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The end year bruiser patch needs to contain

Rexxiee··21 votes·1,099 views

Nerfs to ornn, maokai, cho and shen and i mean real nerfs not 5 base damage off, all those champs need to be made weak early game so they actually have a weakness in some stage of the game (specially cho, whos a hyper scaling tank that actually beats bruisers in 1v1 with his E), ornn and maokai are just better than like every bruiser at every stage of the game, TANKS NEED TO LOSE 1v1 TO BRUISERS early game or there is NO POINT in ever playing as bruiser as they are already worse in scaling and team fights.

Nerfs to support itemization, basically nerfs to locket (item needs to be trashed, its far too broken) and possibly again to knights vow/redemption, peel items completely invalidate bruisers and they are so god damn cheap that it makes it impossible for bruisers to ever do anything outside of split pushing.

Nerfs to jayce and pantheon (uninteractive lanes that just auto win, not interesting to play against), possibly to teemo (dont think he needs it if bruisers get buffed instead).

And now, instead of making every bruiser broken with direct buffs and powercreeping the game, to make them better :

Revert all the BC nerfs, basically shred back to 30%, cost down 100g, recipe back to warhammer + phage and stats back to 55 AD and 300 health (bruisers need more damage to deal with hyper tanks, replace dark harvest in domination tree for something thats similar to old fervor, or just straight up make a bruiser tree (every role but them have a tree).

And of course, after next patch hopefully the sunfire buffs (if that atrocity even goes live) get hotfixed as ornn and maokai and tanks are going to get even stronger, this is the pre-nerf god tier sunfire cape that they are bringing back while tanks are already overpowered as shit top lane AND NOBODY HAS 12 EXTRA MR ANYMORE, so it does EVEN MORE DMG THAN BEFORE!

33 Comments

Critmaster Garen13 votes

{quoted}

recipe back to warhammer + phage

no. this would only make this item get picked up more on adc again.

the health focused recipe is fine for bruisers.

Ralanr1 votes

That and warhammer makes it great for Riven again more than other bruisers.

Holds back bias stick

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

That and warhammer makes it great for Riven again more than other bruisers.

Holds back bias stick

ye. as if the health is bad on riven. its not optimal, but she doesnt have to rush it.

Rexxiee1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4M0xWxa7,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-02T21:11:57.793+0000)

ye. as if the health is bad on riven. its not optimal, but she doesnt have to rush it.

40 ad is too little on a 3k gold item without fervor.

Bruisers are lackign damage to even threat to kill those tanks, thats why i was saying it could use more AD.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

40 ad is too little on a 3k gold item without fervor.

Bruisers are lackign damage to even threat to kill those tanks, thats why i was saying it could use more AD.

so instead of tuning riven, you want to nerf an item for a bunch of brusiers and have it built on adc again?

a lot of bruisers want the extra health, and the other couple who take it dont care either way.

its really only riven and fiora who want more ad.

Zero Skill Tank5 votes

TANKS NEED TO LOSE 1v1 TO BRUISERS early game or there is NO POINT in ever playing as bruiser as they are already worse in scaling and team fights.

Bruisers scale way better at splitpush. The real problem in bruisers vs tank matchups is that junglers are strong enough that splitpushing is extremely hard.

Bruisers top don't need to win early game against tanks, as long as they quickly outscale them at dueling (the way tanks quickly outscale them at teamfighting). They just need a chance to actually have effect at splitpushing.

I'm not saying that tanks don't have too easy time against bruisers now, just that in a normal meta when splitpushing is possible losing lane vs a tank is fine for them, because after 1/1.5 items they will outduel them anyway.

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

let me see you do that with bramble vest

THE RlVER KlNG4 votes

you realize those BC reverts will just make it strong on ADCs again and give bruiser mains more things to complain about

the path is fine as it is and it does not need buffs. it's mandatory on a ton of champs and serves as a suitable powerspike, same with triforce.

ornn doesn't need damage nerfs. his w range needs to be a lot smaller and brittle to last a second or so less; it shouldnt have 100% uptime with cdr in melee range, an increase to his ult cooldown would suffice as well or otherwise reintroduce the delay on the headbutt. if that still doesn't work increase e and w cooldowns. ornn's combo and w usage needs to be reliable for him to function but currently his endless brittle procs make him impossible to fight. toning down his access to 4+ procs within a short time frame will make him more fair.

maokai needs to not be able to cc lock you for upwards of 4 seconds. shen is fine he's basically a fighter anyway he just doesn't have scaling and so is allowed to build full tank.

yah bruisers aren't in the best spot but you can't just systematically nerf everything holding them back and expect that to solve everything. BRUISERS NEED TO WIN LANE AGAINST NOT ONLY TANKS BUT ALSO RANGED CARRIES AND ALSO THEY NEED TO HAVE THE BEST ITEMIZATION AND TARGET SELECTION AND NO COUNTER ITEMS. THEY SHOULD WIN LANE EARLY, HAVE THE BEST TEAMFIGHTS MID AND ALSO SCALE AS HARD AS ADCS LATE THIS WILL MAKE THE GAME BETTER. no particular top lane fighter necessarily needs buffs. a certain few top lane tanks and obnoxious matchups like pantheon and jayce need to be toned down, and adcs need to be completely shut down and nerfed across the board. bruisers themselves (kled, fiora, jax, juggs, camille, riven, etc) are fine the meta is just complete shit. press the attack should be heavily changed or nerfed and shifted away from bruisers, who need their own functioning keystone within precision or domination. that would be the best way to buff them overall.

