Why are we nerfing his damage again ?
Reminds me of Ornn,everyone was asking to nerf his damage and you took out his unstoppable phase from W...and lowered some defense numbers..
Sujiren18 votesThe actual problem is him not running out of mana due to inspiration tbh.
His base numbers are definetely too high though, when building straight tank Similar case to tank Ekko or Bruiser / Tank Fizz in the past.
Nerfing his base damage and upping his ap scalings would probably fix him to force him to build AP if he wants to do.damage.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesHe isn't nearly as oppressive nor abusive as tank ekko/fizz though. Sure he can still kite & poke if he's good, but most melees with sudden gap closers can ignore his CC; the other two could outright deny being punished at all while dealing more damage without mana concerns.
Lil Homie busta3 votesOnce T.W. Potion gets gutted, this issue will be solved.
Paroe2 votesThe actual problem is him not running out of mana due to inspiration tbh.
His base numbers are definetely too high though, when building straight tank Similar case to tank Ekko or Bruiser / Tank Fizz in the past.
Nerfing his base damage and upping his ap scalings would probably fix him to force him to build AP if he wants to do.damage.
Can you show me this supposed "FULL TANK" build?
Everyone keeps claiming IBG viktor builds full tank and still maintains a presence, but to my knowledge 
and 
are his "tank" items - and two items does not a tank make.
Votable Jester2 votesHe's not so much a tank as a ranged bruiser with tons of aoe cc and damage. Those two items plus constant shield from his Q (which has 30% CDR from those two items alone btw) makes him pretty durable, and his movement speed boost and cc make him incredible good at kiting and chasing people down.
Paroe2 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4UENoTpQ,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-11-01T02:02:35.618+0000)
He's not so much a tank as a ranged bruiser with tons of aoe cc and damage. Those two items plus constant shield from his Q (which has 30% CDR from those two items alone btw) makes him pretty durable, and his movement speed boost and cc make him incredible good at kiting and chasing people down.
Battle mages are the bruisers of the mage class.
They have low mobility and are categorized by their strong sustained damage and above average waveclear.
A bruiser is not a tank, a battle mage is not a tank, and claiming that + MAKES a battle mage a tank is not only wrong, its alarmist agenda pushing.
Votable Jester1 votesI mean I agreed with you, I said specifically that he isn't really a tank so much as a ranged bruiser. I'd still say that Viktor with that build is a bit different from a battle mage as it has moderate mobility and much more consistent/strong cc than other battle mages tend to have.
Really it's just another melee abuser that's still able to do moderately well against ranged opponents.
Z3Sleeper2 votesBattle Mages are actually the Skirmishers and Bruisers of the Mage class.
Not every Battle Mage is Rumble. Heck, Rumble is the only Bruiser Battle Mage. Swain and Viktor are Skirmisher Battle Mages. Aka not as tanky, not as much frontloaded damage but more utility and range.
Paroe1 votesBattle Mages are actually the Skirmishers and Bruisers of the Mage class.
Not every Battle Mage is Rumble. Heck, Rumble is the only Bruiser Battle Mage. Swain and Viktor are Skirmisher Battle Mages. Aka not as tanky, not as much frontloaded damage but more utility and range.
... Skirmishers would be people like Ekko and LB, as skirmishers are by definition burst champions who weave in and out of combat.
Battle mages have medium range and more sustained damage than burst; Cass's fangs, VIktors Q, Ryze's Q, Swains force lightning, Karthus Q, Malzahars E, etc.
Z3Sleeper2 votesAhem, to quote the official definition:
Because Skirmishers lack high-end burst damage or reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets, they are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, along with extreme sustained damage to cut down even the most durable targets.
Z3Sleeper2 votes"Tank" Viktor = "Tanky" Viktor
Xeronic3 votesThe actual problem is him not running out of mana due to inspiration tbh.
His base numbers are definetely too high though, when building straight tank Similar case to tank Ekko or Bruiser / Tank Fizz in the past.
Nerfing his base damage and upping his ap scalings would probably fix him to force him to build AP if he wants to do.damage.
Except now he needs up to 400 ap to make up for the lost Q damage, and 150->350->550 AP to make up for the lost ult damage. This change is terrible. Nerfs Viktor Top yeah, but also nerfs Viktor mid since he has no problems in the late game, but is god awful in the early game.
Moody P10 votesbecause his base damage for running multiple tank items is ridiculous
Cronofuge9 votesYeah as obnoxious as him being uncatchable is, the real problem is that he also deals damage while doing so. So he needs to either not be uncatchable, or not deal damage.
I thought people were complaining about riot NOT addressing damage issues and the second they start addressing it, somebody complains.
Lil Homie busta1 votesYeah, complains will always exist. What matters is if it has solid base. I don't think decreasing his base damage and increasing his scalling is a bad change, it virtually doesn't hurt mid Viktor, he should be fine.
Velzard of Koz4 votesThey are literally nerfing his base damage and buffing his AP ratios. That is the no-brainer classical attempt to nerf tank build while not hurting damage build. Maybe not optimal solution, but it adresses exactly the aspect that he builds tank. If they nerfed his MS/Shield they would randomly nerf AP Viktor Mid just because some people play him Tank Top. Doesn't that sound dumb to you? Because it would to people who weren't abusing him top but have their champ nerfed because of those who did.
Illabethe3 votesExcept he does insane damage as a tank.... more than an AP build, because he cannot be dived or ran away from. It allows him to damn near 100% utilize his R, without it ever slowing down, and you can't escape his Gravity field either.
On The AP build, W and R work together to kill someone. He needs one to effectively use the other.
On Tank build, he can separate them out, and use items to make them both work separately, because does the work for him.
