No, pointing out things in Yasuo or Lee Sin's kits does not change the fact that Mundo and Hecarim need nerfs
Yes, Lee Sin and Yasuo can be problems in addition to Mundo and Hecarim
No, Mundo and Hecarim are not the only champions that need nerfs
Yes, Lee Sin has been a top competitive pick for awhile
No, endlessly circlejerking about this and downvoting my posts in this thread don't change the fact that Hecarim and Mundo need to be toned down
Have a nice day
Nilok39 votesMundo, possibly, but Hecarim is actually in a fairly solid place right now. He is slightly strong, but not a big enough outlier to warrant attention over more egregious champions.
FalconPawwwwnch13 votesHecarim has a 54% win rate in Diamond fyi
Fadedpf8 votesAnd what about 
his winrate in all elos is stupidly high.. at least Hec requires more skill to play and win with often
FalconPawwwwnch33 votesBrand is broken too
Guess who's getting nerfed on PBE?
Brand
Next
Fadedpf4 votesLove tap nerf if you ask me, would like some of his damage reduced...
Haunt14 votesLove tap nerf if you ask me, would like some of his damage reduced...
At least he'll have to actually think twice before spamming w on you 24/7. His support game is way too good, and his mid lane game is also insane.
SpecterVonBaren26 votesNo one plays support Brand, there is only AP carry mid Brand and AP carry bot Brand.
A Miss Fortune13 votesOr those reallllly weird AP Bruiser Brand Jungle players who never say anything all game.
A Miss Fortune6 votesBrand isn't broken, he just got pushed over the edge with his hypersynergy with Deathfire Touch. I think they're nerfing him in the right direction though so he can't just spam his pillar with no thought.
Haunt12 votesAnd what about
Brand is getting nerfs because Riot realizes he's stupid broken
Mundo and Hecarim are getting a whole pile of nothing meaningful done to them
Smitty Manjensen4 votesBrand is getting nerfs because Riot realizes he's stupid broken
Mundo and Hecarim are getting a whole pile of nothing meaningful done to them
Removing the ignore unit collision from Hecarim is definitely something, that will hurt as the creep block is unbearable.
Secretlolz1 votesWhat Sophita said, plus, why should Hecarim be able to avoid unit collision? Honestly I feel It's a change that just makes sense. One of the things about playing large champions is that they have less maneuverability than small ones around things, and Hecarim is fucking huge. Minions shouldn't just be ignored all the time, they are a core part of the game after all.
Solitair4 votesHave you looked at his kit? Hecarim's identity and the flow of his kit rely on his mobility. It's sad to see that go even though I , personally, would not be too affected by it because I only play Hecarim jungle.
LordKentravyon2 votesYes small champions are nimble and large ones tend to be less maneuverable but Hecarims identity is the stampeding war pony that tramples all in his path.
Stomping over minions made sense.
I would have prefered seeing a nerf somewhere else
Fadedpf10 votesI am more of a nerf Vayne and Ahri circle jerker. But the Hecarim hp nerfs are not needed, if they go through with the deadmans nerf along with the HP nerfs he will have 200 HP less which is very big.
Pierce The Veal6 votesI am more of a nerf Vayne and Ahri circle jerker. But the Hecarim hp nerfs are not needed, if they go through with the deadmans nerf along with the HP nerfs he will have 200 HP less which is very big.
Honestly, if they wanted to nerf hecarim's lane, they could have just nerfed or even removed the healing he gets off of non monster minions.
Or they could have made it so that hitting regular minions doesn't reduce the cooldown of his q, so he actually has to commit to a fight to spam it.
But instead they nerf his lategame, which is one of the things he was best known for, and they remove his passive, which gave him his niche in toplane.
And there are no compensation buffs in sight.
Fadedpf1 votesExactly. That brand "nerf" though.
Pierce The Veal1 votesExactly. That brand "nerf" though.
Lol I'm sure the Brand's enemies will be happy that it cost him 20 mana more to instantly kill their team.
Abyssphere3 votesLol I'm sure the Brand's enemies will be happy that it cost him 20 mana more to instantly kill their team.
You say that as a joke but it's actually significant. One of Brand mid's strong points is not having to buy a mana item, allowing him to go straight into Liandry's and Rylai's for an insane mid game spike that most mids can't compete with. If this mana nerf is significant enough it'll force him into starting Morellonomicon, which will delay his spike by a whole 2550 gold. That's a big deal.
maikokk3 votes100% agree, except i would go further and say that his passive is most of the reason why half the players bought him. its exceptionally thematic and and functional and has a noticeable feel-good effect. unlike its counterparts on kassadin and fizz. what good is his q without his passive? its a mere farm tool without it. replacing the attack move for q's were what really made him stick after combos. now we are supposed to attack move?
Troy2426219 votesOf course some champions causing problems doesn't make other champions being too strong O.K.
