings -Health reduced to 90-260 from 125-550. -Armor increased to 30/50/70/90 from 30 (based on Spider Form rank). -Magic resist increased to 50/70/90/110 from 50 (based on Spider Form rank). -Multi-target damage reduction adjusted to 25% from 10/20/30/40%. -Spiderlings no longer continue taking actions before vanishing once Elise shifts into Human Form. -Spiderlings now group closer together while moving. Volatile Spiderling -Movement speed reduced. Rappel -Elise can no longer descend outside of the indicated area. -Fixed a bug where Elise could begin casting spells and attacking as soon as she began her descent while she was still untargetable. -Spiderlings will now descend from Rappel slightly after Elise instead of descending at the same time.

V3.7: Skittering Frenzy -Ability power ratio increased to 0.04 from 0.02. Spider Form -No longer grants bonus armor and magic resist.

V3.04: Neurotoxin -Cast range reduced to 625 from 650. -Damage reduced to 40/80/120/160/200 from 50/95/140/185/230. Venomous Bite -Damage increased to 60/110/160/210/260 from 50/95/140/185/230.

V3.01: -Neurotoxin -Mana cost increased to 80/85/90/95/100 from 60. Cocoon -Mana cost reduced to 50 from 65.

Essentially, elise's mobility, her tankiness, her damage, her mana costs, her range, her cc and her clear times were all nerfed. They nerfed absolutely everything about this champion, and not lightly. Her spiderlings hp was cut in half, her damage was cut by about 30% and she lost a LOT of reliability in its execution.

Further, the meta in which she was OP has come and gone. It used to be that anyone with health burn was wildly op because every champ in the game was running warmongs (remember zac everyone?). Now, however, health burn isn't really very big of a deal, (especially since they're adding it to a lot of champions, like sejuani, maoki and sion). All of this leads her to the lowest win ratio of any champion (41%).

Objectively, elise is lacking in any strengths that set her apart from other junglers

  1. Her ganks aren't nearly as strong as several other early pressure junglers. She has barely any cc and her damage isn't as good as champs like lee and khazix. And level 6 adds nothing to her ganks, unlike champs like mumu and hecarim.
  2. Her clear times are okay, but not as high as other high-clear junglers. She doesn't have issues clearing, but champs like nunu and fiddlesticks will take objectives far better.
  3. She's not even remotely tanky. She has no innate tankiness.
  4. She has barely any utility. Her stun is nice, but it's 1 second until late game, and it's her only real utility.

But random buffing wouldn't really help. Elise suffers from a common issue of identity crisis. She is baseline good at everything, and therefore lacks any real weaknesses. Because of that, she's been nerfed so that she doesn't have any real strengths that define her, either. Riot has recently stated that their design focus is in giving champions different niches and making it so that they have clear weaknesses and strengths. Elise currently lacks that, and due to being overnerfed, is barely viable.

TL;DR: Elise needs help.

Upvote and bump if you agree. Thanks for your time.

101 Comments

Miudmon20 votes

Personally, i never got the last set of nerfs. Never saw her Even then, and it was like " See? We finally lovetapped Lee. Now to gut Elise so she wont be better in competitivr" just stupid

Veraska15 votes

a waaaaayyy while back some red did a "lets talk elise" thing where they got a bunch of input from elise players about what they liked about her so they knew what to retain in a rework, but the problem was all of her players were listing off her raw power and aspects like clear speed and flexible itemization as their favorite things as opposed to specific gameplay and thematic elements. so they delayed the rework until they could fix her lack of a solid identity (as opposed to her identity of just being all around good)

you said it yourself she lacks an identity and is only worth picking when she outclasses other champions. she's versatile so she can fit into any team comp, but she really doesn't offer a mechanic or strategic niche to pick her over any other champion. that needs to change.

she shouldn't be a jack of all trades (or more like a master of nothing as this point) she should have a niche use that makes her strong in the thing she's good at. something that screams "spider queen" y'know?

Velasan9 votes

I don't really play elise but reading the comments I wanted to add why can't elise's niche be her flexibility? Sometimes it's good to have a champion with multiple different build paths and options.

