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Every ranged champion can push a tower

Ahristocats··22 votes·1,470 views

What's wrong with this community? i just had someone that told me that ADC are broken because they can push a tower

No, just No. You're new to the game and don't know that there is in this game an AP ratio when you hit a tower. Get Orianna Syndra Viktor RyzeLux Azir with 500 AP and tell me if you don't manage to push a tower even support SonaZyra can push a tower for you if they manage to get 300 or 400 AP. item 3100 let's not even talk about this item combined with some mages like Ziggs TwistedFate Viktor Lux .

And that's mages, because you can also get ranged toplaners easily those day. Or ranged junglers

And don't act like melees can't push a tower too, champions like Blitzcrank make the enemy not safe if they want to protect a tower. Champions like Shen Jax can hit a tower while dodging attacks for a few second than disengage to wait 5 sec and dodge again.

Adc are better at taking towers FASTER, but they aren't requiered 100% to push a tower.

Adc are picked in every game because combined with a support they are the best lane bullies in the game while scalling in late game. they literally prevent anyone from farming botlane, if you don't believe me try to pick a melee botlane and have fun.

Thank you for reading

42 Comments

FalconPawwwwnch10 votes

Ya pretty much

ADCs aren't played because "hurr they need to take towers" it's because the marksman class has champions that no other class can lane vs

Even champions who are supposed to be good early game like Pantheon can't lane vs a ranged AD if you both have a support

It's ridiculous how powercreeped ADCs have become throughout the years, back in season 0-1 people would run Jax/Xin/Pantheon bot lane with Janna/Raka whoever else and win but you can't do that anymore because ADCs early game have been powercreeped so damn hard

Even in the beginning of season 6 they gave every ADC like 5 extra AD at level 1 for god knows what reason

Ahristocats4 votes

Indeed

they go from being the worst champions in early game when they lane alone, to gods and best lane bully in the game when they are with a support

RexSaur1 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48cYXvkE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-12-08T19:05:33.319+0000)

Indeed

they go from being the worst champions in early game when they lane alone, to gods and best lane bully in the game when they are with a support

That is more to do with supports being broken than anything else (as those are the ones who often decide bot lane, not adcs).

Braum, thresh and all of those complete anti melee supports didnt exist back then, with the only peel heavy support being janna (who is actually squishy and could be cheesed or vulnerable against poke lanes), and thats not even talking about those overly strong support items, since back then supports didnt really have gold for actual items.

And exhaust is overpowered as hell.

Sona x Rubick2 votes

supports are broken? then why ADC+support>Support+everything?

Do you understand what is being said? we're talking about early game, there isn't anti-melee in laning phase, there is "i poke you down and stop you from going all in on my adc", oh and "i ward the lane to protect the adc from ganks"

Back in 2011 when jax was played as an adc by chaox, minions weren't inexistent and melees could farm against ranged champs without being bullied hard because minions had an insane base movement speed and damage.

resumed1 votes

then why ADC+support>Support+everything?

not that i necessarily agree with the statement that supports are broken super broken, but i can answer this

the answer is that it's important in a 2v2 scenario to have mixed damage

supports, in addition to being huge fuck yous to melees, are pretty much all magic damage even if it is something like a janna w. even a consistent source of magic damage like cassiopeia, kayle, teemo, etc, cannot be meta replacements for adcs because support champions all deal magic damage, and would be completely fucked over by early purchases of these items

item 3155 item 3140 item 1033

Ahristocats1 votes

so if we nerf supports we're going to fixe botlane?

resumed1 votes

u aint even read the first 4 words of mypost let alone the rest of it -_-

Sona x Rubick3 votes

it has nothing to do with supports, in botlane you get reduced exp which leads a melee to get lvl 2 or 3 later and in this time an adc can poke him until he has no hp remaining, denying in the way so much CS.

Supports aren't the fault of anything, and it doesn't matter that they bring magic damage which makes mages unplayable bot(no idea why you would put a mage there), but we're talking about melees.

resumed1 votes

u asked i answered

wtf u want

WingsofGulgazor2 votes

you know supports use to be with apc's down bot and adcs use to go mid and it only changed because the lvls were better for mages and the help of a support did more for ad's then mages.

