So Yorick get hammer nerf but Daruis, Fiora, Pyke, etc get buffs ? Love world balance

ValiantKiller··56 votes·28,602 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/09/918-pbe-update-tentative-balance-changes.html Legit i'm done of this stupid game and that balance team that seek only the balance around the pros who looks like they not that pro cause they need buffs/nerfs to be able to make amazing plays.

And i bet you that stupid buffs to Fiora and Darius cause Urgot showing off in top lane ,but ofcourse we won't nerf urgot so it doesn't show clearly that we don't like new picks into world so we will just buff 2 toxic champions and one of them already got buffed from few patch Fiora while other already decent counter to urgot just need abit of buffs.

Even the stupid Pyke that is toxic in my eyes due to his easy to spam ult going to get buffed early on his R for more easy flashy kills, so let us destroy Yorick by direct nerfs and push the two toxic champions power up Darius and Fiora

127 Comments

ModWulf Helhammer44 votes

Fiora has a 46% win rate.

Weiner the Pooh26 votes

And Yoricks is 51-52% and was higher when he was nerfed, bunch of people thinking hes weak somehow tho.

Mordepool12 votes

Not weak. Just don't see why they rush to nerf him. Like shit graves has been dominant in the jungle for 2 seasons. Never really Falling out of meta.
But yeah fuck Yorick after 5 patches of being the best Toplaner

RiotRiot MapleNectar37 votes

We nerfed him since he was 58% winrate up until around silver MMR. We typically focus explicitly on plat+, but there are certain bounds at which we take action for lower level play as well. Doesn't make it easy, or feel good, Internal metrics still have him around 54 in low MMR, and around 53 high MMR. I'll need to double check those metrics though, since the post below this from ShirukuSama has him sitting at 47% according to lolalytics which is a pretty big discrepancy between what you guys are seeing and what we were looking at. Makes for a painful perception mismatch for sure. For context usually the delta is closer to ~1-2% between external sites and our own dashboards

Smartness Immune6 votes

The problem is that he's pretty bad rn. As a Yorcik Main this buffs destroyed him. After all , why don't you buff him as you nerfed Ryze? It's the same thing after all. Ryze was too op in Worlds/Plat+ , while Yorick it's to opposite. Hell, i'll just play Pyke top, and 1v5 the enemy team by executing them, if i'm not allowed to splitpush.

Z3Sleeper7 votes

As another Yorick main I honestly can't feel the nerfs. The numbers and statistics are there (a whopping 48 damage loss at level 6) but in practice it still feels more or less the same.

CHEWYARMS7 votes

What???? Completely disagree

I think your forgetting that its 48 damage lost every round of autos the ghouls do.

Which means a fuck ton of damage lost over longer trades and all ins.

Just think about how much damage you lose when you wall someone after using E. It's insane, especially considering the build up to execute this combo.

I used to be able to beat Darius lvl 4 no problem if I landed my shit.

Now he stands inside my wall laughing as he gets his 5 stacks for free and deletes me because I don't have the DPS to take him down before that anymore.

Z3Sleeper4 votes

Just my opinion. Really not feeling it. I'm continuing to perform the same as before. Feels like nothing changed.

Zedex3 votes

Those are usually the best types of balance changes. Theres obviously been some power shifts but if the champion still feels the same to play as/against, I think the changes succeeded.

Zedex3 votes

Please play Pyke top to "prove" your point. You'll end up doing even worse and realizing what a jack ass you are.

Fízz v25 votes

I wish there was a way around this, win rate differences as big as 3% or more between lolalytics and u.gg for example makes it kinda hard to discuss stuff

Mordepool21 votes

This reminds me of the " Sejuani has had her time in the spotlight" Qoute from a few years back.

It seems like there is definite favouritism. When you nerf every melee champ that's doing well.

Like shit this might have been Yorick only chance at a Challenger skin. If not for the excluded because last year's was a Toplaner.

Just getting tired of seeing the same old shit. Vayne buffs every world's.

You really need to get your priorities straightened out

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

This reminds me of the " Sejuani has had her time in the spotlight" Qoute from a few years back.

How? There is literally nothing in what he says that reference anything back to the old Sejuani quote.

