Ranged champions are even going to be dominant in the jungle now lol

FalconPawwwwnch·Dec 7, 2014·44 votes·5,245 views

"Ranged champions can kite the monsters due to their soft resets without taking much damage since their hard reset takes awhile to kick in" - Kobe2014

Goodbye melee champions. You already have pretty much been kicked out of top lane while never being used bot lane and rarely being used mid lane, now ranged champions can even outjungle you due to never taking damage from mobs lol. You can pretty much full clear on any ranged autoattacker without taking any damage now.

"But if you don't pick a melee champion in the jungle you'll need to pick a melee somewhere else to be tanky!"

Or you could just pick gnar since he doesn't have the downside of being melee in lane lol. Why would I EVER pick a tank top lane if Gnar exists with a better laning phase, better teamfight, more damage, more everything, while also being ranged in lane, might as well start running double AP if you can't get Gnar. As long as Gnar is good you know who will never be used? Renekton, Mundo, Shyvana, Shen, etc. Looks like Riot solved the melee lane problem that they so wanted to!

This game's balance between ranged and melee is an absolute joke. Once pros learn how to abuse this you won't see melee anymore

74 Comments

CenturosDec 7, 201411 votes

How many ranged champions have good ganks, though?

FalconPawwwwnchDec 7, 20144 votes

How many ranged champions have good ganks, though?

Well considering even if they don't have an instant CC they can proc red buff from range along with smite... so I'd imagine a good amount

CharrendDec 7, 20143 votes

Make the slow melee only, or make the true damage only apply from melees.

I swear ranged champions are only good because of red buff.

AlëkDec 7, 20142 votes

How many ranged champions have good ganks, though?

Twitch. Vayne. :> ASHE JUNGLE CONFIRMED.

TonyTonyMordecaiDec 7, 20141 votes

jungle teemo. nuff said

Meep ManDec 7, 20142 votes

goes into champion list to see

Ahri Elise Fiddlesticks Gnar Nidalee Teemo TwistedFate Twitch

These guys are kinda good at ganking and can SOMEWHAT jungle. (havent tested so dont hold my word for it)

Learn 2 SwimDec 7, 20142 votes

goes into champion list to see

These guys are kinda good at ganking and can SOMEWHAT jungle. (havent tested so dont hold my word for it)

You need attack speed to yoyo the mobs back and forth to actually kill them. Having an APC with no AA damage or speed wont work.

Teemo and Twitch are the best unorthodox ranged jungle champs you listed because the poison stops jungle minions from resetting so easily.

Ahri wont work. TF would work if you built him AD. As AP he would have really bad clear times but is still doable.

cshakesDec 7, 20142 votes

http://www.twitch.tv/esltv_lol/b/596419709?t=05h42m52s

On-hit AS Twisted Fate.

LuckyRedenDec 8, 20141 votes

Elise and Fiddles def work, Nid wouldn't be terrible, cougar in, kite out using E to heal and for attack speed. Nid jung would have lousy ganks though.

Tannhäuser GateDec 7, 20142 votes

UOL Kiki played ad TF and beat TSM last night btw

TortferngatrDec 7, 20142 votes

*onhit TF with Devourer and Wit's End; don't think he built any actual attack damage.

He also played Wukong the next game, despite Wukong being melee and having pretty bad initial clears. Wukong also had amazingly on-point ultimates.

MrSlowDieDec 7, 201410 votes

Ranged In Peace melee

Dark TrennowDec 7, 20149 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

DiostukosDec 7, 201436 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

If you think Warwick didn't deserve nerfs you're biased.

Dark TrennowDec 7, 20143 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

If you think Warwick didn't deserve nerfs you're biased.

Not saying WW didn't need nerfs. He is blatantly stronger than practically anyone else in the jungle right now. I just used him as an example of how a melee gets nerfed into the ground while broken adc's get to stay that way for long periods of time.

Hyrum GraffDec 7, 201413 votes

One example does not a pattern make.

#theblindmonk

Auz the RipperDec 7, 201424 votes

But Lee sin is ranged He's a ranged, melee, tanky dps, assassin, mage, tank, support, jungler

Hyrum GraffDec 7, 20141 votes

Touche

AdgharKHDec 7, 20145 votes

I was about to say mage not so much, but then I looked up his kit and he deals magic damage with his E. Well played.

SookoDec 7, 20145 votes

All wrapped up in one defective man

TortferngatrDec 7, 20141 votes

Lucian is also getting some hefty nerfs to his passive.

Bears Dont CareDec 7, 20144 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

If you think Warwick didn't deserve nerfs you're biased.

