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when did "balanced around "X" elo" start to mean "to hell with every other elo"

SwiftKitten88··1 votes·593 views

i started playing in season 3.. i have been active on the forums since at least season 4. and i am curious... WHEN did the game/champ "balanced around X elo" start to mean "It's going to be balance AT this elo and to hell with everyone else"

sure i don't have any problem with people saying the game should be balanced around gold/plat/ diamond.. or w/e you want. but that does NOT mean you get to screw over ANY other elo.

TLDR because when you say that "other elos dont matter because are are balancing around X" you just said "OTHER ELOS DON'T MATTER" so you want the game balanced around plat? so your "ok" with your main having a 50% win rate in plat.. a 89% win rate in challenger and a 28% win rate in bronze. becuase "to hell with other elos the game is balanced around my elo" ?? is that what your trying to tell me?

YES balanced around a certain elo means then BALANCE of a 50% AVERAGE occurs in THAT ELO.. it does NOT mean that ANY other elo is allows to drop into a completely unacceptable range. /TLDR at what point is something "completely unacceptable to you.

and honestly.. the answer is simple.. if YOU main that champion.. and YOU are in that elo. what is unacceptable to YOU? and if 55% is unacceptable to you then 45% should ALSO be unacceptable to you.

because if a champ has a say difference of 3% between bronze and challenger you can be at 50 % in plat and 51% in challenger and 49% in bronze and everything is great.. no problems and if that range is 51 % in bronze and 54% in challenger then the also is simple.. do a flat nerf to lower the winrate by 3%

but IF a champ has a i don't know maybe NINE PERCENT difference in elos and has a 54% win rate in challenger and a 46% win rate in bronze. then we have a problem.

because when people say "oh this champ is op it needs a nerf"

ok maybe it does.. but what it REALLY needs to a nerf at HIGHER elos and a BUFF at lower elos so it doesn't have a 9% difference

because i hate to point out the obvious.. (because i need to do it so damn often its getting really freaking annoying)

but IF you nerf the 54% win rate by 3% with a FLAT nerf with no compensation of any form. then that 46% win rate is GOING to drop.

so i ask you... at what point is a "winrate" unacceptable to you. you CLEARLY think 54% is unacceptable and needs major nerfs, and yet you are at the same time willing to say we can do this nerf KNOWING it is ALSO goign to drasticlyl reduce the winrate of 46% at this OTHER elo this champ has.

becuase if 54% is obviously OP and needs huge nerfs asap. then why doesn't 46% mean the champ is obviously UP and needs huge buffs

so people roll out the "its balanced around "X" elo.. not that one, so THAT one doesn't matter."

which bring us back to the starting topic.. when did "balanced around "X" elo" start to mean, "to hell with every other elo".

7 Comments

Eedat4 votes

Because the game has NEVER been balanced as a whole around Bronze and Silver.

I'm sorry, but if you're Bronze and Silver you are bad at the game. Hell, I'm Gold and I'm fully aware I'm still shit at the game. That does not mean the game is going to be balanced around me. It doesn't make sense. What motivation is there to get better at the game? Make it to Diamond and get 95% of the champ pool unplayable because Bronze players still think MasterYi Zed LeeSin Fiora Volibear Tryndamere Vladimir are freelo?

So why the hell are we going to listen to your argument about Nid? Because this thread is just a continuation of your biased crying about her earlier. Nid is a high skill cap champion. High skill cap champions should NEVER be balanced around people with garbage mechanics. Nid is a massive problem in higher ELO games and nobody gives a damn what Bronze has to say about it.

Also, nobody gives a damn about the garbage stats you're going to throw around so don't even bother. "BUT MUH 9%", nobody cares

GULAG 4 U2 votes

A gold admitting he's not that good? I praise you.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

Because the game has NEVER been balanced as a whole around Bronze and Silver.

I'm sorry, but if you're Bronze and Silver you are bad at the game. Hell, I'm Gold and I'm fully aware I'm still shit at the game. That does not mean the game is going to be balanced around me. It doesn't make sense. What motivation is there to get better at the game? Make it to Diamond and get 95% of the champ pool unplayable because Bronze players still think MasterYi Zed LeeSin Fiora Volibear Tryndamere Vladimir are freelo?

