Grasp is the only viable keystone remaining to juggernauts

Ahristocats·Nov 11, 2016·37 votes·2,756 views

Hear me out riot, storm raider sucks cocks on any juggernaut

all their damage are deleyed, no one can proc it beside Darius with his ulti. Q is delayed, W is damage/seconds, R deals most of its damage over 10 seconds. How do you expect to use stormraider kappa while being miles away the adc? hitting the tank and doing no damage? same with

now that you understood that, can you please buff grasp so we don't get a shitty keystone that doesn't let us use the 15% tenacity of the 3rd tree?

Like: ~~%hp damage changed to 1/1.5/2/2.5% increased at lvl 6/11/16 ~~ if it ends up again broken, then just put a 6 seconds cooldown or something.

thanks

66 Comments

Blue Collar BearNov 11, 201610 votes

I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

Most Juggernauts can use the new Fervor to great advantage. They're all AD casters that don't die easily. They want to be in a fight for a long time, so it really scales up. Since most of these champions tend to build one to three damage items that really makes their burst crazy, Stormraider's is a great keystone for them. I remember in KR it was the #1 most picked keystone on Illaoi and Darius with it being the #2 / #3 in NA.

dapositivevikingNov 11, 20161 votes

darius has to love battle trance and fervor

Critmaster GarenNov 11, 20168 votes

i think the "viable" part is debatable.

we probably need a new keystrone for juggs altogether. ive never been a fan of putting a damage mastery into the resolve tree. and its clear that riot isnt buffing the sustain portion, because theyre afraid tanks will use it against each other in lane to out sustain each others damage.

would be nice to get a keystone that isnt as dependent on auto attacks.

Big LincolnNov 11, 20162 votes

yeah but what would you even add for juggernauts that doesn't get abused by other classes again?

Critmaster GarenNov 11, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4opEybsA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-11-11T16:43:50.599+0000)

yeah but what would you even add for juggernauts that doesn't get abused by other classes again?

i mean how about just keeping strength of the ages and making it scale with level?

otherwise i wouldnt mind a mastery that grants % damage reduction the more enemies are nearby or the more enemies have dealt damage to you within a couple of seconds. juggs want to get into the middle of it anyways.

Photos of GhostsNov 11, 20161 votes

Movespeed scaling with damage taken in the last 6 seconds?

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 12, 20161 votes

I don't see whats wrong with grasp tbh

Critmaster GarenNov 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4opEybsA,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2016-11-12T03:46:33.085+0000)

I don't see whats wrong with grasp tbh

if you want on hit damage, go fervor. youre not gated by a 4 second cooldown, and you get multiples of the damage out of it, even after the change to ad. its also not reduced by mr on a champion who buys absolutely 0 magic pen.

if you want on hit sustain, you can go warlord for the same reason.

grasp treads on the same nieche as both keystones. but even with the mix of (laughable) sustain and a little bit of damage it cant compare to either.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 12, 20162 votes

it seems better for winning short trades in lane to me

Big LincolnNov 11, 20167 votes

isn't that a nerf? looking at grasp tooltip right now, it says you deal 3% of your max HP as magic damage.

unless you meant the heal to scale up, in which case I agree.

AhristocatsNov 11, 20161 votes

for real? i thought they nerfed it to 1.5%

Big LincolnNov 11, 201613 votes

the self-heal is 1.5% of your max hp

but you do 3% of your health as damage

AhristocatsNov 11, 20161 votes

as magic damage, they should make it physical damage.

Big LincolnNov 11, 201615 votes

i like it as mixed damage, makes it more effective when they build armor vs you

NechroniaNov 11, 20161 votes

As Morde cries for his lack of both mixed damage and an ap black cleaver

junglerboy16Nov 12, 20162 votes

RIP Abyssal rework...

ArximandrithsNov 11, 20166 votes

I like it as true damage xD

StrawberrycocoaNov 11, 20161 votes

Noooooooo, they should keep it magical, because resistance tends to be lower and harder to stack than Armor.

That or they chould make it damage for whichever of the two is lower, but that seems unreliable.

It Hertz When IPNov 11, 20161 votes

Technically it'd be unreliable, but in practice it would either hit exactly as hard as you expect or harder. I'm not seeing the problem.

legionnaire99Nov 11, 20164 votes

You don't play juggernauts do you? Storm raider is a dream on garen dairus mord nasus. Skate should use the new one that give a shield Illioa uses deathfire

MunchCrunchLunchNov 11, 20161 votes

why not the new mastery on darius. his E procs it. i will personally use it its very strong in lane.

legionnaire99Nov 11, 20161 votes

I mean sure it works but stromraiders keeps you in range to get the last auto for your passive (ps it made the range fight so easy vs Quinn vayne with the speed

ReZisT LustNov 11, 20161 votes

if they dont go stormraiders vs a darius thats pretty bad move lol

Big LincolnNov 11, 20162 votes

stormraider's is cheese.

on any of these champions, if you ever get to proc it later in the game they were already dead. it's pretty much just a "win-more" option for these guys. it doesn't do anything for you if you're getting kited hard; grasp at least will let you hit the tank that's peeling you to stay alive, not to mention free extra damage is never bad.

Great OzymandiusNov 11, 20161 votes

Also nasus doesn't build ad or ap so he doesn't get scaling from stormraiders.