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

JESUS CHRIST THEN MAKE IT A MEELEE ONLY ITEM DUHHHHHHHH

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

and fuck over urgot once again?

i think not. if adcs or ranged adc casters want to build bc they should be allowed, it just shouldn't be optimal.

the only item that should have been melee only from the start is steraks. melees can't have a monopoly on ad items.

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

Dude the guy kills anyone at 25% hp. I would throw away black cleacer on riven for that. Thats what ive done anyways seeing that the item is as good as a wet sponge.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

after having a telegraphed engage and having to land a skillshot, whilst also bringing you under that threshold within 4 seconds

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

U make it sound super hard but its super easy he has no counterpick aside from like fucking teemo and i dont even know if thats true, The guy has no counterpicks and i dont mean build 5000k armor counterpicks i mean someone whos able to deny/kill you in lane. Also what counterplay does he have? a shield, slow, disengage/ingage, tankieness, guaranteed execute, and on top of that he's ranged hes like jayce but really tanky and we all know how fun and balanced jayce is :) ooh wait jayce doesnt even have a shield.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

counterpicks? fiora, darius, renekton, tahm all do pretty well into him. so does jayce. urgot loses trades if he misses e unless he can lock on. he's strong and useable but he's not overpowered.

he barely counts as ranged he has a 300 attack range. that's smaller than the range of irelia e.

meowwow73 votes

except for ornn the other 3 champs counter your main riven and also notice that everyone of these tanks have % max hp magic damage now if i were a bruiser in those situations i would most likely build 1 of these 2 items atleast item 3156 item 3139 and if that's not enough to deal with tanks and their magic damage you can go nullification orb on your secondary tree

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

Actually ornn counters riven super hard now, i think he counters every meelee tbh.

Elkington2 votes

They need to return %dmg reduction to the defensive tree, instead of the crappy keystones we have now. That or some adaptive resistances, like how the offensive trees have adaptive damage and/or % based increases.

I'm even starting to see marksmen and assassin teams dominate on TT/3v3, which has historically been a bruiser-centric map. This might be the worst state tanky dps have been in the entire history of LoL.

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

They need to return %dmg reduction to the defensive tree, instead of the crappy keystones we have now. That or some adaptive resistances, like how the offensive trees have adaptive damage and/or % based increases.

I'm even starting to see marksmen and assassin teams dominate on TT/3v3, which has historically been a bruiser-centric map. This might be the worst state tanky dps have been in the entire history of LoL.

That would make tanks even stronger, so no.

Salamencę2 votes

Buff Darius dammit

Jbels2 votes

You know they killed Bramble Bami's right? They are changing a tank's powerspike from two item components to one actual full item. If anything, that hurts tanks early on because they won't be able to trade as well against fighters like Fiora or Renekton, like we shouldn't be able to do. In addition to that, damage nerfs are already on PBE for Maokai and Ornn. I swear to god, nobody will be satisfied with this game until tanks are useless at all stages of the game.

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

You know they killed Bramble Bami's right? They are changing a tank's powerspike from two item components to one actual full item. If anything, that hurts tanks early on because they won't be able to trade as well against fighters like Fiora or Renekton, like we shouldn't be able to do. In addition to that, damage nerfs are already on PBE for Maokai and Ornn. I swear to god, nobody will be satisfied with this game until tanks are useless at all stages of the game.

So?

Maokai and orrn win lanes with tabi, hell they even do it while rushing righteous glory, they dont even need bramble vest to faceroll everyone melee, thats how broken they are.

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

So?

Maokai and orrn win lanes with tabi, hell they even do it while rushing righteous glory, they dont even need bramble vest to faceroll everyone melee, thats how broken they are.

So then we just need to give bruisers every buff they can possibly get and just nerf tanks until they do nothing? Reverting cleaver on top of the shit load of buffs that bruisers are most likely getting in this patch is not the way to go.

Edit: Oh my god this is literally only because these champions counter Riven. Are you serious? Miss me with this biased shit.

Rexxiee1 votes

{quoted}

So then we just need to give bruisers every buff they can possibly get and just nerf tanks until they do nothing? Reverting cleaver on top of the shit load of buffs that bruisers are most likely getting in this patch is not the way to go.

Edit: Oh my god this is literally only because these champions counter Riven. Are you serious? Miss me with this biased shit.

They counter EVERYONE that is melee and goes top lane.

Darius for example is at 46% and hes actually LOSING to tanks in lane, something that should NOT be happening.

