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I feel like I have no agency over the games anymore.

option paralysis··48 votes·4,048 views

I win or lose completely based off of who has a better bot lane. Top lane sometimes decides it if they're like 0/8, but other than that, it's just whoever has a better bot lane or who's autofilled bot lane. Gank bot lane - they're good so they keep the lead, take tower, rotate top/mid take tower and we end the game in like 15-25 mins. Gank bot lane - they're not that good, so they lose and so the team loses. That's it. I don't get what riot is trying to do with the game, are they really that oblivious to what is happening or they're doing it consciously, because casuals and $. What am I supposed to do to win games anymore ? Matchmaking system matches with you the range from diamond 5 to challenger players. It's like yeah ok. I was d1, demoted to d2, and now I lost 5 series back to d1 again. I didn't feel like I had a say in games whatsoever. It's completely based off of not getting an autofilled player and getting a good bot lane. Games are a coin flip and playing league feels so bad when you lose and indifferent when you win. Idk what to play or do anymore. I can see why people are meta slaves in higher elo, because that's the only way you can carry games, since you depend on the matchmaking system so god damn much. Even more so now with the stupid bot lane dominating everything.

63 Comments

Anatera33 votes

The reason you feel this way is because you actually don't have any agency anymore. The game has gotten to a point where you can't solo carry unless you're playing very specific roles. You NEED to have teammates who are decent and the game often refuses to give them to you.

UpDownLeftRightAB8 votes

As a bot/supp individual, very much this. Doesn't matter if I go 10/0 in lane if we have no tank, no peel/disengage, and no hard engage; the enemy can just burst the ADC. But that isn't the problem the original poster has, they are in high elo, where a working team composition is not as much of a problem, there, their teammates will know to just protect the bigger ADC and just win.

Hügö1 votes

Thats why I stop playing after my team died 2 times in laning phase. There is literally no reason anymore, just afk farm till end.

Tomoe Gozen4 votes

So what you're saying is that you refuse to play the game with the team anymore because there are deaths on your team? What kind of a crappy attitude is that and what is it that you're accomplishing by going the scummy way and making the game a 4v5?

If you can't solo carry anymore in games, you AFK farming your ass off until the end of time isn't going to affect the outcome but it will sure cement your team's loss because they can't fight handicapped. And it will only earn you reports because you refuse to play out the games until the end. If you can't understand teamwork, don't play a team game.

Don't intentionally cause losses. The game isn't over until it's over. It's not over when you think it's over.

Hügö1 votes

The thing is I can carry bad people but not stupid ones. A bad player will die 1 time and knows he is behind and won't engage again. A stupid player will die over and over again because he won't realise that he has no chance. So while the bad player will give the chance for compensation the stupid player just throws the game where there is no reason to play. It's the first season since season 1 when i started playing where I open and go for fast loses to start the next game instead of wasting 25 mins to still lose. It sucks but thats the meta riot forced on us.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

It still doesn't justify anyone AFK farming and refusing to play, due to stupid mistakes. Mistakes will happen in every game and if you're playing the elitist card, you're tolerance level is just going to go down and down, eventually quitting the game after a single death, for whatever reason.

Don't be that guy. If the game is a loss, it's a loss. But you can't do worse than losing a game if you;re try to win it, despite the odds. It's only going to feel like a hard earned victory when you do the impossible and pull out a victory where you shouldn't have.

I've been a part of games where my team's down 10 or more kills, only for the enemy team to get conceited and start trying to look for solo kills, we group up and win every piece of gold we lost early. Then the enemy team can't fight us anymore because we finally started acting as a team and the enemy team wanted solo glory. I've also been a part of the teams where this happened on my side and we lose the advantage in the same way.

Hügö1 votes

Like I said I said i can live with a mistake but not with players that do it repeaditly. https://puu.sh/ztwMP/60bfa831f4.png https://puu.sh/ztwNe/33cf4e6731.png Just my 2 recent games.

The game is so early focused right now that losing early is a 80% losing chance. So why play with players that can't play the game because they are stupid?