Mordepool4 votes

Reminds me of the situation surrounding that qoute

Divinedpk4 votes

{quoted}

This reminds me of the " Sejuani has had her time in the spotlight" Qoute from a few years back.

It seems like there is definite favouritism. When you nerf every melee champ that's doing well.

Like shit this might have been Yorick only chance at a Challenger skin. If not for the excluded because last year's was a Toplaner.

Just getting tired of seeing the same old shit. Vayne buffs every world's.

You really need to get your priorities straightened out

Why would a champion with the second lowest pickrate in top lane and not nearly as many competitive showings as literally dozens of champions get a Challenger skin?

NemeBro8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4k0n8Z2F,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-19T03:34:38.542+0000)

We nerfed him since he was 58% winrate up until around silver MMR. We typically focus explicitly on plat+, but there are certain bounds at which we take action for lower level play as well. Doesn't make it easy, or feel good, Internal metrics still have him around 54 in low MMR, and around 53 high MMR. I'll need to double check those metrics though, since the post below this from ShirukuSama has him sitting at 47% according to lolalytics which is a pretty big discrepancy between what you guys are seeing and what we were looking at. Makes for a painful perception mismatch for sure. For context usually the delta is closer to ~1-2% between external sites and our own dashboards

Sounds like you should make your own data public huh?

Slythion4 votes

If they were to do that, balance team abuse and player meta enforcement would likely noticeably rise. There's not much incentive for Riot to publicize their data

As much as it sucks, the playerbase's balance priorities and balance team's priorities differ. The difference increases greatly if you remember that we only really hear about the outspoken mains/biased individuals who totally have fair and just balance ideals :^)

3TWarrior4 votes

I'm a bit confused on this but without accurate data, it's hard to say

Yorick is a champion specifically focused around taking objectives and can only have a decent team fight if his ultimate is up

58% winrate in bronze is a little excessive, it's even excessive in silver, but wouldn't it be more effective to figure out what caused his sudden win-rate spike and deal with that? Every time an item or mastery/rune causes an imbalance in the game, it then becomes a must-have for the champion if the champion is changed

Infernape9 votes

I find it odd that Riot nerfs Yorick because of low elo, then buffs another low elo pubstomper (yi) in the very same patch.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

Yi probably didn't have a 58% winrate in low elo

Sohleks9 votes

Ughhhhh. I don't like winrate balancing....

" Oh no, it's 3 percent above tolerance levels! I know it's not gonna be a popular move, and will cause pain point over there but now we have to act."

Sorry for the grouch-a-phrase. But. I am curious about this though.

You said his winrate was very high up to around silver (so presumably starting from bronze), did even the players you were addressing the pain point for Want Yorick nerfed? Like, if you were to randomly poll a large sample of those players in all the regions before the changes would you have gotten a majority that said " Yes, Yorick is overpowered." or more importantly " Yeah, Yorick should be nerfed."

I mean I will concede this point if such data were to say that those players said they wanted him nerfed or if on these boards actual non-smurf players of the skill ranges in question who recently played games with Yorick agreed bellow (feel free to speak up boards!). Even if (or especially because?) them being players that read the boards would make them a small subset of players with their opinions influenced by the boards (whooaa!). ( And I'm not even saying you need to collect that data)

Don't play the, well Yorick wasn't popular enough to cause major influence to those player's opinions. If that's the case then was it actually necessary to take action yet then?

Another Yorick thing I had been annoyed about at some point. When his rework came out I saw an early Riot quote stating they did not believe philosophically pet micromanagement was a fit in League. So you're just choosing not to offer that. For even one champion? You're basically deciding for your players that that's not a fun way for a someone to play the game. On an unpopular champion. And. It'd be a tougher sell on a brand new champion maybe (or maybe not, maybe it's just more difficult to convince your marketing department that). I mean. Okay. It could be annoying.

I mean. Maybe it is right. But idk.

But it's just so hugely disappointing for me because his ult creature is really cool (and could be even cooler mechanically). But the AI is sooooooo dumb and limited. Hardly effective against competent players. Only contributes if you manage to pin them. And in this age that's just instant death anyways. I just instantly knew this champion's fate when I read that. And his wall. That you can destroy cool. Interesting. Fine. Not a breeze to aim (approve actually. skill) But there is this thing called Trundle pillar in the game. Like. Huge range (at the time?) No aim required. Indestructable. Absurd slowing. Also has an ultimate with basically no counterplay. Oh no! He compared the abilities in separate kits. That's blasphemous. Come on though. You can so long as you're intelligent about it. How do you expect someone to balance and create all this game then. You don't? Anyways. Like. Is there any wonder why Trundle kept surfacing in competitive matches. Counterplay issues. Yorick's the opposite.