As for nerfs yeah that does seem like a lot. I've seen some good elise's out there though. Reminds me of how they started nerfing Zyra after she was in the championship team and now it's like.. who plays zyra? She's immobile and doesn't do a lot of anything specific that another champion doesn't do.

Sounds like elise!

Honestly though they will probably not do anything with her for a long time. I'm still waiting on Azir fixes and here they are already talking about tweaks to his skill numbers on the PBE when his ult is currently not functioning. e.e

Dracid2 votes

this is what i was going to say. Whats so bad about not being amazing at one thing but being good-great at all things

Veraska11 votes

it means you don't have any real weaknesses. so she's either over tuned and outclass everyone in her position. or she's undertuned and nobody plays her. its like how lucian was pre changes (arguably still) was just a general good pick who was also stronger then any other carry while also fitting into any team comp.

champions need to have an actual strengths and weaknesses. elise is okay at everything and her only weakness is that other champions do what she can do better. but those aren't gameplay oriented strenghts or weaknesses. just stats that can be changed. not true weaknesses or true strengths.

Veraska2 votes

flexibility is good at a high level competitive standpoint. its why kha'zix and lee sin were the top 2 junglers because they're flexible and offer early game pressure, the problem with that being a strategic niche is that if you don't do it best. you're not worth picking. like elise in her current state.

flexibility is a good thing, but i don't think its something that can offer great gameplay. like okay elise is a ball of mediocre-good stats and she can kinda do everything so shes flexible. but she doesn't really excel at anything or offer any interesting gameplay another champion couldn't do.

Koechophe16 votes

This is also why Orianna always pops up as a competative pick. She's arguably the most flexible midlane mage in the game.

Also, I don't think anyone is really happy with the current state of elise. Flexibility is probably not the best design goal, because it not only creates a feast or famine scenario, but it also creates a scenario where the only time a champion is viable is when the top .00001% of the community plays them.

There's no good reason for flexibility to be the biggest strength, because it takes away from the dynamics of the game. You should have to make sacrifices when picking a champion. I.E. when you pick ezreal/katarina, you're sacrificing cc and utility for more damage and mobility. When you pick champions like nautilus or sejuani, you're sacrificing damage for tankiness and cc. With champions who have too much flexability, you sacrifice nothing, which makes them either OP or undertuned, hardly ever in between. I think flexability is a good thing, but only in the sense that a champion can choose different paths to take, instead of a champion being able to do everything well. For instance, the fact that lee sin can choose to be either an assassin or a tank is good. The fact that (most often) lee sin ends up being both an assassin AND a tank is bad.

Elise needs to be either forced into one playstyle (either assassin or bruiser, because that's what her main playstyles are) or she needs to have a defined choice between one or the other. If elise does well, she becomes both a bruiser AND an assassin, which brings a lack of counterplay. If elise doesn't do well, she becomes neither an assassin nor a bruiser, and feels incredibly weak. The fact that she has all of her power put in the early stages of the game only makes this issue worse. Because riot has tried to preserve all of the playstyles that elise represents, all of them end up being lackluster. She needs definition.

Veraska2 votes

this guy gets it. nicely worded friend

Feathermane5 votes

Kha'Zix being popular ha nothing to do with flexibility. Everyone builds him the same way and evolves the same ability. You might potentially swap two evolutions e.g R@6, Q@11 but that's not more than most other champions. He gets picked for having stealth, resets and burst.

Veraska3 votes

i didn't mean flexibility in terms of itemization. more that he just fits into multiple team comps he could be in an all in comp. or he could be in a siege comp. all he had to do was do bug things in the early levels and just go with whatever the rest of his team was gonna do.

basically he was always a solid 1st or 2nd pick.

on another note i just thought about something. with how strong "early aggression junglers" were at worlds and this season. why wasn't there a whole lot of early aggression in the game? it was mostly just big team rotations for dragon towers. it got me thinking that the pro teams picked lee sin/kha'zix/elise to limit the enemy teams jungle options. like "they got one of the early game pressure champs. can't pick anything else or we'll get wrecked." any thoughts on that?