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

They counter EVERYONE that is melee and goes top lane.

Darius for example is at 46% and hes actually LOSING to tanks in lane, something that should NOT be happening.

Bull fucking shit. Three of the highest winrate fighters right now are Yorick, Pantheon, and Olaf. All of whom either go even with, or straight up beat Ornn and Maokai. I spared Sion because I know you meant everyone who is a melee FIGHTER and not straight up everyone who is a melee champion.

Meanwhile, you've gone on a rampage on the boards, rallying your heart out for the bruiser cause and speaking out against Ornn and Maokai in every thread. I'll say it again. Miss me with your biased shit.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

XD Do we even need to talk about panth? Do you know ANYTHING about the problem toplane? Yeah panth is one of em. Are you actually taking olaf having a high winrate with literal ONE only ONE PERCENT pickrate as a point that bruisers are fine? OLAF WITH COMET. A bruiser who is only good with ONE broken keystone that doesn't even do ANYTHING for his playstyle or anything else out of laning phase.

Well you can't be biased because you have literally zero clue what you are talking about.

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

dude isnt that obious why their all broken af to. phantoen aery spamm is to strong yorick with his ultimate splitpushing herland techniqe and olaf takes no cc.

Penns1 votes

Tanks busted? Buff frozen heart Buff Sunfire later too imo, and of course ornn again LEL!

better rework fizz too for no counterplay :)

woodvsmurph1 votes

Cleaver could use it's %armor shred restored, otherwise it's in an ok spot. The extra ad would be nice, but then they would definitely need to increase the price or it would be far too gold efficient. Moreover, it would then take far to long to complete cleaver... and it's components are not half as useful.

Pantheon doesn't need a nerf; he needs a rework to be more relevant, interactive, and fun at all stages of game for both him AND his opponents. He's supposed to be this scary melee fighter, but just sits at range hurling spears.

Jayce should get better scaling damage on his ranged e,q, combo because it falls off too hard. Before everyone freaks out and downvotes, I'd like to say that as compensation for that, he needs his damage removed or nerfed in melee form. He shouldn't win in both ranged AND melee forms while being able to disengage an opponent's only form of engage and then continue harassing them from range. Melee form should be purely focused on... restoring his mana and disengaging enemies; not on dealing damage. This would reward a GOOD jayce for landing e,q, combos. It would PUNISH a bad jayce for missing them and allow opponents who successfully engage jayce in melee form and avoid him disengaging them properly to punish jayce for this.

Support items... I think locket is a bit overly strong on users with high hp, but otherwise it's ok. Redemption is honestly just fine as far as I've seen lately. It's hardly the broken item it was when first released. Just a nice way for heal/shield supports to get some hp so they aren't quite so squishy.

Buff individual bruisers, fighters, divers, whatever you want to classify the different groups as... on an individual basis. Look at where they've traditionally been strong/weak and where they are intended to be strong/weak. Are they fulfilling that role as well as they used to? If not, what needs to change so they can fulfill that role and/or find a new role. Ex: how they turned poppy from awkward duelist(?) champ into a respectable cc heavy tank, how they turned gp from awkward (something...?) into hyperscaling full damage squishy.

Runes... we actually don't need a "fervor of battle" for bruisers. If they were at their proper natural power level, they could easily make use of other keystones just fine. Some of the new runes actually work very well with them.

Ex: say the enemy team doesn't force you to go flash on darius due to low burst damage toplaner and jg and no j4 ult to lock you in place. So you go ghost. Go with extra attack speed keystone for hitting someone for 1.5 sec. You can then easily run them down in lane with ghost at lvl 2-3, proc your passive quickly and stack aa's fast and snowball HARD. Or... you can do something like grasp for scaling damage and sustain. Since you would already win 1v1 early, keep yourself full hp while bullying your opponent whenever they leave tower. Fervor really isn't needed if other things were all in balance.

Shuriman Curator1 votes

What kind of Shen nerf fo you propose? Seeing that you hate tanks and are a Riven main I'd like to know.

ViresIntus721 votes

I dont even play Ornn but come on, the guys been through enough.

Anonagon1 votes

Add a longsword to the BC recipe instead of reverting it. It has the room in both the AD and gold cost for it, and would make building it smoother.

Tabi needs to have its passive value halved against melees, so that its still effective against Teemo/Gnar/Jayce but so that it doesn't absolutely kill the damage output of an unfed bruiser.

Combine these two changes with nerfs to the dominant tanks as well as Panth/Heimer/Akali and top lane will actually be fun again.

Aseraan1 votes

Hello ! Please tell me how are u going or want to balance those guys when so called "early game" ends at 10 min and the rest of the game is just a stompfest for one team.

Hey i will play a guy who will be usefull at 20 min out of a 30 min game............

Adrian is Daddy1 votes

Teemo is just Teemo He's been toxic champ but you know its teemo, no matter how obnoxious and annoying he is. He will always be the little devil of top lane .<3

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