WiegrafOfValor11 votes

Sadly ADC mains think themselves as mechanical gods that deserve to be overpowered because they need to attack and move at the same time, although everyone needs to do that and if your adc puts more than 2 wards over the course of the match you're most likely the 1%. Because of that you'll not see adc nerfs. https://i.imgur.com/NU8Baew.gif

Hayaishi7 votes

{quoted}

Sadly ADC mains think themselves as mechanical gods that deserve to be overpowered because they need to attack and move at the same time, although everyone needs to do that and if your adc puts more than 2 wards over the course of the match you're most likely the 1%. Because of that you'll not see adc nerfs. https://i.imgur.com/NU8Baew.gif

You think playing ADC is much better?

Playing ADC is the same shit every game. You won bot? Rotate take top, then mid then take everything on the map and hope your team doesn't throw by picking random useless fights.

Or..

You lose bot due to having an autofilled support since bot lane is 70% support 30% adc.

you lose bot due to getting camped while your team doesn't react and now you get blamed despite having no say.

you win lane and still lose game due to your solo laners feeding out of their asses.

Go even bot and lose anyways because game is "better jungler wins" since season 6.

Idk how anyone has fun playing ADC since all you do every game is hope your team survives laning phase but all the way up to plat people either feed lane so hard you get stomped by min 18 or win lane so hard you stomp.

3TWarrior1 votes

unfortunately it's been better jungler for longer than that. I miss season 4 when people could actually play without a jungler XD

Raiyza9 votes

I main ADC. There's 3 problems with my games right now.

  1. Towers are useless and it's too easy to take the first one. Whoever has the more aggressive jungler will take it.

  2. If top lane loses lane, then they are beyond useless, especially if they are a tank champion. I can't carry games even if I'm fed if I have no tank.

  3. Autofill. I'm so tired of supports that have no idea how to support. It's ridiculous. They refuse to buy control wards, they refuse to play safe, and they don't know how to properly peel/harass. I took the time to main Thresh in season 6. I have 200k mastery on him. Why can't people learn the fucking role?

EDIT: And don't say "It's a game they shouldn't be forced to play something they don't want to." Then get Autofill the fuck out of the game.

Mimr2 votes

{quoted}

EDIT: And don't say "It's a game they shouldn't be forced to play something they don't want to." Then get Autofill the fuck out of the game.

That statement is the exact truth though. And although I'd love to remove autofill myself I'm not Riot's chief gameplay director so I can't.

karolmo1 votes

{quoted}

That statement is the exact truth though. And although I'd love to remove autofill myself I'm not Riot's chief gameplay director so I can't.

Removing autofill means i get 20 minutes queues whenever i feel like playing jungle/adc, so no. It only works for <gold ELO.

Raiyza2 votes

Yeah, people like me that cared about climbing don't care if we have to have longer queue times. It's quality over quantity. Always.

karolmo1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, people like me that cared about climbing don't care if we have to have longer queue times. It's quality over quantity. Always.

Perfectly fine for your ELO, but i'm not up for waiting 15 minutes for a game if i don't feel like supporting. And that's in plat. You're making diamonds wait for nearly 1 hour and forcing masters to play fill in order to ever find a game.

Also, if you remove autofill, get ready for kids picking support and going "let me mid or i go int" :)

Raiyza1 votes

Then take out Autofill for anything below gold. Whatever works, I don't give a flying fuck. Autofill needs to go. There are plenty of players that main support. And I will GLADLY wait for them.

Raiyza1 votes

I know. Thats my point.

Autofill is forcing people to play support. I don't care about normals, but it should not exist in ranked. I will GLADLY wait two minutes extra for a game. But riot doesn't give a shit so fuck them.

Leaf on Bush3 votes
  1. If top lane loses lane, then they are beyond useless, especially if they are a tank champion. I can't carry games even if I'm fed if I have no tank.

This is actually completely wrong. Tank tops can still act as frontline which is always beneficial for the bot lane.

Or from a junglers perspective it's actually less important to help a tank snowball, but very important to help something like a Riven to get fed, because Riven would certainly not be a reliable frontline.

Raiyza1 votes

You don't need a tank to snowball ever. They just need to make sure they don't give kills. In my games, it's ridiculous because top laners refuse to ward. They get fucked over and over and they never get the gold they need to buy items.

damage dealers need the tanks to absorb the damage so that I can do my damage. If my tank melts, I got nothing to hide behind.

