Why is Grevious wounds so much better and more accessible to ADC than APC/Tanks?

Valhalla Rising·Jul 9, 2016·4 votes·402 views

Its clearly way better:

An 800g component item that applies Grievous Wounds on any physical damage.

Vs a 2900g full item that only applies Grievous Wounds to targets below 35%, which is nearly useless considering how many abilities deal increased damage or straight up execute low health targets..

Even less sensible is the fact wounds last 8 seconds compared to 3 and 5, but why? Low health targets should not take 8 seconds to kill.

And there is just no Grievous Wound available to tanks period, supports are already choking on all the mana/cdr/utility items they should build instead.

Unjust...

9 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 9, 20162 votes

because it would be broken as shit to have it so accessable to tanks and AP

also mundo isn't a tank

SP DodgecityJul 9, 20161 votes

Mundo is pretty tank-y... like I always build him really tanky and I still do lots of damage haha

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=SP Dodgecity,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4W62WhEX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-07-09T19:00:34.278+0000)

Mundo is pretty tank-y... like I always build him really tanky and I still do lots of damage haha

fighters are often tank-ier than tanks

SwiftKitten88Jul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

also mundo isn't a tank

what planet do you live on...

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

what planet do you live on...

one where mundo has literally nothing to offer his team as a tank except a slow.

Mundo is a fighter not a tank.

Woook3rJul 9, 20161 votes

DrMundo

Sightless66Jul 9, 20161 votes

Well, regarding tanks and supports, you want to limit the accessibility of grievous wounds to a limited number of classes because if it is too accessible, then it can actually be too easy to counter healing. If you start having the expectation that you'll have a grievous wounds wounds item in every game, then you have to start balancing healers around that, and they become overbearing whenever people can't get it, and it just becomes a required item tax on the enemy team instead of an interesting choice for them. That is also why you don't want to make it a support or tank item. They have a lot of flexibility in their item purchases due to not being strongly tied to stats, and they can afford to pick up the strong utility anytime the game calls for it without really losing a lot. The natural solution is to make it an item for damage-dealing classes, because that makes it easier to make it a more punishing purchase.

As for why it is good on AD carries; that is because they give up much more to get Mortal Remainder than a mage does by getting Morellonomicon. Getting Mortal Remainder gives up a lot of the damage Lord Dominik's Regards would give, and you can't rush it. Even getting the 800 gold executioner's calling is a pretty large delay on the items you actually need early. Morellonomicon can and often should be rushed, and it is strong by itself without regards to grievous wounds in a way that Mortal Remainder isn't, so it can't be as specialized for grievous wounds. There is also the argument that mages will apply Grievous Wounds to backliners easier because they have more access to AoE and long range spells, while an ADC won't get a chance to autoattack the back line, so their version of grievous wounds has to reflect that.

Unjust.

One could argue that it is "unjust" that mages get grievous wounds on an item that isn't strictly inferior to another item.

Linna ExcelJul 9, 20161 votes

Soraka

67chromeJul 10, 20161 votes

Why is Grevious wounds so much better and more accessible to ADC than APC/Tanks?

I'm not sure I'd call item 3123 item 3033 much better and more accessible than item 3165 summoner 14 .

item 3036 is a much better item than Mortal Reminder in terms of raw DPS and tank-busting capabilities. Armor penetrations also got nerffed pretty heavily this season, making Lord Dominik's and another armor pen item pretty much mandatory to just deal with tanky shinnanigans.

On the other side: morellonomicon offers GW for free and fits in a wide range of AP builds pretty easily. It offers a good mix of stats, and with GW: it can apply that in a massive area-effect on the back of abilities with 1500 range. Essentially, no risk, decent reward.

As for tanks: item 3075 will negate essentially all life-steal based sustain and then some against the user with how the return damage works. Not the most elegant solution, but then again: the AD and AP choices aren't either.

Beyond that: most life-steal and spell-vamp-esque sustain is based directly off the damage dealt. If a skill heals the user for 10% of the damage dealt and does 500 damage, it heals 50 HP. If that skill is mitigated to 100 damage because of armor or magic resistance, it only restores 10 HP.

Why is Grevious wounds so much better and more accessible to ADC than APC/Tanks?

The capacity to counter sustain within HP, AD, and AP paths is pretty equal IMO. Tanks don't really need GW to combat most forms of sustain, and everyone having limitations adds more strategic depth and intrigue to the game than just allowing everyone to homogenize into the same extremely generic position.