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@Ghostcrawler I hope you're not serious about Challenger being solo ONLY to reduce queue times

LaughingStapler··23 votes·2,172 views

The exception is challenger, which is a necessary compromise to preserve reasonable queue times, not because challenger is somehow more pure and therefore deserves real solo.

It makes sense for Challenger to be solo but queue times shouldn't be the primary reason. Challenger rankings are used for scouting purposes and also supposed to objectively show who the best players are individually. When you mix both solo and duo, it can distort the rankings at this ELO almost as much as a 5 man would in Silver ELO. For example, if one ADC main only ranks when duoing with his favorite support, it's likely that an otherwise superior solo ADC wouldn't get as far on the Challenger ladder.

Having the Challenger ladder be solo is just more fair and logical. It allows direct comparisons between players since they all operate in the same environment. Even if there was no greater ease climbing duo it's still hard to isolate individual performance and adds ambiguity to the ranking. Is that ADC really amazing or is he just really good with this particular support etc.?

This kind of explains my point, althought it's a bit different subject.

13 Comments

EfficientDynamo5 votes

To be fair, people are only scouted for their ultimate potential to perform well in a team environment. It therefore makes more sense to allow groups to exist in the challenger queue, as opposed to other skill levels.

PrometheS2 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, people are only scouted for their ultimate potential to perform well in a team environment. It therefore makes more sense to allow groups to exist in the challenger queue, as opposed to other skill levels.

Yes, that's true but SQ performance is often a better indicator of adaptability since you have to communicate and work together with strangers (without a detailed pre-game plan). I also think it tends to better reflect mechanical skill and "raw talent" even if it's practically quite different from a team environment.

It would be unfair to allow duo+ in Challenger because those who don't have a good duo partner would likely be unable to compete at the same level. Unless there were separate ladders for those who were duo+ in Challenger, it would be unclear what those rankings meant. How much is it that player and how much is the duo partner? You know what you're getting from a solo ranking but a duoQ ranking is much more complicated to evaluate.

Of course, I think this stuff only really matters in Masters+. DuoQ is good enough below that and it's not like they're going to randomly recruit a Platinum or even Diamond player.

Canidae1 votes

Just because a player performs well with other high elo friends doesn't mean that they'll perform well in a professional team environment. This is why things like tryouts happen. Dynamic Queue was something added this season, and players are expected to possess a high skill level and be adaptable enough to climb on their own, or at most, with a partner. Teams usually pull from high diamond and up anyway, so Challenger being solo-queue only shouldn't be an issue.

Elikain2 votes

Actually, no. Playes are scouted because of their skill, competency, knowledge and performance. Then and only then, they get offers from teams that they'll be playing with in tournaments. Getting random teams in Challenger is not the equivalent to pro teams knowing how each teammate plays and knowing the limits of all of the parties involved to make plays.

Random premades can't demonstrate this quality as they don't communicate or play on such level, for an extended period of time to get familiar with the teammates.

MonkeyMadness4 votes

Honestly, ranked ladder integrity/purity is something that should be preserved at gold mmr and higher, as this is when you start getting the serious ranked rewards. allowing half the fkin community to boost their way to gold defeats the meaning of that victorious skin.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Or maybe give more different rewards? I mean diamond is hella different from gold yet we don't get anything exclusively... not even in master. Only challenger get physical rewards whatever that should be?

MonkeyMadness1 votes

What can they give tho, honestly? This is a video game, it's not like they can start mailing the 50,000 or whatever diamond players some physical award.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

are you challenger?

PrometheS19 votes

{quoted}

are you challenger?

How is that at all relevant to the point being made? If someone proved 2+2 = 4, would you demand they be a mathematician instead of examining what's being communicated?

BloodyTompon3 votes

Yes. I am not a mathematician, how would I know it's right?

Dengeden1 votes

If someone is gonna scout the Challenger ladder for a team member, you bet they'll grill them on why they duo so much.

NostolgicSkies1 votes

If GhostCrawler is involved in it, u should just assume it will be a bad idea and/or be another reason for players to move on. after all doesn't his resume say he's good at destroying games and causing legendary player base exodus's?

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Well champ/item balance definitely went to the shitter over the course of the years.... especially the high imbalance between ranged (adc, mages) and immobile champs. IMO.

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