So if Yasuo gets his x2 crit passive removed (and crit reduction) How is he supposed to deal damage?

Marshbouy·Nov 27, 2016·8 votes·1,298 views

Answer me this Yasuo haters.

In order to get 100% crit he would need 3 zeal items and 10% crit runes 3 zeal items and I.E. 4 zeal items (what the fuck) 2 zeal items and I.E. plus essence reaver(E.R. is a huge waste on him)

So, getting to 100% crit would be incredibly hard on him. He would need to trade loads of damage from other sources and have way more attack speed then he could ever need. He'd be turned into an RNG fest of a champion and would either turn into a worse Master Yi or have to build amor pen bruiser.

55 Comments

DeathBurstNov 27, 20168 votes

Why should he be able to reach 100% Crit? Even most ADC don't. The goal of the passive is not to let him reach 100% exactly, it's to allow him to buy less offensive items than an ADC, because he also needs some slots for defense, since he is melee. But he can live perfectly fine with 80%, just like ADCs.
Who said he should lose the x2 crit passive anyway? Did I miss a big update on PBE or what?

MarshbouyNov 27, 20163 votes

Why should he be able to reach 100% Crit? Even most ADC don't. The goal of the passive is not to let him reach 100% exactly, it's to allow him to buy less offensive items than an ADC, because he also needs some slots for defense, since he is melee. But he can live perfectly fine with 80%, just like ADCs.

80% of the time is not enough. Reliability is huge in league of legends.

Who said he should lose the x2 crit passive anyway? Did I miss a big update on PBE or what?

In case you missed it, a lot of yasuo haters (people who can't buy ninja tabi and a randuins) have been asking for it to be completely removed. No compensation at all.

Zero Skill TankNov 27, 20161 votes

TBH current situation, when he gets a lot of crit early in the game due to his passive(but not 100% until 2 items) isn't that good at all, especially on top Yasuo. You want to try shut Yasuo down early, but how do play aggresively vs a champion who can nearly double his damage with a lucky draw.

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20161 votes

Double his damage early on isn't actually as bad as it sounds. (Good) yasuo players run full attspd pages (most comonly 29% with armor and mr, and some running 34% with just mr).

This lack of ad + reduced crit damage make a yasuo with a zeal do around the same damage a marksman with a BF Sword would do (both 1300 iirc).

Zero Skill TankNov 28, 20161 votes

Double his damage early on isn't actually as bad as it sounds.

How isn't it? It's a difference between a won trade, and a heavily lost one you can't play around. On marksman RNG is bad early game, but not as bad as on Yasuo, because most of them don't have an ability that would crit.

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20161 votes

Umm, I'm pretty sure I thoroughly explained in my previous post.

Surely you didn't just read the first sentence and instantly posted?

Surely not

DeathBurstNov 27, 20162 votes

In case you missed it, a lot of yasuo haters...

Don't create a thread just to answer to some haters. It only helps spamming the boards even more and makes you look as crazy as them.

(And again, 80% is more than enough for ADCs, so why not for Yasuo? But I don't really care, to be honest.)

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20163 votes

The main reason why it doesn't work for him is simply because he is melee. He inherently gets less autos in than adcs, due to him having to gapclose. Him having to gapclose also means he is taking alot of damage he wouldn't otherwise be taking if he were ranged.

The solution is either to give him insane base stats/scalings (yi/trynd), or to allow him to crit more easily than adcs.

Riot chose the latter, and gave him reduced crit damage to allow him to function without making ranged adcs useless.

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20162 votes

Yi gets more free stats in worth of gold than Yasuo btw, I'm pretty sure so does tryndamere.

Big LincolnNov 28, 20161 votes

yasuo actually gets to teamfight though

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20161 votes

If you're good enough at crit yi, teamfights means pentas

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20161 votes

Honestly, 90% of the time, yasuo's teamfights consist of protecting the adc, and cleaning up once the fight is almost done.