He didnt. Skirmisher was overpowered and devourer was a stronger feral flare. Nothing about him was broken. He isnt lee sin

AlëkDec 7, 201412 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

If you think Warwick didn't deserve nerfs you're biased.

He didnt. Skirmisher was overpowered and devourer was a stronger feral flare. Nothing about him was broken. He isnt lee sin

This is very incorrect. Warwick is the only champion that Devourer is OP as hell with. Beside they both got nerfed on PBE anyway.

Bears Dont CareDec 7, 20146 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

If you think Warwick didn't deserve nerfs you're biased.

He didnt. Skirmisher was overpowered and devourer was a stronger feral flare. Nothing about him was broken. He isnt lee sin

This is very incorrect. Warwick is the only champion that Devourer is OP as hell with. Beside they both got nerfed on PBE anyway.

Clearly you have no idea about yi, noc, tryndamere or snyone else.

If devoyrer was an issue, thrn you are suggesting ww was an issue in s4. Clearly this does not match becausr the issue is actually the items. Nerfing a weak jungler was a bad idea. Yi can destroy a team with devourer even more than ww

AlëkDec 7, 20146 votes

Why does Riot hate melee so much? Nothing has been done to help out melee champions. No buffs. No item changes. Warwick, a melee champion, does great in the new jungle. Nerfed a patch later. Tristana and Lucian are broken for months with no changes. Seriously, the bias is disgusting at this point.

If you think Warwick didn't deserve nerfs you're biased.

He didnt. Skirmisher was overpowered and devourer was a stronger feral flare. Nothing about him was broken. He isnt lee sin

This is very incorrect. Warwick is the only champion that Devourer is OP as hell with. Beside they both got nerfed on PBE anyway.

Clearly you have no idea about yi, noc, tryndamere or snyone else.

If devoyrer was an issue, thrn you are suggesting ww was an issue in s4. Clearly this does not match becausr the issue is actually the items. Nerfing a weak jungler was a bad idea. Yi can destroy a team with devourer even more than ww

Yes but only way late in the game. Because warwicks kit sinks even better with devourer than yi, his lvl 6 ganks are downright deadly. Warwick with a skirmishers devourers easily destroys ADC's.

I'm not saying that Devourer doesn't help the other champions. But because warwick's kit already went well with FF, it became so much stronger with the skirmishers enchantment. When you have a point and click execute, its too strong. Atleast yi and tryn have to have more time to build up their damage. And even then there is a chance that the enemy can escape.

Warwick ults, then gets a yi ultimate on his E kuz, if the champion he targets isn't dead it will definitely be below 25% or lower. Also the problem with this is that those champions are ASSASSINS. If targeted they can be shutdown. Warwick can assassinate the ADC while being tanky. All he needs is a bork and devourer as his ONLY damage items. Late game yi and tryn are dangerous, but not the unstoppable threat that WW is.

Bears Dont CareDec 7, 20142 votes

Yes but only way late in the game. Because warwicks kit sinks even better with devourer than yi, his lvl 6 ganks are downright deadly. Warwick with a skirmishers devourers easily destroys ADC's.

That is more so an issue of skirmisher than devourer. keep in mind, devourer is merely feral flare with 15 stacks to start, that would suggest WW was issue in S4 when he really wasn't. Skirmisher, however, is new and provides true damage that previously was unavailable to him.

I'm not saying that Devourer doesn't help the other champions. But because warwick's kit already went well with FF, it became so much stronger with the skirmishers enchantment. When you have a point and click execute, its too strong. Atleast yi and tryn have to have more time to build up their damage. And even then there is a chance that the enemy can escape.

Actually, you won't be one shot by WW"s ult until he has at least 3 to 4 items built, and this is primarily becaue of the damage that is incoming from skirmisher which is also increasing over time. Keep in mind, WW was doing his thing in S4 where the same items were avilable.

Warwick ults, then gets a yi ultimate on his E kuz, if the champion he targets isn't dead it will definitely be below 25% or lower. Also the problem with this is that those champions are ASSASSINS. If targeted they can be shutdown. Warwick can assassinate the ADC while being tanky. All he needs is a bork and devourer as his ONLY damage items. Late game yi and tryn are dangerous, but not the unstoppable threat that WW is.

Warwick's E is not anyting close to Master yi's ultimate. Yi's ultimate provides an MS buff yes, but it also makes him immune to snares/roots, provides an AD buff that further synergizes with the rest of his items and his gap closer. Lategame Yi and Tryndamere and much more fearsome than WW, who needs to leap into the midle of your team and hope you don't have the sense to CC him.