However, it does strike me as odd that they would address these two first. Perhaps it's because the solution is simply more straight-forward, but I can't really speak for Riot.
Lost In Time7 votesHecarim is always bullshit. He receives love-taps and everyone screams "HE WAS GUTTED" then flies under the radar for another 6 months.
Mundo is a consequence of many buffs over several patches and then BotKR nerfs. Mortal Reminder does virtually jackshit to him, sorry guys. I built it, he still recovered full HP from being almost dead.
But while we're "trimming excess power" from Hecarim's kit (lol), and seeing Lee Sin being mentioned in this thread, can we remove the stun from the start AND the end of Dragon's Rage?
Anidan5 votesWhy does it matter that he has it? It's just there to keep his aim from being extremely awkward on the kick. It's an extremely short stun.
I like how nobody cared or knew about this stun, but as soon as it's brought up it suddenly has to be removed, like that'd be the silver bullet. The stun is there for a bit of QoL for Lee, with very little actual practical usage other than making it so his kick isn't horribly awkward to use.
Hit shit on Lee that actually needs to be hit, not QoL stuff on him.
Lost In Time5 votesBecause you're inable to use your CC back at him at the start. And then he lands the easiest Q after because you're still stuck there after the animation.
Honestly, Lee isn't even that bad to play against in Plat. He's popular but everyone knows how to play around him
Baron of Bread3 votesIf Mundo recovered to full from nearly dead then something has gone wrong, such as you not auto attacking him or something. With Grievous wounds on him he won't heal for even half his hp from his ult. Mortal Reminder cuts his health gain over 8 seconds from 58% (Undying grasp, ult, passive, spirit visage) to 35% of max HP. If he had 4000 max HP that is a difference of 900 HP which is quite a bit.
Mortal Reminder does quite a bit to Mundo but he will still be hard to kill (and will still need some nerfs).
Lost In Time2 votesI was Vayne.
I autoed him to 15% health
He ulted, with GW on him.
He ran around the fight with Spirit Visage and Warmogs and got back up to full.
Mortal Reminder does not do enough when it's only cutting his healing by 40%.
And the worst part is, he still did damage thanks to his E and Q % HP scaling. He was a massive damage threat and damage sponge. You could not ignore him but if you focussed him, you're wasting your time.
NahDogSolRahn4 votes[{quoted}](name=Lost In Time,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4UEuEo2x,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2015-12-02T09:28:25.128+0000)
I was Vayne.
I autoed him to 15% health
He ulted, with GW on him.
He ran around the fight with Spirit Visage and Warmogs and got back up to full.
Mortal Reminder does not do enough when it's only cutting his healing by 40%.
And the worst part is, he still did damage thanks to his E and Q % HP scaling. He was a massive damage threat and damage sponge. You could not ignore him but if you focussed him, you're wasting your time.
Warmogs kicks in at 8 seconds after damage, that means that you or your teammates didn't hit him for that 8+ seconds. Yes, Mundo is a bit strong right now, but the fact of the matter is, you and your team failed to keep Reminder's debuff on him once he hit ult. Even if Warmogs heart didn't kick in, it's still on you. As a Hec jg main, during the preseason, ive seen Mortal Reminder all of five times, and twice were on me. LDR is seven times, three times on me, once as Hec too.
Lost In Time2 votesHis ultimate lasts 12 seconds.
MR lasts 5 seconds.
I auto'd him several times
Over half the duration he was GV, so how in the fuck are you sitting here telling me that "we failed to keep the mark on him" when I'm literally telling you he was in combat and managed to recover almost all his HP despite the mark. GV doesn't nullifying healing, it only reduces it and they nerfed that aspect.
And are you going to pretend the fact that Sadism doesn't give him a massive "fuck you" speed boost anyways, should he choose to regen instead?
Baron of Bread4 votesWe are telling you that you failed to keep the mark on him because that is the only plausible explanation for the situation you described other than that there was a source of healing that you hadn't yet mentioned. Mundo simply could not heal that much if you did keep the GW on him. Over 12 seconds he could have healed a maximum of 52% Max HP if he had GW applied the whole time.
The math shows that there must be something off with either your description of the events or the code of the game (or the math but I can and have checked that). We are not saying that Mundo is balanced; if your description of the events is accurate then there must be a bug in the game related to Mundo's healing or GW.
Jasiwel7 votesThey can nerf Hec if they feel the need to, but their approach is not adequate in my opinion.
Removing his "ignore collision" passive and binding it to his E Active will just make him super clunky in lane to play. I'd rather they nerf his damage output a bit than remove his entire theme of "Ghost Horse".
Remlap12235 votesRemoving his "ignore collision" passive and binding it to his E Active will just make him super clunky in lane to play.
That's the idea. Lane Hecarim has historically been extremely toxic, much like Zac and Alistar.
I dislike that they can't nerf Hecarim meaningfully without nerfing his quality of life, but Hecarim can not be balanced as a top laner with his kit the way it is, just like Janna couldn't be balanced as an AP mid, and Alistar couldn't be balanced as a jungler.