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

she shouldn't be a jack of all trades (or more like a master of nothing as this point) she should have a niche use that makes her strong in the thing she's good at. something that screams "spider queen" y'know?

nidaele jayce quinn gnar

basicaly any champion that switches stances in our game has no identity because rito went full retard while making them giving them 2 separate kits that excell at usualy oposite parts of the game human nida is all poke and sustain cougar is all inn and assasination cannnon jayce iss all poke hammer jayce is all in human elise is all poke spider elise is all in and gnar is the same

as far as their playstyles are split apart they will find no ballance

Zetra135 votes

I quite disagree with this. Nidalee needs some help on her overall power, but her play style is pretty much set up human then finish off cougar. An excellent concept, just needs the AP to be toned down. Jayce canbe a bit of a problem, so i agree with you there. Quinn is well balanced because the assassination is to go into fights fast and deal vicious damage as an assassin, plus it's long CD. Gnar is great because he makes you focus on when to attack and when to hold back. Only thing he needs is a way to control his rage. So over all, i find your comment false all around. The two stances thing with opposite strengths isn't really bad at all.

Raxistaicho1 votes

Well the thing is Nami's niche as far as supports go is she can do basically anything a support needs to do, but she doesn't excel at anything. It's what made her one of the most popular supports at Worlds this year. She can buff, debuff, heal, poke, engage, disengage, and so on, but she doesn't have Soraka's strength in healing, Janna's disengage, Zyra's poke or Thresh and Leona's engage, and so on. Often the advice I get when it comes to picking support is "if your team comp/adc hasn't been decided yet, go with Nami."

So why is it a bad thing to have a jungler like Elise who can do most of anything a Jungler needs to do without excelling at anything?

jade harley BARK4 votes

I can remember when I first bought her, everyone called her the queen of the jungle. I'd love to see her make a comeback.

Coradin4 votes

I used to main Elise, but after the season 4 nerfs I found it too hard to do enough early to compensate from being basically useless late. Sometimes I could snowball lanes, but gold on me was basically wasted because after level 12 or so she is garbage almost no matter how much gold she has.

One thing is: I disagree she has no weaknesses or strengths. She has one main weakness and one minor weakness. Her main weakness is she HAS to go into Melee range to get her full damage output, and her human form q is also short range. So although she scales off AP, she either has to build bruiser for survivability, or else she is a super risky assassin compared to other ap assassins. That is very distinctive about her kit, and it is a big contributor to how hard she falls off mid-late.

The minor weakness is that she only does single target damage, except her human form w, which is not very significant.

I think elise is VERY distinctive in terms of her kit. There is not a single other champion in the game that plays anything much like her. New nidalee is probably closest, because of the poke long range/ transform and dive for the kill, but even then Nidalee has no cc, way more reliable maneuverability, plus much longer range poke.

I think what has really sabotaged elise is really just poor balancing of her numbers in the light of her kit's structure. She had a huge early power spike, and that made her dominant in the jungle meta. Part of that power spike was her kit's structure, but that could have been compensated for with more careful balancing of her number scalings.

Here's how I would rework her: these are super easy changes because they are just numbers on her kit.

Role: Bruiser Play pattern: mid range poke/cc into Melee range all-in Strengths: hard cc, big gap closer, percent health damage Weaknesses: Melee range ap caster, high cool down on mobility

Changes: Aspect of the spider bonus magic damage on basic attacks in changed to 10/20/30/40 +0.5ap (increased from .3ap). New trait: bonus armor and Magic resist increased by 0/10%/20%/30% in spider form

Rationale: her early game power is ok after the nerfs, but her late game is too weak. This increases her scaling into late game via encouraging the most high-risk aspect of her gameplay -- auto attacking opponents in Melee range in spider form. Improved scaling for both her survivability and autoattacks damage compensates for the increased risk of being quickly busted down in the late game when she goes into Melee range.

Obviously the specific numbers might be over or under tuned, but that is I think where power can be added to her kit in a healthy way that reinforces her core gameplay pattern and keeps her weakness a real weakness.

Fisk1 votes

What if she got a passive like "Queen of the Swarm" that made her stronger depending on how many spiderlings she had down (eg 3.5/4/4.5/5% per spiderling alive and a 5/6/7/8% damage increase per spiderling). While those are completely made up numbers, the idea is that by being a "Queen" and having followers which is a big part of her character, she increases her own power. Also, what if her basic attack in spider form and her human form Q stacked something on the target that was consumed by her Q to deal bonus damage so that you could get burst damage, but it is less instant then before, requiring her to now actually build damage to do damage and giving her the appropriate risk of having to remain in spider form for long enough to get stacks when fighting a target.