The only time you really go deep in fights is when you have a good knockup on your team

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20161 votes

And Yi players like me go in like some suicidal terrorist : ^)

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Why should he be able to reach 100% Crit? Even most ADC don't. The goal of the passive is not to let him reach 100% exactly, it's to allow him to buy less offensive items than an ADC, because he also needs some slots for defense, since he is melee. But he can live perfectly fine with 80%, just like ADCs.

cool, lets increase his range just like adcs too.

But seriously, that's very ugly design to say "hey you have to risk everything on this attack but you only get an 80% chance of not costing your team the game no matter how well you're doing. GOOD LUCK

Who said he should lose the x2 crit passive anyway? Did I miss a big update on PBE or what?

its a common argument, and a very stupidly presented one usually

PermabannedGarenNov 28, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Why should he be able to reach 100% Crit? Even most ADC don't. The goal of the passive is not to let him reach 100% exactly, it's to allow him to buy less offensive items than an ADC, because he also needs some slots for defense, since he is melee. But he can live perfectly fine with 80%, just like ADCs.

Who said he should lose the x2 crit passive anyway? Did I miss a big update on PBE or what?

ADCs are RANGED.

DeathBurstNov 28, 20162 votes

ADC are Ranged. And Yasuo gets the same damage from half their items.

One could assume that the two things compensate each other. I understand why Yasuo needs as much damage from less items. I don't understand why he would need MORE damage in total, though. The Crit passive is supposed to free some slots so that he can buy some defense. Not so that he can buy even more damage than the class which is supposed to have the highest DPS in the whole game.

PermabannedGarenNov 28, 20164 votes

{quoted}

ADC are Ranged. And Yasuo gets the same damage from half their items.

One could assume that the two things compensate each other. I understand why Yasuo needs as much damage from less items. I don't understand why he would need MORE damage in total, though. The Crit passive is supposed to free some slots so that he can buy some defense. Not so that he can buy even more damage than the class which is supposed to have the highest DPS in the whole game.

You seem to have some misplaced idea about ADCs.

They are meant to have the SAFEST high DPS in the game.

Master Yi at full build has higher DPS than any ADC in the game.

Skirmishers are essentially ADCs that are melee. Each one is meant to have ADC DPS or higher, as well as tools to survive in melee.

Yasuo is probably the most successful design of the class.

JustMonika13Nov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Who said he should lose the x2 crit passive anyway? Did I miss a big update on PBE or what?

Pretty much every boards crybaby calling for Yasuo nerfs. OP is asking what they (the QQers) would give him instead.

DeathBurstNov 28, 20161 votes

As I already answered to OP:

{quoted}

Don't create a thread just to answer to some haters. It only helps spamming the boards even more and makes you look as crazy as them.

Darkslayer85Nov 27, 20164 votes

Like every other champion in the game.

MarshbouyNov 27, 20162 votes

Like Fiora Tryndamere perhaps? So he needs so max health true damage and or an undying ultimate? sounds good to me.

CerealBoxOfDoomNov 28, 20161 votes

don't forget the more or less guaranteed crit without items

SintamaNov 28, 20164 votes

Darius Irelia Jax Hecarim LeeSin Khazix Kled Renekton Riven Pantheon MonkeyKing Trundle Champions that don't get free 100% crit and can still do damage.

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20163 votes

Darius has free 200 ad lategame fyi

Irelia gets tons of true damage

Jax gets free attack speed, def stats and tons of mixed damage

Kha doesn't get any free stats, he's an assassin

None of the comparisons are even remotely valid other than riven and jax because they are in the same class, so I won't go futher.

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20163 votes

Ok, but how many of them have their kit and scalings based around getting 100% crit?

SintamaNov 28, 20162 votes

None. That's not the point. The point is removing the double-crit passive and giving him something else, but OP believes Yasuo would be completely unable to do damage without the double-crit passive.

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20161 votes

He is right, in the way that yasuo wouldn't do damage if his double crit was just removed. This thread is made in response to the many threads that just ask for the crit to be removed without any compensation.

Now if you made up for it, then yes, yasuo would be viable without double crit, but that depends on how you are buffing him

PermabannedGarenNov 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Champions that don't get free 100% crit and can still do damage.