But yeah. In my opinion since Yorick seems to have a really effective skill floor maybe the micro bad and no fun philosophy should be reconsidered.

I confess though. I'm sure Yorick's nerf wasn't too significant. I don't even keep track anymore.


I almost went on another Tangent you probably wouldn't want to read. But the sum of another thought. I think maybe it's time to consider the cow isn't sacred anymore and try major changes to like summoner's rift. The puzzle feels solved. It's no longer a puzzle anymore. It's a test who can perform the solve faster (but in the case of the game better usually min maxing unfairness). I guess it's pretty risky though. Maybe a graphic update again at least. You have just a few maps.

Or at least bring dominion back. And try cross server matchmaking to keep smaller modes alive (I know the tech guys maybe shake their head grinning at such an idea). I know it will be a trade off of lag. Worth it for less serious modes imo. Maybe cross server potential might have other unexpected benefits.

woodvsmurph4 votes

Yorick is/was strong, but if you played properly vs him and knew when to back off he was totally beatable at most phases of the game 1v1. If any nerf should have gone through to help lower elo players, it would be making his mistwalkers have a hit box that doesn't make them untargetable in a large minion wave. This would allow players to not have to run out of the enemy minion wave in order to stand a chance of fighting yorick when he has mistwalkers.

Fizzletop1 votes

This guys gets it.

Also, give the lower ELO players a chance to learn counter play. Like there is plenty of counter play to his kit as it was but, a lot of players never even try to counter play him. (like seriously, I played a ton of yorick for a few weeks just last month. A lot of players didnt even try to counter play with graves and ghouls and would just run at me. the players who did counter play the champ pretty easily shut down Yorick, so easy it made me feel bad... So I stopped playing him. Now with the nerf ill probably stay away from him for a while.

BLIGHTBRINGER6 votes

So the balance team is going to ignore other champions who are exceeding 50% winrate with pickrates as high as 15%.

There are champions who still need to be nerfed... Nami Graves Jhin Jinx Lucian

All of these champions are heavily picked and have too much success.

ValiantKiller3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4k0n8Z2F,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-19T03:34:38.542+0000)

We nerfed him since he was 58% winrate up until around silver MMR. We typically focus explicitly on plat+, but there are certain bounds at which we take action for lower level play as well. Doesn't make it easy, or feel good, Internal metrics still have him around 54 in low MMR, and around 53 high MMR. I'll need to double check those metrics though, since the post below this from ShirukuSama has him sitting at 47% according to lolalytics which is a pretty big discrepancy between what you guys are seeing and what we were looking at. Makes for a painful perception mismatch for sure. For context usually the delta is closer to ~1-2% between external sites and our own dashboards

I bet you after buffing more top lanera like daruis and fiora, yorick will goes to bottom tier since fiora counter him already and most yorick success in low elo come from the fact that he among few melee champions able to deal with daruis but if darius got buffed it done for him

Unstoppable Monk3 votes

Guess low pick rate champion people shouldn't coach low elo anymore or they'll get their champion nerfed And people in higher elos were practicing Yorick on smurfs. And that the top meta was countered by him in the VS event + aftermath that you guys released in the first place. But whatever the people who play LoL like CoD end up losing to a champion played like their in a MOBA obviously are people to balance the game on especially if the stars align.

You're making balancing decisions on players that run Garen and Darius VS event skins against someone that knows what they're doing in a very favorable matchup and that is dumb. Gutting a champion without knowing the reasons for its outlier performance is silly.

Tik1152 votes

Ok that's fine and all

But what about Sion? Why does Yorick gets nerfed quickly just because his win rate is high on the super low MMR's meanwhile Sion gets to rock a 52-53% win rate on all ranks?

rtbf2256182413 votes

Why don't you guys just have these stats up on your own stats page or something? Like up-to-date win-rates and pick-rates, together with most popular builds and so on?