Leaf on Bush1 votes

They get fucked over and over and they never get the gold they need to buy items.

Then thats not a balance problem just shitty toplaners. lol

Raiyza1 votes

I know. I said that it was a problem in MY games. I'm hard stuck in silver because I'm paired with players who have half my game knowledge.

Leaf on Bush1 votes

Still sounds like it could be hashinshin and he is not silver.

Death by Glamour8 votes

When someone loses a lane they dont go like 0/2 or 1/3 and nearly the same farm its usually a complete stomp, half the cs and tower gone in one push. Its alot to try and over come.

I still think junglers are still too influencial

Sex Crazed Eve2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=47vlAQkV,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-21T11:00:42.514+0000)

When someone loses a lane they dont go like 0/2 or 1/3 and nearly the same farm its usually a complete stomp, half the cs and tower gone in one push. Its alot to try and over come.

I still think junglers are still too influencial

Only if you play Sejuani Skarner Zac. The rest are just dead weight.

Sex Crazed Eve2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sèx Crazed Eve,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=47vlAQkV,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-02-21T11:47:45.398+0000)

Only if you play Sejuani Skarner Zac. The rest are just dead weight.

Wait, I forgot Jax Shyvana Nidalee . Shyv's getting nerfed, Nid's a heal bot late game, and jax is getting indirectly nerfed from press the attack changes.

Death by Glamour3 votes

Dont forget udyr and ww

Crede7771 votes

That's on the player(s) though. Players are too stubborn and refuse to give up CS and/or tower and as a result go from 0/2 to 0/5 while STILL losing CS and tower.

If you're 0/2 or 1/3, you need to realize if/when the enemy has kill potential on you. Turrets are currently very weak and so a 2 or 3 man dive will easily kill you. It's better to ask for assistance and then back off. It's unlikely that the jungler will come to your rescue though because in that case it's probably better to camp the lane on the opposite side of the map and try to get first tower yourself.

Skill and awareness is what takes a player from 0/0 to 0/2. It's greed and stubbornness that then takes them from 0/2 to 0/5.

BobaFlautist5 votes

What a fresh and unique take!

Iffy Jarl4 votes

I don't understand people complain about lack of agency and how one teammate refusing to participate in teamplay can lose a game, and how back in the day you could solo carry, but doesn't solo carrying rob you of agency, if top, mid, jungle all have the option to carry doesn't that just mean if mid feeds your gnna have a Malz thats going to 1v3 or a Riven that can 1v5

Madsin252 votes

No malz is 1v3ing, No riven is going to 1v5. (unless they are all already low for some reason)

That's where the lack of agency comes in. You think you are fed enough to carry but that ONE idiot on your team costs you the game by not being with you/following up.

The worst part is the same guy goes "you should've been able to carry you are trash"

PB4UAME1 votes

They all can, but ultimately, the better player will win out, and carry their team harder than the other team can collectively carry their team.

Look at basketball. Point Guards can carry games, but so can shooting guards and forwards who can sink 3's consistently. Additionally, for motion heavy offenses, the power forwards and small forwards can carry by creating space, and allowing for drives and closer shots, or lay-ups. Certainly though, the Center is not left out in any way, shape, nor form, as they are instrumental in securing boards, getting second shots, put-backs, or simply drawing fouls, not to mention they are often the single most important position defensively.

Everyone has a job, but everyone can still carry. NBA teams are frequently home to 1-2 star players, and the rest generally good players (except for the richest, most stacked teams ofc) but those star players will be all over the place in what roles they play. So one team might have a crazy tall, super solid Center, and the other team has a shooting guard with an almost 45% 3-point Field Goal Percentage. No one role dominates, all of them can carry, and its up to the best player to win, and out carry the other teams carries.

League should be the same way, but RIOT instead focused so hard on the "game-play possibility/decision making paradigm" of the carry vs carry encounter, that they tried to shoe-horn it into every fucking match by making one role THE CARRY every game, without question, so everything else could just focus around ADCs.

And well, we got this steaming pile of utter shit that League has become.