Coradin2 votes

That passive adds power to her kit in a weird hidden way. It means she becomes hugely weaker if something kills off her spiderlings, but there is no compelling gameplay reason to make her work that way,

And adding damage to her autoattacks is a simpler and more elegant solution than a mark that gets consumed by a later spell cast.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Eh, I think the biggest thing was the change to Spirit of the Ancient Golem. How about we she how she fares in the new jungle before complaining.

Koechophe12 votes

That and the 6 successive nerfs...

Gorzke3 votes

She Hasn't much power problems. She suffers from being stupidly hard and punishing to play. Yesterday I was playing a game where I was 7-1 by mim 16. I ended losing because I couldn't land a cocoon in melee range ONE time.

They should make QoL buffs/changes (Ranges, Width. Mana, how spiderlings work, etc) before buffing her in raw numbers.

But yea. Although she can kill any ADC with 200 AP, she is in a bad position right now.

Ale non è male3 votes

Elise was overnerfed because she was overpowered, and not by little, she was basically the only main jungle pick alongside Lee(that has been hit too but not enough/in the wrogn aspects), and she was still widely picked because of her early game power and floexibility even when it became clear that her power was reduced a lot(even if her power was too low for competitive level and lately a lot of teams with her in jungle lost because of her being a completely non factor and games lasting a bit longer) Now she needs to gain a specific identity and relative buffs. Do they want her as health shredder(imho stupid) then buff Q. They want her as a pet champ then buff W o spiderlings stats . Do they want her as powerrful ganker - cocoon + rappel - then buff E And after that buff, just stop

Owatatsumi Kami3 votes

All I have to say is, why was Elise nerfed and Lee Sin left practically untouched. I like both the champions, but it seems they have the same general problem of being good at multiple things and liked by people for multiple reasons. I've heard a lot of people complain over the past year about Lee Sin not getting nerfed and shrugged it off. But when comparing Lee Sin to Elise, especially now that a whole season has ended, I have to ask, why was one nerfed and not the other when they are so similar in the problems they cause, their general strengths, and reason for rework delay?

chumbler5 votes

All I have to say is, why was Elise nerfed and Lee Sin left practically untouched. I like both the champions, but it seems they have the same general problem of being good at multiple things and liked by people for multiple reasons. I've heard a lot of people complain over the past year about Lee Sin not getting nerfed and shrugged it off. But when comparing Lee Sin to Elise, especially now that a whole season has ended, I have to ask, why was one nerfed and not the other when they are so similar in the problems they cause, their general strengths, and reason for rework delay?

Lee Sin is Riot's golden boy. That's why he doesn't get touched.

Owatatsumi Kami2 votes

lol, see? These are the types of comments I just shrugged off. xD

Coradin2 votes

I think that perception is a bit misleading for Elise, at least. She does have flexibility in her kit, but she also has both strengths and weaknesses and distinctive gameplay.

She was so dominant in the competitive meta because what she brought as a jungler was useful for every team composition: Awesome early ganks, the best early dueling potential, the best objective control (pre-nerfs), fast sustained jungle clear, and long-range hard cc. Her weaknesses (terrible scaling, short range for a caster, single target damage, long-cooldown conditional mobility) just aren't as relevant when her strengths are exactly what Junglers needed in the meta. She just brought everything that mattered in the jungle to the table. But that doesnt mean she can do everything well: it means she could do eveything a jungler needs to do well, which is why she was OP in competitive.

Owatatsumi Kami1 votes

You've made some great points and by no means do I argue with them. Both Elise and Lee Sin have weaknesses, primarily there fall off late game. Just to clarify, are you saying Lee Sin has less weaknesses than Elsie? Because all I was saying is that they were similar especially in strengths for the jungle and had a lot of the same problems when looking at helping them get to a healthy level. Or perhaps that Elise, depending on the meta would be a healthy champion, while Lee Sin wouldn't still?