This secrecy isn't helping anyone tbh, as it only gives you something to correct us with.

rtbf2216514122 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4k0n8Z2F,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-19T03:34:38.542+0000)

We nerfed him since he was 58% winrate up until around silver MMR.

Where all the newbies get placed for placements anyway.

Luminier4 votes

Can you guys please re-evaluate the Yorick nerfs and reassess where he really needs to be nerfed? Maybe his raw damage didn't need a nerf. That doesn't just hurt him in low elo, it hurts him all across the board.

Ghouls are frustrating to play against due to their ridiculously small hitboxes. Start there. I guarantee at least in lower elos that a good chunk of lane deaths vs Yorick is because of the fact that it's very hard to target the ghouls.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Hey I was wondering how internally your system evaluates Janna. She is doing fine on every stats website yet you guys believe she needs buffs. So what does your data tell you about her?

ShirukuSama8 votes

He IS weak in high ELO. Currently, he has ≈47 % win rate in diamond and plat. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/champion/Yorick/

The nerf was supposed to hit him in low ELO, but it had no effect at all. Yorick's win rate in bronze is still >54%. So they gutted Yorick where ppl actually know how to play.

CHEWYARMS3 votes

Lol he is weak.

Play him. You'll notice you do absolutely nothing on your own till you acquire the most expensive item in the game.

Spend 30+ secs getting harrassed for free while farming graves then landing 2 skills shots only for your ghouls to deal like 50 damage lol.

Meanwhile, get caught by a full Darius combo and your dead.

Lots of fun.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

Lol he is weak.

Play him. You'll notice you do absolutely nothing on your own till you acquire the most expensive item in the game.

Spend 30+ secs getting harrassed for free while farming graves then landing 2 skills shots only for your ghouls to deal like 50 damage lol.

Meanwhile, get caught by a full Darius combo and your dead.

Lots of fun.

Welcome to balance team yet Jax and tryn as toxic top laners that strong in every phase of game ants able to split like Yorick left alone or getting buffed

DKM Bismarck1 votes

Tryndamere sucks ass. Jax needs a nerf, yes. Yorick probably needs a buff, but pointing out other split pushers being more successful than him, of one which is weaker btw, doesn't really strengthen your point.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade Or Soul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4k0n8Z2F,comment-id=00000000000200000000,timestamp=2018-09-19T23:41:41.552+0000)

Tryndamere sucks ass. Jax needs a nerf, yes. Yorick probably needs a buff, but pointing out other split pushers being more successful than him, of one which is weaker btw, doesn't really strengthen your point.

Did you get what i pointing out here ? I pointing out that both of Jax and Tryndamere doing the same job as him in low elo yet that is fine by game balance?

DKM Bismarck2 votes

I don't think either were performing quite as well as he was because low elos can't click on mistwalkers at all, whilst those two have a pattern you can't really miss.

The best thing Riot could've done for low elos would've been making mistwalkers easier to click on but noooooooooo they had to gut him for higher elos, whilst he still remains a problem in low elo.

woodvsmurph2 votes

And perhaps much of that is due to a very greedy and overly squishy build being punished properly by bursty junglers and toplaners rather than an innate problem with the champion. Like a kassadin rushing tear vs a talon.... if kass ends up feeding he kinda deserves it. If fiora's full ad and messes up her riposte or simply plays too agro vs a strong early game champ (who should be as impossible for her to beat early - at her weakest - as it is for an early game champ to beat her late game - at her strongest) and dies... she deserves to lose the fight. She SHOULD fall behind even if she plays equal to her opponent at that point because the other guy is SUPPOSED to be stronger and abusing her. That's the only way the other guy's champ stays competitive as you scale further into the game... of they lead they build through PROPERLY PLAYING a lane bully.

Furthermore... we're in an early game meta for much of the split. Which favors champs that are SUPPOSED to be strong early. Fiora IS strong early... but she SHOULDN'T be nearly as strong in early lane as she already is. She should be playing much more like a nasus early... hugging tower, looking to outscale. She shouldn't be ABLE to duel strong early game champs in the early game unless the person playing her is hella smurfing/outplaying... multiple times.