WW is far from unstoppable, most people are just bad and don't know how to play against him. It is why you never see his pick rate being very high, it is only recenly with the jungle changes.

So suggesting WW in himself is deserving nerfs when its the environment changing is a poor argument.

SerpensDec 7, 20141 votes

Yes but only way late in the game. Because warwicks kit sinks even better with devourer than yi, his lvl 6 ganks are downright deadly. Warwick with a skirmishers devourers easily destroys ADC's.

That is more so an issue of skirmisher than devourer. keep in mind, devourer is merely feral flare with 15 stacks to start, that would suggest WW was issue in S4 when he really wasn't. Skirmisher, however, is new and provides true damage that previously was unavailable to him.

I'm not saying that Devourer doesn't help the other champions. But because warwick's kit already went well with FF, it became so much stronger with the skirmishers enchantment. When you have a point and click execute, its too strong. Atleast yi and tryn have to have more time to build up their damage. And even then there is a chance that the enemy can escape.

Actually, you won't be one shot by WW"s ult until he has at least 3 to 4 items built, and this is primarily becaue of the damage that is incoming from skirmisher which is also increasing over time. Keep in mind, WW was doing his thing in S4 where the same items were avilable.

Warwick ults, then gets a yi ultimate on his E kuz, if the champion he targets isn't dead it will definitely be below 25% or lower. Also the problem with this is that those champions are ASSASSINS. If targeted they can be shutdown. Warwick can assassinate the ADC while being tanky. All he needs is a bork and devourer as his ONLY damage items. Late game yi and tryn are dangerous, but not the unstoppable threat that WW is.

Warwick's E is not anyting close to Master yi's ultimate. Yi's ultimate provides an MS buff yes, but it also makes him immune to snares/roots, provides an AD buff that further synergizes with the rest of his items and his gap closer. Lategame Yi and Tryndamere and much more fearsome than WW, who needs to leap into the midle of your team and hope you don't have the sense to CC him.

WW is far from unstoppable, most people are just bad and don't know how to play against him. It is why you never see his pick rate being very high, it is only recenly with the jungle changes.

So suggesting WW in himself is deserving nerfs when its the environment changing is a poor argument.

It makes him immune to slows not hard cc like roots stuns etc.

Bears Dont CareDec 7, 20143 votes

It makes him immune to slows not hard cc like roots stuns etc.

Ah thank you.

5 hits per 1.8s = 5/1.8 = 2.7777... Attackspeed

Erm...no...because then we can start saying things like.. womg, Yasuo's ult is = to X amount of aa's Let's not say things that are confusing.

That#s exactly why he is broken. Because his ultimate basically grants him on his more on hit procs than any fullbuild champion in the game can get - at level 6.

Not really, because unlike those other champions, WW doesn't have a way of sticking to you until your health dips below 50%, and even then, he has no gap closer out of his ult. When the only two things you can do is Ult and AA, that ult needs to be strong.

Guess what? Its strong. Guess what? only bad players have an issue with it.

You can interrupt it, you can cleanse it, and the damage he deals is only to a single target. Meanwhile, graves, Lucian, Twitch, tristana, can kill whole teams and WW is somehow ridiculouly OP for being able to pick someone every 48 seconds?

Shit...nerf the entire cast then.

AlëkDec 8, 20141 votes

Lategame Yi and Tryndamere and much more fearsome than WW, who needs to leap into the midle of your team and hope you don't have the sense to CC him.

Waaaaaaaiiiiiit a second wut. What you just stated above.... Doesn't make any sense at all. Late game yi and tryn are the ones who have to jump into the middle of fights and hope noone CC's them. If they get CC'd they will instantly get destroyed. It's why you never see them played in high elo. In low elo, ofcourse most people don't know how to play against them, so just let them reck everyone. Even if warwick gets CC'd during his ult, he's tanky enough that if focused, the rest of the team will just destroy them. He has a heal on his Q and built in lifesteal. That in combination with the fact that he builds bruiser makes him a stupid champion to try and target. If Yi, or tryn jump into the middle of a fight and get hard CC'd they blow up easily.

As far as I'm concerned there is no difference between Yi/Tryn without devourer at all and a Yi/Tryn with one. Because late game they can still do the exact same thing. Which is blowing up teams. The difference is a some magic damage on their attacks. Either way you look at it, a Yi got penta's before feral was released. He was never played in high elo because of how easy he is to shutdown. Hell, even bronzies like me know that if you CC yi he dies pretty much instantly. Tryn is in a weak place right now kuz frozen smite kills him in his ult. Even so, my point remains the same.