OdinakosNov 11, 20163 votes

Pssst, we are talking about the speedy mastery not the 3 hit proc one you silly :)

OdinakosNov 11, 20161 votes

It helps you stay in range after they peel you. Also there are assasins that are very easy to proc on. Supports also have good window of opportunity to proc on. A tiny amount of damage and heal is nothing compared to sticking to the target after you finaly get there. If nulifies a lot of peeling that would deny you damage otherwise.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 12, 20161 votes

Stormraider is core for morde actually.

The FastNov 11, 20161 votes

Not anymore. Ferver on Illaoi is her new Keystone. Its INSANE what she does with it.

legionnaire99Nov 12, 20161 votes

I have yet to try that never crossed my mind will try

FireDrizzleNov 12, 20162 votes

If they made grasp do true damage(low amount obviously) it could be buffed without tanks sustaining too much from each other toplane I think.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7BfbNETwbJc/hqdefault.jpg

I've been taking warlords on Yorick happily but I'm envious of champs who can utilise courage of the collosus. Some champs with hard cc might not like courage, such as cho who can waste it q'ing someone from a distance.

Wînter FoxNov 11, 20161 votes

Why are you even mentioning Stormraider's when referring to Juggernauts? That's like saying "Support keystones suck Riot, Fervor of Battle is so useless on us" Uh...wut
They just released Courage of the Colossus in the Resolve tree. It's tailor made for juggernauts and is so absurdly strong it's probably the best keystone period.
Idk wtf is anymore but he's not a Juggernaut

AnonagonNov 11, 20167 votes

Juggernauts don't have the hard CC to trigger Courage

Stormraider's is relevant because it's been a okay to strong choice on Darius, Nasus, and Illaoi

Morde is very definitively a juggernaut

ShaolinToiletNov 12, 20161 votes

Who cares about mordekaiser

AnonagonNov 12, 20165 votes

boy i replied to brought it up, don't come knockin at me saying "who cares about morde" cause obviously that dude cares about morde ya moron

EcchiOtakuTMNov 12, 20161 votes

Darius/Skarner do. And extremely reliable at that.

Death by GlamourNov 12, 20161 votes

Isn't garens silence considered a hard cc?

Starter has a few

And darius e?

The Sword SaintNov 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4opEybsA,comment-id=000500000003,timestamp=2016-11-12T14:00:49.515+0000)

Isn't garens silence considered a hard cc?

Starter has a few

And darius e?

Silence is not hard cc.

Great OzymandiusNov 11, 20161 votes

Some juggernauts love CotC (like Shyvanna), but other's can't even proc it (like garen, nasus).

OdinakosNov 11, 20161 votes

Isnt ironic that one of the best anti adc cc is not considered hard cc? :O

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 12, 20161 votes

not really

Great OzymandiusNov 11, 20161 votes

nasus hates all the keystones. I end up taking surge, but that's only moderately useful and only when you get on the enemy adc in late game fights.

Shyvanna really likes colossus though. When you ult onto enemy champions you get a huge shield. This means you can build damage, ult onto a target and be tanky for just long enough to get a kill (or several). You can also bait really well with it. You are low health and someone is chasing you? Ult back onto them, and now you have 14% of max health shield, which is often enough to turn a close fight.

Critmaster GarenNov 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4opEybsA,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-11-11T19:02:14.510+0000)

nasus hates all the keystones. I end up taking surge, but that's only moderately useful and only when you get on the enemy adc in late game fights.

Shyvanna really likes colossus though. When you ult onto enemy champions you get a huge shield. This means you can build damage, ult onto a target and be tanky for just long enough to get a kill (or several). You can also bait really well with it. You are low health and someone is chasing you? Ult back onto them, and now you have 14% of max health shield, which is often enough to turn a close fight.

with nasus you could consider warlord if you dont like stormraider.

SnugglePuggle94Nov 12, 20161 votes

I'm just wondering how that is possible as her ult isn't a form of CC, and the mastery says the shield is only given if you hit a enemy with hard CC. Is her knock back considered "hard" CC? I thought hard was stuns or roots.

VoidStaresBackNov 12, 20161 votes

All displacement affects are hard CC and have a stun attached to them that lasts for the duration of the displacement.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 12, 20161 votes

Why you lying darius can get better results with courage since by the time the shield dies he has 5 stacks to go to town with. <3

Skarner actually thrives with courage surprisingly. Tbh I think as long as you have a CC akill courage is the way to go if you build some tanky items(even potentially elise).

On a serious note there's nothing wrong with grasp on them but why wouldn't you take storm on morde? Ulti-> gap close for that 3rd Q or if follish to trade you punish them with 3rd Q cause huge stickiness. It's far better to help morde actually flow.

VerdadeNov 12, 20161 votes

DFT on Morde. Level 6 QER Ignite is 100% kill on any meta midlaner

EcchiOtakuTMNov 12, 20161 votes

Still won't have as much impact as stormraiders which allows consistent 3rd Q and can double as an escape. It's the main keystone he uses.

SpoofghoulNov 12, 20161 votes

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SpoofghoulNov 12, 20161 votes

Ok well there is still fervor & thunderlords which work on most of em

but darius can make use of grasp thunderlord stormraiders colossus fervor

In all seriousness why would you want to take an 18 resolve tree, it's better to go 18 ferocity 12 resolve on most juggernauts, garen is probably the exception because he is a bit more bursty so thunderlords is best

But the rest of them focus on extended fights so fervor should be good as well as that new mastery which increases damage by 5% over 5 seconds battle trance

Let's not forget the resolve tree is weird because the scaling masteries are put at the start of the tree like unyielding and runic armor and fearless/perseverance

And swiftness would be the main reason for me to go full resolve tree on most juggernauts because it helps vs cc and makes you more difficult to kite