I cannot understand how people have no concept of scaling... a power trough... and that lane bullies SHOULD bully the lane - ESPECIALLY vs a scaling champ. You see it with fiora. You saw it in the past with leona being nerfed cuz... too much burst in early lane and can abuse enemy bot duo's who pick a squishy enchanter or mage support. Uh... that's exactly what she was intended to do. They shouldn't be stepping up in lane expecting to trade as equals early if they can't dodge her engage. Saying they should be would be the same as a leona saying she should be as strong as a sona or lulu late game... which isn't even close to true. Power curves... they exist... people need to respect them. People need to understand that the "net power curve" of a champ should be BALANCED compared to other champs. Getting back to leona. She was nerfed when her entire power advantage lies in gaining an advantage in lane... which requires her to take major risks compared to pretty much every other support. Meanwhile at the time, we had taric who was doing only 2% worse than leona in laning phase and vastly outscaling her in mid/late. He was left untouched. So again... example of terrible understanding by some players and the balance team of power curves and how they should be balanced across the duration of the game. Stronger earlier? Then you better be weaker later. Super strong late? Better be "super" weak early or 1/2 of "super" weak early and mid. Net power curves must be balanced or you end up with only early game mattering or only late game mattering and literally no point to playing a lane bully or midgame champ because their advantages are nigh meaningless or even non-existent due to over-buffing a scaling champ's early game and allowing them to compete on basically even footing at their WEAKEST point in the game vs the enemy's STRONGEST point.[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Fear the Kayn11 votes

I don't get the Pyke hate. His winrate plat+ is 48%. Yes he does damage, yes he has playmaking ability, but I don't get this 'HES OP' spam that I see on the boards ever since hes been released. Numbers show hes NOT as strong as everyone makes him out to be.

Rexxiee3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4k0n8Z2F,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-09-19T00:07:20.628+0000)

I don't get the Pyke hate. His winrate plat+ is 48%. Yes he does damage, yes he has playmaking ability, but I don't get this 'HES OP' spam that I see on the boards ever since hes been released. Numbers show hes NOT as strong as everyone makes him out to be.

His winrate at diamond + is 51%, his pick rate is 15% and his ban rate is 30%.

Tell me that shit needs buffs again, holy shit.

The good side about the buffs are that i'll enver have to play against that overloaded abomination again since his ban rate is going to triple.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Yorick nerfed because low elo but Sorcs+Orb/Morello combo, Gnar, and Kai'Sa break high elo and competitive play and aren't touched.

ValiantKiller3 votes

{quoted}

Yorick nerfed because low elo but Sorcs+Orb/Morello combo, Gnar, and Kai'Sa break high elo and competitive play and aren't touched.

Still why buffing daruis ?

AirKingNeo4 votes

cause he's kinda meh

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

cause he's kinda meh

meh in how form with his banned rate and his pickrate ?

AirKingNeo6 votes

that fact that it's 0 in competitive

saltran1 votes

Gnar is not breaking competitive bruh in which season do you think we are? If you do watch pro play you know that saying this on Summer 2018 - Worlds is just full bs.

And all the Kai'Sa being too strong on competitive yeah yeah she is strong but why no one complains about Varus who has higher pressence than her on pro play and has been a top adc for almost 2 years in a row on competitive?

MysticFlow1 votes

kaisa click W, wow aoe damage basic attacks that auto target, much skill

kaisa land far shot, dash straight to you, wow.... varus actually has to walk up, and position

kaisa goes invisible.. wow stealing vaynes mechanics, much skill, varus you can always see

its like asking why people complain about yasuo/zoe even if their winrate were to be 20%. think about it a little bit, and you may find some champs regardless of how picked they are, are more cancerous than others.

why has teemo been the most hated champ for 5 years? (fun fact, it's not how picked he was or his win rate).

and that my friend. is why no one complains about varus who takes positioning and has skill shots that don't make him dash to you.

who's easier to beat 1v1? varus or vayne/kaisa? (some require a team more than others) and also some can always be seen, where as some have foooocking invisibility, like akali

you can run away from varus, kaisa lands her dumb wide shot, and she can come to u from her nexus

saltran1 votes

Kai'Sa W is not point and click, if you want to cry about a champ at least fucking read her skills.

Popperofski2 votes

why the fuck is Nunu getting nerfed

Spank the Fox9 votes

He isn’t.

[There are other Nunu changes this patch]

He’s getting a net buff. These are PBE nerfs to his PBE buffs.

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