Reminder that Overgrowth is a Terrible Rune

Woodakoodashooda·Jul 22, 2018·87 votes·24,053 views

Even if you stack straight HP items on champions that benefit from them and even if you farm effectively and even if you manage full build, Overgrowth will still only give you somewhere between +3% to +5% maximum health. That amounts to +30-50 health for every 1,000 maximum health you have. So, if your champion ends with 4k to 5k maximum health by the end of a match, that's a mere 120-250 bonus health from a rune and that's only AFTER a rare instance in which you play a long game at which point most champions that even bother building tank end up shredded by late game hyper carries.

Overgrowth provides no benefits early, mid, or late as a result. It's just plain terrible and the only conceivable reason why anyone would bother with it is if they are capable of using Grasp of the Undying consistently so as to stack health not just off items, but also their keystone.

70 Comments

Warlord RhinarkJul 22, 201829 votes

Remember when it was first announced as "Overcharge" or something like that, and it just gave a flat one hp per unit killed?

Seer of MindJul 22, 20182 votes

Except that gives everyone Sion's passive..

Rathar DashingJul 22, 201822 votes

Just like when they put Janna's passive on Ancient Coin. Or when they put Volibear's passive on Second Wind. Or Ashe's passive on Glacial Augment.

XeroKimoJul 22, 20184 votes

Ashe's old passive on stormrazor..... kinda

MelledoneusJul 23, 20183 votes

I keep forgetting Glacial Augment ever was a thing.

Vlada CutJul 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I keep forgetting Glacial Augment ever was a thing.

Glacial is good on Aatrox against slow targets. But could use some sort of rework to make it better.

Kurt HyzanJul 22, 20189 votes

Would be cool if it worked the same as old Chogath passive

It doesn't stack indefinitely, but once reached a certain cap, killing monsters / elite minions heals you for a % of your hp

True GarenAug 23, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kurt Hyzan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-22T13:34:14.534+0000)

Would be cool if it worked the same as old passive

It doesn't stack indefinitely, but once reached a certain cap, killing monsters / elite minions heals you for a % of your hp

That was Strength of Ages.

TranseptofLimbsJun 2, 20192 votes

Strength of Ages was so good for Jungle. I miss it.

GuttlerJul 23, 20184 votes

Overgrowth is aweful, it's still the best rune in the row, which just goes to show how bad Resolve is for real tanks.

I really wish Riot would make a support tree for runes. Resolve tree is hamstrung by the fact that there are several "support" runes slapped into the various rows. Guardian, Font of Life, Revitalize could all just be moved to a support tree, since no solo lane tank or fightering is ever going to take them.

AlienPrimateJul 23, 20184 votes

Either you have some terrible math or you go AFK every single game. 3% would only be 120 minions and 5% is 200. If you are full build you should have like 400-500 minions die near you which would be over 10% increase. 10% of 5k is 500 hp which is 1.3k gold worth of free stats ON A SECONDARY RUNE. That is quite a bit more hp than your keystone will give you. I don't think I've ever used grasp more than 70 times in an extremely long game and it would take 100 procs to get 500 HP from it.

CURSEÐ REVENANTJul 22, 20183 votes

Did you not get the memo that this is League of Damage? Building tank is troll build now. If you are not building damage you are basically useless.

NalisaiJul 22, 20182 votes

Maybe it wasn't meant for tanks, but for squishies like mages and assassins and supports and adcs. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone though.

HügöJul 22, 201818 votes

Then the rune would be a even more bad design. When it were designed for champions with low max hp it would give flat hp as the % scaling would be even more trash on them.

TrikzterzArmaJul 22, 201841 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it wasn't meant for tanks, but for squishies like mages and assassins and supports and adcs. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone though.

But that gives even LESS hp

NalisaiJul 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

But that gives even LESS hp

You are correct. But on, say, Soraka, 150 more hp is no different than 150 more mana. Difference between life and death. You're all thinking along the liines of 'it should replace a shop item at least' - well it can. Just that it replaces a item 1028 and not item 3742 .

Rathar DashingJul 22, 201838 votes

why would you take that on Soraka over Revitalize

Daddy AntsJul 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-22T15:43:39.755+0000)

why would you take that on Soraka over Revitalize

Like Soraka would miss that 5%.

Her heal has generous ratios and generous base numbers compared to the other healers.

Rathar DashingJul 22, 201811 votes

5-15%, actually. With her passive and ultimate it makes that 15% even better.

Also increasing her health has the negative effect of also increasing her health...costs. Only benefits I can see from taking Overgrowth would be healing allies for slightly more with Font of Life (which actually is less than how much Revitalize would buff it but okay) and for getting to Warmogs faster.