Ahristocats2 votes

link me a game of a support with an APC i'll laugh

supports were always with adc, adc never went mid

once old dota allstar players that became pro played the game around dreamhack 2011 they immediatly did the carry+support format which was a normal thing during dota1, they even picked melee carries back in the days because jax wasn't a joke he was hardcountered by sword of divin, but you couldn't buy this item on urgot.

so no, apc never went down what the fuck is this

WoonStruck1 votes

Old NA meta was ADC mid, APC+support bot.

NA adapted the EU meta of APC mid, ADC+support bot.

FalconPawwwwnch3 votes

Exhaust is broken, that I 100% agree with

WingsofGulgazor1 votes

hence it supports that are op??? and it makes sense that the power of two roles will be stronger then any singular role by itself.

WingsofGulgazor1 votes

{quoted}

Ya pretty much

ADCs aren't played because "hurr they need to take towers" it's because the marksman class has champions that no other class can lane vs

Even champions who are supposed to be good early game like Pantheon can't lane vs a ranged AD if you both have a support

It's ridiculous how powercreeped ADCs have become throughout the years, back in season 0-1 people would run Jax/Xin/Pantheon bot lane with Janna/Raka whoever else and win but you can't do that anymore because ADCs early game have been powercreeped so damn hard

Even in the beginning of season 6 they gave every ADC like 5 extra AD at level 1 for god knows what reason

Hence they can take towers because no one can lane against them and then once they get bot tower any decent elo will rotate top and bot and then they take top tower then they go mid and get mid tower and this happens even if adc's are weak. Also people tend to forget that just like there have been adc's there have always been supports and adc's are only viable because supports are op as hell and both roles benefit each other for instance one you get ahead and take a tower or even just kill your lane enemy support can roam and do all sorts of stuff.

Revali4 votes

the difference is they need that high amount of ap to get it where most marksmen or some junglers build tons of attacks speed to ramp up their own waveclear without the use of their spells, or need to weave with sheen and just stand there autoattacking it

theres no denying they can push, but that's it, push, their tower taking just doesn't compare to marksmen unless they have ways to burst a tower like ekko with item 3100 E, etc. and even then that waters down to spellweaving with a sheen to get the most use out of it.

Ahristocats2 votes

So what you're telling me is that you can still push without a marksmen

and btw, to push a tower fast you also need 300 AD with a marksmen which is the same

Critmaster Garen4 votes

[{quoted}](name=playfive Koopska,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48cYXvkE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T15:58:29.606+0000)

So what you're telling me is that you can still push without a marksmen

and btw, to push a tower fast you also need 300 AD with a marksmen which is the same

turrets works when approaching a lot of ap and with an item like lichbane.

drakes and barons are the issue.

and marksmen are overpowered because they bring a combination of almost everything. split pushing, ridiculous damage to champions and objectives from safe distance, and in many cases burst and utility.

Ahristocats4 votes

Baron and drakes are the issue? i mean sure if you replace them with non-DPS champions, but if you don't i don't see what's the issue.

And i know that marksmen bring a combination of everything, i'm just stating that it's possible to push without them IF YOU HAVE one ranged champ in your team.

RexSaur1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48cYXvkE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T16:56:09.424+0000)

turrets works when approaching a lot of ap and with an item like lichbane.

drakes and barons are the issue.

and marksmen are overpowered because they bring a combination of almost everything. split pushing, ridiculous damage to champions and objectives from safe distance, and in many cases burst and utility.

Yeah, what non vayne adcs can split push well again?

And vayne being able to split is compensated by her poor 5v5 and sieges vs a lot of team comps.

Adcs are the most team reliant class for a reason, its because they are the least self sufficient class (most adcs cannot solo lane at all), and saying that they do too much well is the complete opposite of it, if they did you would see adcs played in every role, which was only the case at the start of the last season due to numbers being broken.

And dont even start with "but you can play something like lucian top and bully melees", if you know how to play laning phase and your jungler isnt braindead top adcs are food, and besides picking lucian/quinn/whatever top fucks your team comp too hard.

Ahristocats4 votes

it doesn't matter if they are team reliant or not, you shouldn't balance a class that needs a support around being alone.

i don't think Twitch that can be killed by almost everyone is balanced when he obliterates the entire team with his team peeling for him.