So why the hell are we going to listen to your argument about Nid? Because this thread is just a continuation of your biased crying about her earlier. Nid is a high skill cap champion. High skill cap champions should NEVER be balanced around people with garbage mechanics. Nid is a massive problem in higher ELO games and nobody gives a damn what Bronze has to say about it.

Also, nobody gives a damn about the garbage stats you're going to throw around so don't even bother. "BUT MUH 9%", nobody cares

oh.. so you want me to be like you can instead of backing up my post with data throw out utter nonsense? i dont WANT the game to be balanced "around" bronze or silver.. and have NEVER asked that, i was VERY precise in what i said.

so ill quote it again because apparently you DIDN'T read the post like you didnt read any of my other ones becuase you seem to have a habit of claiming that i said "X" when i said "Y"

{quoted}

sure i don't have any problem with people saying the game should be balanced around gold/plat/ diamond.. or w/e you want. but that does NOT mean you get to screw over ANY other elo. balanced around a certain elo means then BALANCE of a 50% AVERAGE occurs in THAT ELO.. it does NOT mean that ANY other elo is allows to drop into a completely unacceptable range.

so yeah, not much to say on that but "Learn to read"

second.. I'm not bronze.. i am silver, and honestly on my two mains, who i have lvl 7 mastery at Nidalee and Morgana, i am EASILY gold

as for my understanding of the game.. i am EASILY plat, that isn't champ specific. i am in silver for a few reasons

1st fof which is.. i choose not to play ranked this season after reason silver 5 becuase of dynamic que. instead of going for gold in a season where ranked means nothing. (i was silver 2 last season and i was demoted go bronze 2 because every new season everyone gets demoted)

I understand the the champs and the working and mechanic of the game at a plat level, the REASON i cant reach plat. is simple.. i don't PHYSICALLY have have ability to accomplish what i want my champion to do.

i know WHAT to do.. and the REASON played league after playing startcraft 2 was i couldn't micro to control the entire army at once press all the keys and sequences in the right order at the proper time get all my casting unit to cast while doing other stuff.. i could only control one thing at a time.

also.. nidalee is my main... yes i have a small amount of biased towards her. she is my main.. i like her a LOT.

but the idoits downvoteing me, i am using data to back up my posts. i am being a selfish POS who cares only about 1 elo.

i SAID her winrate in challenger is too high i SAID she does needs a nerf there, and i SAID that the reason why although she DOES need a nerf at higher elos it CANNOT be done, unless it is done it a way where it does NOT destory lower elos.

YOU on the other hand DON'T read my posts, claim i say thing i did NOT say call my statistics worthless when you don't even bother to provide ANY of your own, dont back up your posts with data or reason call me "biased" when i wrote a who freaking gigantic post about baised if you want to read it it is here, (which of course you wont because you don't read any of the posts i write here either) http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tjO3Xwtn-my-main-is-not-op-why-we-are-biased

stop being a freaking hypocrite. YOU are the one who is baised. YOU are the one saying "to hell eith everyone else, those payer are garbage" they don't matter"

your one saying that 54% is OP and deserves a nerf even though that same nerf will drop it below 45% in lower elos.

and most imporantly.. you are ingore the that fact i am NOT DENYINF nid is OP at higher ELOS, i am NOT saying that she donesn't need to be nerfed at higher elos..

ALL i am saying is that IF and WHEN she gets nerfs at higher elos she is COMPENSATED for it in a way that will prevent her LOWER elos from drop from what is already a very low winrate.. into a completely unacceptable range. AND that any nerf that DOES hit her does NOT have the effect of making it so she does NOT want to pounce in.

pouncing in is what GIVES nidalee counter-play. YES the more time she is in melee range the more counterplay she has, so if you increase her time in melee range you give her more counterplay and lower her winrate. so if you DON'T think this through the patch notes would sound fine..

except there is a big freaking problem with that, IF you increase the amount of time nid has to stay in melee range.. after poucing in and given her more counterplay when she is in range. (which may i remind you is ALREADY 3 seconds at 1.5 at max rank (with a small escape) when compared to Leblanc who can pop in and get out almost instantly, and Zed who can get out after 1 second.

becuase lets think... if poucing in is no longer safe.. then nidalee ISN'T going to pounce in.. thereby removeing nearly ALL counterplay from her... making her much more a a freaking pain to play against.. much for for the tream nidalee is on.. and making nidalee just a whole lot less fun.