Z3SleeperJul 22, 20183 votes

It's actually more than that.

It calculates as 5% heal and shield power and 10% increased healing and shielding on targets below 40% health.

They stack multiplicatively and the result is a 15.5% increase.

Rathar DashingJul 22, 20182 votes

That's true, but the fact she already builds heal/shield power items kind of balances this out. After getting item 3114 it becomes a 21% increase in power, which compared to a 5% increase is only a 15.24% increase. After gaining redemption and ardent it becomes a net increase of about 14.74%.

Z3SleeperJul 22, 20182 votes

The 5% and the rest of the heal and shield power things stack multiplicatively too.

Idk if you implemented that in your reply. I have no clue how exactly mulitplicative stacking works other than it's a reduced stacking.

KaìjuJul 22, 20182 votes

I use it with Grasp and on ADCs will get about 150 to 200 up after a game, on tanks I get about 350 to 450 hp. Go ahead and buff it, works for me.

iamsmurfing0101Jul 22, 20188 votes

You use grasp on adcs?

Seer of MindJul 22, 20181 votes

I know a one trick Ashe who only runs Ghost + Heal with grasp. its actually dumb how good it is

Z3SleeperJul 22, 20184 votes

Base health 539. Grasp 2.4% multiplier for damage and 1.2% for healing for ranged.

12 magic damage and 6 healing on basic attack every 4 seconds in combat? How does he not lose every game?

The Yetii RiderJul 22, 20182 votes

Because level 1 lasts about three minutes?

Z3SleeperJul 22, 20182 votes

Level 6. 874.8

21 damage and 11 healing on basic attack every 4 seconds in combat.

Edit: Oh but resolve + dorans health lemme calculate that too.

... 24 and 12...

5000000000000000Jul 22, 20182 votes

Not to mention missing out on AS from taking precision

Fleet Footwork is just better in almost all situations

SpoofghoulJul 23, 20181 votes

it would help vs burst to have the extra health

i can see how this could be useful stacked with bone plating, over heal and a BT for example vs assassins

5000000000000000Jul 26, 20181 votes

30-270 hp is not that great imo

KaìjuJul 25, 20181 votes

Grasp early heals more than Footwork does because it's up more often. Second wind, Overgrowth, and Bone Plating help, with Bloodline and Triumph too. At level nine with Black Cleaver first item item and about 30 stacks it puts you at about 1800 health while other ADC's are at about 100, and roughly 132 AD, plus with Grieves 1.10 attack speed. There is no meta bruh, play what you want.

BigFBearJul 22, 20182 votes

Resolve is one of the worst trees. It's so sad that I have to skill it as tank.

SugeMinPikkJul 22, 20182 votes

It's okay in ARAM

KingBlackthorn1Jul 22, 20182 votes

I think it is okay, but does need massive buffs.

PopcornBunniJul 22, 20181 votes

It's still much better than Grasp of the Undying, a fucking keystone, gives.

My Waifu VanillaJul 22, 20185 votes

Only if you're bad. Can easily get 20-30 grasp procs in laning phase if you actively look for trades on tanks ESPECIALLY in the tank mirror. That's 100-150 health for free in laning phase while ALSO healing you for a lot throughout the laning phase. Also, Grasp is still taken often enough on GP and Fiora because of how strong it is compared to the competition.

Z3SleeperJul 22, 20186 votes

? 20-30 is alot. Also, even with 20-30. 100-150 is still less than overgrowth.

Back when I tried overgrowth, the norm was to end up ~200+ health.

Also no, tanks don't just slap each other all day. For the most part, they ignore each other.

Shen and Cho are the only ones who actively harass tanks with basic attacks due to their % health damage.

My Waifu VanillaJul 22, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-07-22T20:22:24.756+0000)

in laning phase

Reading is hard I know. Please tell me when you are going to get 100-150 health in the laning phase from Overgrowth. I will wait. Getting an extra 400g worth of health when you only have a Sunfire Cape is much more noticeable than getting like 600g worth of health when you are on 6 items.

Also, proccing Grasp even 10 times before backing is healing you for 20% of your maximum health throughout that stretch of laning phase which is much more than any other rune would. Also does damage for 40% of YOUR health to the opponent. Yes, most of it WILL be negated by potions/passive health regen and the whatnot, but it is still more than overgrowth will do which is JUST gain health.

Grasp scales in health it gives and damage/sustain it brings whereas Overgrowth is mediocre health gain that only actually feels like it does something after 3 items. I play a decent amount of Malphite and a 3k health malphite ult with Grasp up does quite a bit of damage. 120 basically free damage to your initiation is nothing to scoff at considering your all-in already does about 1200 or so (even more with Trinity Force).