Warwick's ult is his main threat, but even if he is CC'd during the ult it would take a good 4 seconds of the whole team focusing him for him to die. I would give a Yi 1.5 seconds at most before he dies if hard CC'd. The threat is just so much different when you have someone who can destroy your squishy and then KEEP destroying the rest of you team with mixed damage. Assassins like yi jump in probably kill a squishy and die. If the team is good, they don't even kill the squishy.

Bears Dont CareDec 8, 20141 votes

Waaaaaaaiiiiiit a second wut. What you just stated above.... Doesn't make any sense at all. Late game yi and tryn are the ones who have to jump into the middle of fights and hope noone CC's them. If they get CC'd they will instantly get destroyed.

Not necessarily, Yi and Tryndamere both have methods of dealing with CC in ways WW cannot. For example, both of them have reasonable access to mercutial scimitar which Warwick does not. Tryndamere has his ult as well that lets him survive and outlast any CC that lands on him, and Master Yi can use his Q to dodge any CC and damage incoming.

this is why they are ebtter team fighters and cleaners than WW who has to be the first to jump n, since his suppression effect suppresses hima s well. He doesn't fight during his ult.

It's why you never see them played in high elo.

They get piked i high elo, but as WW was in S4, its rare to see them.

In low elo, ofcourse most people don't know how to play against them, so just let them reck everyone. Even if warwick gets CC'd during his ult, he's tanky enough that if focused, the rest of the team will just destroy them. He has a heal on his Q and built in lifesteal. That in combination with the fact that he builds bruiser makes him a stupid champion to try and target. If Yi, or tryn jump into the middle of a fight and get hard CC'd they blow up easily.

If warwick gets CC'ed during his ult, he completely loses all of his team fighting ability, and he dies very very fast. Why? his main source of tankiness is life steal, when you are CC'ed, wtf are you going to hit? Hard CC completely disables WW. Hard CC doesn't stop tryndamere from ulting, and Master Yi can completely dodge CC using his Q.

Warwick has no tools to survive when he gets hard CC'ed, the latter have means of dealing with incoming CC.

As far as I'm concerned there is no difference between Yi/Tryn without devourer at all and a Yi/Tryn with one.

... Dealing an additional 80 magic damage per hit that scales into late game makes no difference? Really!?

Judging from everything you said, it really sounds as if you are horribly inexperienced and you're flat out refusing to acknowledge WW's weaknesses. Everyone is affected by hard CC, but some can survive it (tryndamere), and some can dodge it (yi), and some have to pray they get ignored (WW).

WW isn't a problem. His Kit, was never an issue. Skirmisher was the issue, because it introduced 400+ true damage that he did not possess before. But hey, its totally WW being broken even though he hasn't done anything worth mentioning for 4 seasons. Clearly, WW is a problem.

AlëkDec 9, 20141 votes

Not necessarily, Yi and Tryndamere both have methods of dealing with CC in ways WW cannot. For example, both of them have reasonable access to mercutial scimitar which Warwick does not.

warwick doesn't even need scimitar. even if he is CC'd he could easily survive.

Tryndamere has his ult as well that lets him survive and outlast any CC that lands on him, and Master Yi can use his Q to dodge any CC and damage incoming.

Yi's Q is still a threat, but that Yi would have to be incredibly skilled in order to dodge numerous CC's incoming. Especially considering the window.

If warwick gets CC'ed during his ult, he completely loses all of his team fighting ability, and he dies very very fast. Why? his main source of tankiness is life steal, when you are CC'ed, wtf are you going to hit? Hard CC completely disables WW. Hard CC doesn't stop tryndamere from ulting, and Master Yi can completely dodge CC using his Q.

Warwick doesn't lose armor and MR when he ults. He doesn't suddenly become squishy. And any smart Warwick knows to let the tank engage first so that he doesn't get shredded the moment he jumps in. It's just common sense.

Warwick has no tools to survive when he gets hard CC'ed, the latter have means of dealing with incoming CC.

You know.... there's this thing called tenacity. I heard it's really strong on bruisers/tanks

Dealing an additional 80 magic damage per hit that scales into late game makes no difference? Really!? Once again you're missing the point. I'm not saying there isn't a difference. I'm saying that even without that 80 magic damage they could blow up teams just as easily. There is a difference but its like having a gun that can blow up entire cities. We know its capable of it, but just because we want to put a laser on top of it to blow up even better. Tryn/Yi were known to be able to blow up teams BEFORE FF. Devourer hasn't changed their playstyles at all. It hasn't changed the champions at all. As you said, the only difference is 80 magic damage on an auto attack that already dealt enough damage. Judging from everything you said, it really sounds as if you are horribly inexperienced and you're flat out refusing to acknowledge WW's weaknesses.

now now. if playing casually for a year and a half is inexperienced then pigs fly. I'm not refusing to acknowledge it. I'm saying that compared to Yi and Tryn's weaknesses, his is minimal. He's a bruiser who can deal tons of damage with 2 damage items. He's hard AF to kill as it is. Yi and Tryn are squishy assassins who deal a lot of damage, but if they get focused they can die extremely fast. Tryndamere's ult late game is very strong, however it has nothing on WW's late game. It's a KNOWN fact that Warwick has one of the strongest late game's period. Even BEFORE FF.