so basically.. IF the current changes goes through EVERYONE loses,

yes nidalee winrate will go down, but again, it will be at the cost of making nidalee WAY more annoying to face as she wont pounce in anymore, it will make nidalee less fun a making her just a freaking season 3 spear throwing nidalee again.

so.. you wan to tell me which part of this i didn't think through?

do u WANT nidalee to sit back and throw spears all day? or you you WANT her to pounce into melee range where you can use any for of cc you have to keep her there and melt her in the .5 seconds it takes to kill a squishy building no MR or armor (aside from item 3157 or item 3001 based on the team she is facing) and has less than 2.5k hp

why don't YOU think things through for a few moments and use your brain before you spout out utter nonsense.

Eedat2 votes

i dont WANT the game to be balanced "around" bronze or silver

Yet here you are throwing a massive hissy fit that Nid should be balanced around you ELO which is bronze by the way.

second.. I'm not bronze.. i am silver,

Get over yourself. Silver 5 with a 45% win rate and a bronze 2 MMR. You're bronze.

and honestly on my two mains, who i have lvl 7 mastery at and , i am EASILY gold

Your two mains? Hmmm lets take a look here at your stats.

  1. Blitzcrank 20.6 CS 2.12:1 KDA 2.4 / 6.7 / 11.7 47% win rate 53 Played

  2. Lux 56.3 CS 2.08:1 KDA 3.4 / 8.3 / 13.8 42% win rate 24 Played

  3. Nidalee 69.2 CS 1.89:1 KDA 6.9 / 7.9 / 8.2 42% win rate 19 Played

So you're going to tell me you're gold when your top champs are below 50% in trashcan bronze ELO? What a joke.

as for my understanding of the game.. i am EASILY plat, that isn't champ specific. i am in silver for a few reasons

Hahahahahahaha ok kid. If your bronze MMR play is Plat, then I'm Challenger at least. Go ahead and regurgitate all the bullshit excuses you want but that doesn't change a damn thing.

i SAID her winrate in challenger is too high i SAID she does needs a nerf there, and i SAID that the reason why although she DOES need a nerf at higher elos it CANNOT be done, unless it is done it a way where it does NOT destory lower elos.

There is absolutely no way to do that. Especially since you get extra pissed off at anyone who suggests a rework. What part of this don't you understand? Nid is a high skill cap champion. She will never be balanced around you bronze MMR. She never should be balanced around bronze MMR. Why are they going to balance a champion around the people who flat out suck at using her?

Just going to summarize the rest of your post here. You post a thread that you made where you say "mains are not the best people to balance their champs" yet here you are, a main trying to balance his champ. Blah blah blah more comparisons to LB and Zeds huge cooldown dashes to Nid's extremely short CD dash blah blah blah more and more bias blah blah blah regurgitating the same points over and over blah blah blah and thats about it

Dynikus1 votes

so your "ok" with your main having a 50% win rate in plat.. a 89% win rate in challenger and a 28% win rate in bronze

hyperbole is never a good argument. You don't really seem to understand what the concept of balancing around higher elos means either. At higher elos, difference in player skill is less drastic, and the actual strength of different champions plays a bigger role in who wins and loses. They balance around that because that's how you actually balance a champion. You can't balance around bronze because individual skill has huge variance.

but what it REALLY needs to a nerf at HIGHER elos and a BUFF at lower elos so it doesn't have a 9% difference

and you brought this up in your thread about nidalee. You're again just talking about how the difference in winrate needs to be smaller, but not actually giving suggestions on how to achieve that. A champion like nidalee that requires a lot of mechanical skill is never going to do that well in lower elos, because the players at that level can't take advantage of how strong the champion is. There's no magical fix to bridge the gap in winrates and make everything perfectly balanced. Buffing low elo and nerfing high elos at the same time isn't an easy task.

azrolator1 votes

I think you said it yourself here. 95 percent of the champ pool unplayable at Diamond. But why? What percentage of the playerbase is at diamond or even gold? But when it comes to champs like Garen, he isn't getting balanced for higher levels of ranked. People aren't playing him at high levels of ranked. Why does he get nerfs while stronger champs get buffs? Why dump on the majority of the player base for the enjoyment of a few? Just doesn't make sense to me.

GuaigaWaruiDesu1 votes

This is nonsense. 😰

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