Coradin5 votes

I think Lee Sin probably has fewer weaknesses than Elise overall. I think there is much more of a case to be made that Lee's kit is too much of everything. Tons of mobility, sustain, control, and early damage. And mobility is one of those things that is really powerful and flexible: Elise's mobility is WAY more restricted than Lee's. Lee is probably more viable as a laner than Elise is, which suggests his weaknesses are less.

But the reason Lee and Elise were dominant in competitive is because they they had no weaknesses at the things junglers needed to be good at. That doesn't mean they had no weaknesses in their kits at all. It's just that whatever weaknesses are there weren't relevant to competitive jungle play, and their strengths included EVERYTHING that a jungler needed.

There are sort of two issues here. One is the question of whether the gameplay of a champion is distinctive, interesting, and has definable strengths and weaknesses. I think Elise meets all of those criteria, and Lee Sin is at least distinctive and interesting in terms of his gameplay. I think that 'scales badly' is not a very good weakness, because it leads to times when the game is not fun for at least one of the players. So I think it would be good to tune both Elise and Lee Sin so that they are weaker early and don't fall off as hard, and honestly I believe this can be done for both with just number tweaks. For lee sin, you just lower the base damages and increase the scaling, it's not hard.

Now that still leaves the issue that Lee Sin at any given point can do tons of different things and has no identifiable weakness based on his kit. This is a fair concern. I think his weakness should be that he doesn't do much damage. If you have a champion with huge mobility, all other things being equal they should be super squishy or else do low damage.

The other issue is whether the specific strengths and weaknesses of a champion are meaningful in the context of the meta -- this is a balance concern which is much bigger picture. Elise was a problem in the jungle because her spiders gave her sustain, her percent damage gave her objective control, rappel plus cocoon gave her crazy early ganks, and spiderlings plus cocoon plus ranged attacks plus execute damage made her a crazy early duelist. Those are all pretty built into her kit, so to nerf her enough that she doesn't dominate other junglers in the season 4 competitive meta is tough. Now, ideally in the season 5 meta there will be more variety in what is needed in the jungle, and Elise can hopefully be buffed in her late game. But if not, maybe her kit needs to be tweaked for balance reasons.

Raxistaicho1 votes

All I have to say is, why was Elise nerfed and Lee Sin left practically untouched. I like both the champions, but it seems they have the same general problem of being good at multiple things and liked by people for multiple reasons. I've heard a lot of people complain over the past year about Lee Sin not getting nerfed and shrugged it off. But when comparing Lee Sin to Elise, especially now that a whole season has ended, I have to ask, why was one nerfed and not the other when they are so similar in the problems they cause, their general strengths, and reason for rework delay?

Because of two things:

1: Every time they try to nerf Lee Sin the fans get pissy and Riot folds to their pressure. 2: According to them, Lee Sin has no weaknesses (they outright have admitted this themselves) and they prefer to nerf by emphasizing weaknesses.

Yes, it's *exactly *as pathetic as it sounds.

Letsgetcooking3 votes

I do agree Elise was overnerfed, but i'm kind of okay with it because most of the time, i play games with a friend of mine who is absolutely terrified of spiders, even virtual ones. So whenever he sees her he just goes batshit nuts and can't even engage properly. I'm fine with Elise not being played just because of that fact since he really can't do much when dealing with her.

Here's a little quote from a while ago: discussion from skype.

"She's not there, if she?" "I dunno but if she attacks, i'm Braum and you're Yi. We can easily kill her." Battle with Elise happens(the Elise was really dumb), we win. "See? Not a big deal." "I wasn't looking." "?" "I just right-clicked her, took off my headphones and didnt watch for five seconds." "..."

metaworldpeace103 votes

Elise was overnerfed. I agree 100% with that. The only issue I have is that she was nerfed due to the outcry of the community. Everytime an Elise nerf came through, the community responded with "Elise is still top tier jungler lololol" and Riot kept nerfing until the community stopped complaining. Now, Elise as a champion, is outclassed by many many junglers and we wonder why she was "overnerfed" With the new pre-season changes in place, it would be nice to see where she's at from a power perspective and help her out depending on what she needs,

BrickcityBryant3 votes

I personally hated the elise spam and am glad it's gone.

Raxistaicho3 votes

I personally hated the elise spam and am glad it's gone.

So how do you like that Lee Sin spam?