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=48cYXvkE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T16:56:09.424+0000)

turrets works when approaching a lot of ap and with an item like lichbane.

drakes and barons are the issue.

and marksmen are overpowered because they bring a combination of almost everything. split pushing, ridiculous damage to champions and objectives from safe distance, and in many cases burst and utility.

They also have superior itemization.

Dasdi963 votes

Ziggs is probably the best tower destroyer in the game, but he is best played mid due to his kit requiring levels. Although I do see a potential for a solo bot ziggs.

Kingnewgameplus1 votes

A late game ziggs can legit 2 shot towers with lich and his passive, its hilarious to watch.

BakedLotion3 votes

Why exactly is a lux your example of a lich bane user lol Her CDs are too long to utilize it and she doesn't have an auto steroid on towers

Ahristocats1 votes

i have seen lux building lich bane

that's all

Borbland3 votes

Ziggs pushing tower strategy:

  1. Get item 3100
  2. Get some AP
  3. Wait until passive is up
  4. Place W under tower (but dont detonate it)
  5. AA tower with passive + Lich Bane
  6. See how tower loses 80% of its health
  7. Slowly walk away as your W destroys the tower
Sanctimonious2 votes

Kayle item 3006 item 3115 item 3124 item 3089 item 3100 item 3135 item 2139 What's a tower?

Ahristocats1 votes

something that doesn't need an adc to be killed

{quoted}

item 2139

Oh yeah, i forgot this

Sanctimonious1 votes

Don't forget about Red buff and Krug buff too! xD

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Krug buff got removed, though.

Sanctimonious1 votes

Everything's getting removed! rip!

Escheton1 votes

It's how it used to be though.

Spoofghoul1 votes

Sion can push a tower even when he is dead

he can also just ult into it to chunk it down, and conveniently clear every minion on the way

then push it down untill your enemy kills you

then use passive to finish tower off

use with some aoe clear items ravenous hydra in particular is good a zzrot and death time reduction quints for greater effect

if you thought ap nasus with zzrot was cancer you havent seen this one yet

Skias1 votes

Giving champions an AP ratio on autos against turrets was easily one of the worst changes ever.

grittedblade1 votes

its a team based objective game, i dont see how increasing the number of team members who can take objective effectively is a bad idea.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

its a team based objective game, i dont see how increasing the number of team members who can take objective effectively is a bad idea.

Because it's not their role to use autos to hammer down turrets. That's the entire reason ADCs are supposed to be on the team. Tower taking ability.

grittedblade1 votes

just because its not their role doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do it, certain champs and champ types will be better than others at taking towers. att speed makes a big difference when paired with an ADCs damage. but an ap champ in a solo lane shouldn't have to rely on roaming AD to take a tower.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

just because its not their role doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to do it, certain champs and champ types will be better than others at taking towers. att speed makes a big difference when paired with an ADCs damage. but an ap champ in a solo lane shouldn't have to rely on roaming AD to take a tower.

Bro, you don't know how ridiculous that sounds. As Anivia, with my superior wave push, I can take a turret if I force my opponent out of lane a single time with the added ap on my autos. Its absolutely overkill. Last season, I climbed to gold just using Zzrot and sieging towers. Its completely dumb.

grittedblade1 votes

you have to itemize for AP the same as AD as it gets later and later into the laneing phase of the game of course getting pushed out of lane is going to cost you at least tower health and maybe a tower if you were an adc or a AD top laner with decent clear you would expect that after a certain point in the game you could turn a force out or a kill into a tower. why then should a AP champ not be able to do the same?

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

you have to itemize for AP the same as AD as it gets later and later into the laneing phase of the game of course getting pushed out of lane is going to cost you at least tower health and maybe a tower if you were an adc or a AD top laner with decent clear you would expect that after a certain point in the game you could turn a force out or a kill into a tower. why then should a AP champ not be able to do the same?

The AP ratio on their autos means I can take their tower with just my ult and 50 AP. Thats even faster than an ADC can take it. That's absolutely stupid.

Castanean1 votes

Veigar item 3100 item 3089 item 3089 item 3089 item 3089 item 3089

Mighty nice turret you had there.

#HAD.

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