So only three of those champions are auto attack centered champions like Yasuo, as in the bulk of their damage is done through auto attacks. Listing champions who are AD casters is incredibly stupid because Yasuo isn't one. He can't rely on the big boy AOE AD scaling abilities Darius, Lee Sin, Wukong, or Riven can.

Also, a lot of those champions damage does, in fact, fall off. Hecarim hits like a wet noodle late game, relatively speaking. He can still deal decent damage to squishies, but he deals literal dog shit damage to tanks. Renekton falls off damage-wise and just soaks up enemy team damage when he tries to dive the carry. Lee Sin typically has to build tanky to survive late game team fights, so his damage against tanky people also falls off. Pantheon? Lol. That guy is possibly the worst-scaling champion in the entire game.

Now, onto the only three champions who are even relevant. Jax, Irelia, and Trundle.

Jax deals damage late game because he has a huge amount of mixed damage (making him hard to itemize against), he gets a lot of attack speed, and he can itemize heavily for damage because he gets tank stats from his damage stats.

Irelia's damage frankly kind of falls off late game, but she gets a boat load of on-hit true damage, some mixed damage, and huge burst and synergy with triforce.

Trundle's damage late game is good... against one person. He singles out one person to destroy late game (often the tank to steal more resistances, but he can also burst down the carry this way). This is not Yasuo's identity, why should it be?

SintamaNov 28, 20162 votes

So it is impossible for Yasuo to do damage in any way if the double-crit passive was removed and he was given something else? That is what you are proposing, which is opposite what I proposed.

PermabannedGarenNov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So it is impossible for Yasuo to do damage in any way if the double-crit passive was removed and he was given something else? That is what you are proposing, which is opposite what I proposed.

What would be the difference?

If Yasuo ended up doing literally the same thing through different mechanics, what would be the purpose of changing it?

All I did was point out why those champion's abilities to do damage don't really apply to Yasuo.

Dominick DestineNov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

an undying ultimate?

Windwall

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20162 votes

Windwall saves Yasuo from being bitchslapped to death by master yi!!

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20161 votes

It also does 10k true damage to turrets and Dragon

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20161 votes

Forgot dat, will add

MarshbouyNov 28, 20163 votes

I forgot about how windwall blocks yasuo from taking absolutely any damage including damage from things like ignite.

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20162 votes

Ikr, windwall deals 100% true maximum health damage!!

MarshbouyNov 28, 20161 votes

riot should really get to nerfing that.

GULAG 4 UNov 28, 20162 votes

Btw dominick destine is a known troll, he spews so much bullshit about riot's banning system, Yasuo, lee sin and other things that nothing he says should be trusted more than some ad about boner pills.

Stars ShaperNov 27, 20163 votes

He would need another steroid in his kit. A more reliable one.

People don't realize that changing his current steroid would only make Yasuo more powerful in all the game phases.

MarshbouyNov 27, 20162 votes

something like true damage, extra AAs, or more pointless survivability. Yeah we know how fun and easy to balance those are Fiora MasterYi Tryndamere

Spicy RiceNov 28, 20163 votes

Well yeah. What people don't seem to realize is that yasuo is the most balanced of melee adc's.

Imo, the only reason people complain about him is because he is the least bs of the lot, and people would rather blame losing on bs kits rather than on being outplayed/outskilled

LostFr0stNov 27, 20161 votes

I think you're right, they'd probably give him something like Ashe has.

Nameless VoiceNov 27, 20161 votes

I'm curious why he would need to build for 100% crit at all if he didn't have that passive. Wouldn't he just build AD items instead?

MarshbouyNov 27, 20161 votes

He would be doing way less damage. He is one of riot's attempts at making a melee ADC. If he were to stop building crit chance then his damage would effectively be halved, and if he built crit chance without his current passive, he would be dealing the same amount of damage roughly only 50%-80% of the time.

Spicy RiceNov 27, 20163 votes

It's assuming he still needs crit for his armor pen on ult

Nameless VoiceNov 27, 20161 votes

I'd imagine that if they reworked his passive, it wouldn't be in isolation - they'd have to change other parts of his kit accordingly.

I should have said that in the earlier post.