Bondage Bunnyboy2 votes

I'm all for some Elise qol changes, outright buffs I'm not sure about. I stopped playing her because there's always a fricken Lee Sin who does everything better than her or a Yi who outscales her so hard if she isn't able to cocoon him as he goes in. Plus she's incredibly frustrating to play with how punishing any little mistake can be, especially if it involves her E bug...

Junkο2 votes

Cassiopeia Evelynn Shaco Zyra

Vesper1172 votes

But random buffing wouldn't really help. Elise suffers from a common issue of identity crisis. She is baseline good at everything, and therefore lacks any real weaknesses.

Isn't that Lee Sin's issue, only he's actually immune to nerfs?

Watch92 votes

They are blind.

Sonny19982 votes

I agree!!!

ethanaidan12 votes

a

P0IS0N IVY2 votes

I played Elise in the jungle every since she was released, but the last two rounds of nerfs just did if for me. I feel like I can't contribute to the game, early or late anymore and it's extremely disappointing. If Riot wants to fix her, I think they need to better define her as a champion.

Risotadazo2 votes

Came to disagree with the title, stayed to agree with the post.

Great job.

Jivvie2 votes

Fell in love with her RIGHT after her nerf. Tried mastering. Lost many games. Kept trying. Then I finally read the patch notes. She was nerfed to hell. To this day I think I have won like ONE game with her. Maybe 2. She is really bad right now. After mid game you can kiss that win goodbye.

junglerboy162 votes

She was ridiculously overpowered when I started playing just over a year ago, but I agree that they didn't handle her well. Instead of blindly beating her to death with the nerf bat, they should have done a focused small scale rework to target her identity as a character, and then implemented changes to reinforce her identity. Her lore plays her up as the leader of a fanatic cult that she tricks into following her to the shadow isles to appease Vilemaw, yet NOTHING in her kit has anything to do with this key factor in her identity; it stops at "she is a spider lady who does spider things" and that is the depth and breadth of all character her kit really has. She basically got the Kayle/Irelia treatment "we can't really spend the time to make a solid champion identity, so we'll just put in some of everything and hope it works" and so she got the follow up nerf treatment to make her less overpowered.

MidEvilKnight3k1 votes

Elise does have a weakness, she has no AOE damage or CC except for the small spider that chases people. Of course having AOE is not important in the early game, and most high elo games people don't clump together for AOE damage. As a result Elise being balanced around not having AOE made her very strong in high elo. Hence the nerfs, even though she was balanced for most people.

The Mormonator1 votes

That's why you see item 3116 In her builds so that she has a little cc and I wouldn't call her AOE small...Also the 2 second stun on her e.

MidEvilKnight3k1 votes

I meant no AOE cc, I know that cocoon is strong, especially for ganking. It just is not as strong as some other abilities in a teamfight. In high elo, fights take a while to break out because the losing team is avoiding it without a clear advantage. If you catch someone out of position with something like cocoon, however, then you can engage. In low elo most teams just go ham on eachother, so the value of cocoon is less.

The Mormonator1 votes

That's still a good reason to get the item 3116 because a slow applies to her w. That's the best I can do.

Old Man Teeto1 votes

I see her as the AP jungle Lee Sin.

Extremely strong and oppressive in early/mid game.

Utility late game.

Stopped seeing her as much due to the jungle items being changed to not be favorable towards her.

The tank one requires her to get hit for the sustain and damage, spiderlings are meant to tank for her, making this counterintuitive, also the tank one means she doesn't get the % bonus to help her clear. The AP one leaves her squishy and defeats her purpose of early game dominance.

She was dropped mainly for those reasons. If you go back to the time of these changes, many LCS teams were still picking and playing her trying one of the two builds. Her kit is perfectly strong, just her jungle itemization was destroyed.

Koechophe2 votes

Uh, no, she was mainly dropped because she was nerfed over and over and over again. That's when she was dropped from the roster, not when the jungle was changed. If you read those nerfs all the way through, you'll see that they're all more significant than anything that happened with itemization. Her kit at the moment is NOT perfectly strong, it's been nerfed so much that she's basically a high risk low reward champion.

Raxistaicho1 votes

You make a good point, but I don't think Riot will listen. They still think Elise is a thing.

CatSith1 votes

I Couldn't agree with you more :3

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