Z3SleeperJul 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-22T20:51:10.060+0000)

Also, proccing Grasp even 10 times before backing is healing you for 20% of your maximum health throughout that stretch of laning phase which is much more than any other rune would. Also does damage for 40% of YOUR health to the opponent. Yes, most of it WILL be negated by potions/passive health regen and the whatnot, but it is still more than overgrowth will do which is JUST gain health.

Yeah cool I think Grasp is good too. Never said it wasn't. Reading is hard I know.

Rathar DashingJul 22, 20181 votes

Grasp's important component is the %HP as damage, along with the %HP heal every 4 seconds.

PopcornBunniJul 22, 2018

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-07-22T21:43:00.864+0000)

Grasp's important component is the %HP as damage, along with the %HP heal every 4 seconds.

I'm well aware, but the point is as far as the health gained goes, overgrowth gives more than the health keystone itself in a normal match. 7% is easily reached just from catching waves, and that nets well over 200 health on every tank in the game.

As well, look at its competition in the slot. 5% bonus healing and shield is literally just strictly worse than having 5% more health on the vast majority of tanks, who's shields or heals scale with their total health anyway. And Unflinching is a joke when the threat of cc is never a long lasting opening of attacks but rather the 100-0 burst which makes tenacity worthless. Not to mention the overabundance of knockups making it have an actual 0 value.

Rathar DashingJul 22, 20181 votes

Revitalize is really nice on tanks with innate shields/heals like Rakan or Shen or Taric. It's also a nice pick if you know your team has a Soraka, Nami or Sona to get even more health out of their healing.

As for unflinching, it really only works on tank junglers who want to smite enemy champions to stick to them. Overall though tenacity is just pretty bad against champions, except for maybe Morgana and Zoe (speaking from experience).

VelasanJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's still much better than Grasp of the Undying, a fucking keystone, gives.

You have to remember that in the past Grasp healed you for more, but didn't actually do as much damage or give you health when you used it. That mechanic was only added when the runes were reworked.

So, actually all they've done recently is made it stronger. It's just that in the current landscape some runes give so much power (particularly the bounty runes) that it doesn't seem as strong by comparison.

TyroneWatermelonJul 22, 20181 votes

Revitalize is also shit. And tanks don’t care about unflinching anyway

WoodakoodashoodaJul 22, 20185 votes

Revitalize is good for champs with built in shields and healing or can even be taken on a bot laner whose support is a shielder/healer.

And Unflinching is generally used on jungle tanks, but they aren't in a good spot right now so Unflinching is rarely used as a result.

TyroneWatermelonJul 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-07-22T17:27:34.344+0000)

Revitalize is good for champs with built in shields and healing or can even be taken on a bot laner whose support is a shielder/healer.

And Unflinching is generally used on jungle tanks, but they aren't in a good spot right now so Unflinching is rarely used as a result.

Why would I use revitalize on Malphite, Maokai, Zac, Ornn, Nautilus, Sion, Shen, Gallo and poppy when their shields and heals scale off max HP anyway that I can get from overgrowth? Might as well get bonus health and bonus heal/shield instead of just bonus health/shield

VelasanJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4HXEvjOn,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-07-22T17:27:34.344+0000)

Revitalize is good for champs with built in shields and healing or can even be taken on a bot laner whose support is a shielder/healer.

And Unflinching is generally used on jungle tanks, but they aren't in a good spot right now so Unflinching is rarely used as a result.

Qft. It's the best rune on Sejuani and Volibear despite both translating HP stat into damage. It is very good for keeping up with the enemy to catch them out. Junglers in particular can often go blue smite, so if you have run up and used blue smite on someone trying to run away Unflinching automatically gives you some tenacity AND slow resistance.

Overgrowth is an OK rune, but only champions with some kind of ability to self stack HP to start with such as Cho'gath. Even there, for lane Cho'gath Revitalize is slightly better because of his healing passive on minion kills. It can stack up nicely if the game goes long, but it asks a lot from you in the early stages where it basically is a null rune that doesn't do anything.

fƒ15Jul 24, 20181 votes

At around 25 minutes you can expect about 6% max hp, which can actually be very useful on bruisers, and tanks! It's a rune meant to scale and give 140-200 around 25 minutes as well. Unfortunately there is less of late game in this recent patch so generally players don't see this rune- also since tanks are less popular in this meta as well.

leakinbJul 24, 20181 votes

I agree The %health only feel good on champ which has good base health and stack health and it takes too long to scale E.g. Darius of 3000 hp only gain 150 health when overgrowth is stacked 25 times (equivalent to 200 minions)