Everyone is affected by hard CC, but some can survive it (tryndamere), and some can dodge it (yi), and some have to pray they get ignored (WW). WW isn't a problem. His Kit, was never an issue. Skirmisher was the issue, because it introduced 400+ true damage that he did not possess before. But hey, its totally WW being broken even though he hasn't done anything worth mentioning for 4 seasons. Clearly, WW is a problem.

As far as I'm concerned, Yi and Tryn have had the same problem for a very long time. They're squishies who get blown up by any decent team the moment they jump in. They snowball if fed, but in general they are easy to handle early game.

Kowe The EwokDec 7, 20141 votes

It's most likely not broken that his grants him 2.78 attackspeed for the duration... That can't ever be the reason why on hits are broken on him.... It must be the on hits /sarcasm

Bears Dont CareDec 7, 20141 votes

It's most likely not broken that his grants him 2.78 attackspeed for the duration... That can't ever be the reason why on hits are broken on him.... It must be the on hits /sarcasm

2.78 attack speed? When did he manage to break the speed cap? Let alone it must not be the fact his ult applies 5 hits within 1.5s, and that there is the true damage from skirmisher.

So no, WW isn't broken and really hasn't had a period where he was outside of the items he uses being too strong. Master yi is just as good.

Kowe The EwokDec 7, 20143 votes

5 hits per 1.8s = 5/1.8 = 2.7777... Attackspeed

That#s exactly why he is broken. Because his ultimate basically grants him on his more on hit procs than any fullbuild champion in the game can get - at level 6.

ofartDec 7, 20146 votes

I think Riot has added a lot more options for melees this season. Path of Iron and Righteous Glory are examples. Lee, Amumu, Rengar, Wu, Mao, Trynd, Pantheon, Akali, Fizz, Zed, J4 etc. still seem fine and I'm sure I can think of more examples if I wanted.

Ranged junglers have always been a thing. Twitch's most popular place before the rework used to be jungle! The reason they didn't get picked much was their slower clears (back when the jungle didn't hurt), worse ganks, usually higher gold requirement to be relevant, generally worse CC and the squishiness. Most of these reasons still exist now. Just because we see a team pull out TF jungle (with pre-nerf Devourer) to level TSM into picking Xerath and getting countered, doesn't make all melee junglers disappear. The same thing goes for C9 picking 2 ADCs. It's called strategic diversity. Did you see double ADC in TSM's games? These IEM games have been more interesting and fresh than I've seen in years.

TortferngatrDec 7, 20141 votes

Indeed. Just watching the UoL vs. TSM games made me more confident in the Season 5 changes as a whole.

RebonackDec 7, 20145 votes

I made a topic about this like... Two days after the new patch went live.

I can do a full jungle clear with Kog'Maw before making my first back. Works with most any ranged champion. You just have to know the right place to stand.

MrBuffingtonDec 7, 20145 votes

Apparently tank Annie is the new Ryze of top lane, and Kayle jungle is very strong right now. Melees don't get any relief, lol

Kowe The EwokDec 7, 20144 votes

Sigh. Yet again a post by somebody who doesn't jungle.... Please try it before you start QQ'ing about it. Ranged champions are not only much more difficult to jungle (make a single false step loose a quarter of your health) but are also extremely vulnearable to counterjunlging AND have worse cleartimes.

Have fun against a jungle Xin who is smart enough to place 1 or 2 wards in your jungle....

The WhamboozlerDec 7, 20141 votes

^ Yeah, this.

thinking manDec 7, 20143 votes

[deleted]

Ariel the CruelDec 7, 20149 votes

LeeSin Akali Braum Fizz Jayce Leona Maokai Rengar Shaco Tryndamere Zed

Can you please define "never"?

WooBeeWooDec 7, 20143 votes

I agree I've been saying this for a while. Ranged to so overpowered and especially adcs once they get ie its basically over unless you have mobility burst and cc.... Its annoying and has all but killed the game for me and I'm a jungle main so if ranged takes over the jung.... I literally wont stomach the few games I play now.