BestPudgeNA2 votesHe is the new "The Fast" replaced Jhin.
Why are we nerfing his damage again ?
Reminds me of Ornn,everyone was asking to nerf his damage and you took out his unstoppable phase from W...and lowered some defense numbers..
Riot has this disgusting fetish for not addressing a champs issues and instead doing nerfs that are also buffs to something irrelevant to what is making a champ broken
Bârd3 votesAP Viktor is underwhelming right now, while Tank Viktor is overpowered.
Tank Viktor needs nerfs, while AP Viktor needs a little love.
The answer here is not "take a sledge hammer to the champion". Just get rid of his ability to deal damage with a tank build.
The speed and kiting potential of the Q build is appropriate if VIktor himself is frail and late-game oriented. its only when you see Viktor building things like IBG and being a early-midgame powerhouse that it's absurd.
BestPudgeNA3 votesAP Viktor is underwhelming right now, while Tank Viktor is overpowered.
Tank Viktor needs nerfs, while AP Viktor needs a little love.
The answer here is not "take a sledge hammer to the champion". Just get rid of his ability to deal damage with a tank build.
The speed and kiting potential of the Q build is appropriate if VIktor himself is frail and late-game oriented. its only when you see Viktor building things like IBG and being a early-midgame powerhouse that it's absurd.
These are massive nerfs to AP Viktor though. He needs like 3 items+ before these become buffs in terms of damage which makes AP Mid Viktors already weak laning phase worse
It's also not really "Tank" Viktor it's kitting lane bully Viktor and these nerfs are basically irrelevant for him because he doesn't need to get kills in lane phase he will out CS and uses Klepto to gain massive gold advantages without even needing kills. He needs to be killable so he can't just free farm in lane and scale easily into the powerhouse late game champ that he is and will still be.
They needed to buff his E and nerf his base MS, nerf the MS% boost and his shield scaling rather then Powershift his Q&R base dmg and AP scaling.
Z3Sleeper1 votesThese are massive nerfs to AP Viktor though. He needs like 3 items+ before these become buffs in terms of damage which makes AP Mid Viktors already weak laning phase worse
AP Viktor maxes E in lane, not Q. His Q isn't maxed until level 12 and his second point into it doesn't happen until level 9.
Essentially, this does nothing to AP Viktor until level 9. After that it takes 100 AP per level past level 8 to make up for the difference in base damage up to level 12.
Due to Viktor having Hexcore, he already has 120 AP (if maxed). At level 12 you typically have around 6k-8k gold, minus 3k for Hex. So the other 3k-5k is in other AP items. Let's say he got a lower value AP defensive item such as Zhonya (75 AP). That's still 195 AP which amounts to 9.75 bonus damage from the ratio buff.
In total, AP Viktor is losing out on a potential grand total of 10 damage on his Q at level 12, less for levels 9 - 11, and none for levels 1-8 and then gains more at some point past level 12.
Pika Fox2 votesTheyre swapping some damage to AP ratio, likely to differentiate the two builds and so viktor has to take a harder look at the new passive stat runes and cant just grab resists and chill.
Z3Sleeper2 votesHis damage without AP is irrefutably too high. It's several factors that contribute to it:
So instead of nerfing 1, 2 or 4 that affect AP Viktor, nerfng 3 (the damage) instead is the obvious choice.
They even buffed the AP ratio to compensate. That is a 100% perfectly fine solution since AP Viktor maxes Q after E and the level 1 Q damage is unchanged.
Sire Hippington2 votesKlepto and T.W. Potion get adressed in preseason, so 4. is covered aswell
Noor Sakata1 votesThey nerfed his base damage , I think only the tank part
So this shouldn't really affect his AP , probably nerfed his early and buffed late , not sure about numbers
Modl Ryden l1 votesBeing able to consistently and safely proc Kleptomancy into more 
s is one of the major problems. For one, his Q is 65 mana on a 2.4 sec cooldown with max CDR, where that CDR comes from is which gives him a big pool of mana to spam from, effectively netting him positive in every Klepto proc. With Ezreal however, if he misses his Q he is not guaranteed a safety net of movement boosts or a shield when trying to proc Klepto himself, despite both having the same basic attack range. Viktor on the other, doesn't need to rely on hitting champs with his Q, except for the auto attack buff that comes with it. It cannot miss unless it's dodged, parried, blocked, or if he was blinded. All the while taking 0 damage in any exchange and leaving the enemy at arms reach with the frost zone left by Iceborn.
Really I think he's fine in terms of damage, but if they want to allow this to be a thing then they should really consider lowering his attack range by 50 to 75 units. Like he needs it.
Somebody Love Me1 votesI think they're trying to hit it the same way they hit tank Ekko
Nerf base damage buff scaling
Vaptr1 votesonce Victor burst me to death with E Q R ignite lvl 8 while running a frozen heart and ninja-tabi, I knew something went terribly wrong...
FelixFurry1 votes(For Context) [AS OF 11/1/18]
Viktor
- Siphon Power (Q)
- Discharge Damage lowered from 20/50/80/110/140 to 20/45/70/95/120
- Discharge AP ratio increased from 50% to 55%
- Chaos Storm (R)
- Discharge damage lowered from 150/250/350 to 130/210/290
- Discharge AP ratio increased from 70% to 85%
It doesn't seem like they are nerfing him as much as they are just shifting him to scale with AP more than just his base damage. By going his current meta build, he isn't going for AP, so Riot is incentivizing people to move to going AP instead. They tried to do this with 
Pyke a couple of months back by taking away his base damage and moving his AD ratios higher as to not have tank Pyke be a thing. Hopefully it will fix part of the issue with top 
Viktor, but then again, Iceborn Gauntlet has problems of it's own that need to be addressed.