Photos of Ghosts1 votesCan't they just have his Q deal less damage if it hits several targets?
BluePolarizer2 votesI don't get it. His Q is inferior to old Darius Q. His E is a generic speed-up. His W is a generic heal. I see nothing imbalanced in it. Tryndamere literally has everything in his kit better for top lane, is 100x more aggravating to play against since he literally cheats death, yet you're saying top lane Hecarim, is extremely toxic. Wow. I'm at a loss for words.
UrPalAl2 votes[deleted]
Malicious Metal5 votesI do D:
Tannhäuser Gate4 votesI think you need better champion picking powers. All of your favorites get reworked or nerfed.
/s
EcchiOtakuTM6 votesMeh I still feel it's cause most of the playerbase refuses to buy executioner calling why mundo got out of hand, and riot shouldn't nerf hecarim's passive then on top of it lower his hp
Irelia Bot3 votesMeh I still feel it's cause most of the playerbase refuses to buy executioner calling why mundo got out of hand, and riot shouldn't nerf hecarim's passive then on top of it lower his hp
Actually it is more because tanks now have their base armor untouched by LW items. having that 86 base armor always there compared to it being reduced by 35% before 5.22 making it 51.84 dues have an impact.
Add in the weaker BotRK, masteries and you have some potential problems that might arise.
EcchiOtakuTM5 votesStill doesn't change people not buying an 800g item that renders self-sustainers useless, I know it's gimped but it's still better than nothing....
Had a mundo getting fed 4 kills so i figured as soon as lane phase is over im rushing executioner blade, mundo was simple to deal with allowing us to actually fight. I actually like that riot is only nerfing his early game and leaving his late game intact cause executioner does counter him but noone wants to buy it early.
Irelia Bot7 votesIF you think it makes them useless then you are a fool.
It is suppose to be a reasonable counter not a be all end all of self healers that makes them useless.
BluePolarizer4 votesIf it beats Jax, it must be OP.
Of course I never hear you call for Rageblade nerfs or for the recognition that Jax has gotten nothing but direct and indirect buffs to both his lane and jungle. And for what? For getting the exact same base stat nerfs that Hecarim is getting which, as you said, gutted Jax.
FalconPawwwwnch6 votesNice Ad hominem
Rageblade isn't even a problem now
Dumbest things in the game atm are champs who can easily abuse fervor of battle, grasp of the undying, and deathfire touch
If you noticed, Riot is tackling all those things at once next patch in some form
Nice try though
BluePolarizer14 voteslmao 300 gold... Rageblade went from 200% gold efficient to merely 180% gold efficient. I'm sure it will make a huge difference, almost as big as 3 AD on Vayne or 20 mana on Brand. hahahahaha
ShadowParker6 votesYou underestimate how big of a nerf -3 ad actually did to Vayne.
Sir Yamazuki5 votesYou underestimate how big of a nerf -3 ad actually did to Vayne.
Yeah, totally explains why she's still doing extremely well.
Rebonack7 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4UEuEo2x,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-02T05:42:22.957+0000)
Yeah, totally explains why she's still doing extremely well.
It dropped her pretty significantly before the preseason patch.
The addition of stacking Energize items, however, rocketed her right back up again.
Anidan5 votesYou mean she isn't going to shine with the Energized items and a tank-dominated meta?
You're literally handing her a gun in Medieval Europe. She's going to run off and wreck shit because that's what you do in that situation. 3 AD actually hurts her a bit, as did the loss of base true damage. However, everything else is lined up in her favor because Rito balance. She wouldn't be so crazy if the stars didn't align for her this time.
UrPalAl9 votesThe 3 AD nerf actually hit Vayne pretty damn hard. If it takes like 10 auto's (example) for vayne to kill you, and every auto does 75 she will deal 750 AD damage (not including armor mitigation). Post nerf, every auto now deals 72, and she will deal 720 damage. Her target will now live with 30 HP.
Now think of how many times that you've survived with under 50 HP.
Exactly.
Kuroi863 votesYes, Lee Sin has been a top competitive pick for awhile
Outside of LCS though, Lee was considered a second or even third tier jungler this past season. Now Riot gives him a useless ult buff and a decent passive buff to get him back into favor and people freak out as if he never left God tier.
Ulquiorra9955 votesPeople don't freak out because he was buffed to get back into favor. People freak out because, of all champions who actually need help, some of which got overnerfed specifically because they were in favor for a while, buffs (and unneeded ones at that) go to the one who never leaves the spotlight, has incredibly frustrating kit to play against and constantly sports one of highest pickrates in game. Seriously, anyone not playing Lee is sick of him after years of constantly seeing him both in esports and their own games. And when next to people like Aatrox who are kept in the trash can for long Lee gets buff after few patches of not being number one pick of course people will get pissed off.