RIOT needs to stop enforcing METAs like they swear up and down for fucking years they wouldn't ever do, and the also need to whole dismantle this false, arbitrarily enforced, cookie-cutter Marksman = OMGTeH1337CARRYZOR!11!@!11!!#!R#WT#@T!#@ and everyone else is their bitch META, and get back to a much more balanced realm where everyone has impact, everyone can carry, and it is strategic decision making, team cohesion, and individual mechanical skill all together that decides games, instead of which forced super carry got more fed.

Ifneth1 votes

Every role can carry.

Top: Pick a tank, survive laning phase, and either protect your team with a Warden or engage with a Vanguard. Or pick, a fighter, and splitpush.

Jungle: Farm. Gank. Invade. Take control of the map for ten minutes straight. Get all the objectives. Then, look for picks and plays.

Mid: Shove and roam and snowball, whether on an assassin or a mage. Battle mages can choose to shove and take their turret instead.

Support: Roam. Go mid. Help an invade. Make plays. Keep your squishies safe and then turn the fight.

A smurfing Blitzcrank happened to be in my Silver decisive promos... and he won us the game by himself.

Iffy Jarl1 votes

{quoted}

They all can, but ultimately, the better player will win out, and carry their team harder than the other team can collectively carry their team.

Look at basketball. Point Guards can carry games, but so can shooting guards and forwards who can sink 3's consistently. Additionally, for motion heavy offenses, the power forwards and small forwards can carry by creating space, and allowing for drives and closer shots, or lay-ups. Certainly though, the Center is not left out in any way, shape, nor form, as they are instrumental in securing boards, getting second shots, put-backs, or simply drawing fouls, not to mention they are often the single most important position defensively.

Everyone has a job, but everyone can still carry. NBA teams are frequently home to 1-2 star players, and the rest generally good players (except for the richest, most stacked teams ofc) but those star players will be all over the place in what roles they play. So one team might have a crazy tall, super solid Center, and the other team has a shooting guard with an almost 45% 3-point Field Goal Percentage. No one role dominates, all of them can carry, and its up to the best player to win, and out carry the other teams carries.

League should be the same way, but RIOT instead focused so hard on the "game-play possibility/decision making paradigm" of the carry vs carry encounter, that they tried to shoe-horn it into every fucking match by making one role THE CARRY every game, without question, so everything else could just focus around ADCs.

And well, we got this steaming pile of utter shit that League has become.

RIOT needs to stop enforcing METAs like they swear up and down for fucking years they wouldn't ever do, and the also need to whole dismantle this false, arbitrarily enforced, cookie-cutter Marksman = OMGTeH1337CARRYZOR!11!@!11!!#!R#WT#@T!#@ and everyone else is their bitch META, and get back to a much more balanced realm where everyone has impact, everyone can carry, and it is strategic decision making, team cohesion, and individual mechanical skill all together that decides games, instead of which forced super carry got more fed.

I mean thats how league is right now I feel if an ad who is meant to carry with high dps wins then they obviously carry if a mid who is adept to carry like Akali Katarina Diana gets fed they will for sure carry same with tops who are good at carrying Riven Camille Fiora Nasus and jungles as well Khazix XinZhao Evelynn

JonasGangsta3 votes

As a bot player, I feel like whoever has the worst top/mid laner looses. I guess it goes the other way around too though. One player cannot win a game anymore, but one player can very easily loose it.

Venomar3 votes

Don't worry, they're reverting some assassin changes, then they'll fix ADC while simotaneously nerfing shielding and support items. Then riot will be shitting themselves because while the assassin reworks missed the mark, they are only a small part of the whole balance issue so there will be some panic nerfs on the now reverted new old assassins. Then they'll be nerfing the fuck out of most mages for a few patches (rather than fix thier new items, square peg, round hole, GO!) while AP Assassin's fly under the radar because of the forum outcry over Brand support. Then with no TP and more fighters running down the lane top and less shielding, weaker ADCs with weaker AD sins, we'll being seeing AP assassin/fighter spam mid and busted splitpush strats top. Then you can feel like you have agency over the game again and us bot lane players can start our bitching! Give it a few patches.

AgeOfTheMage2 votes

mhm, I would do my placements as Braum and stop procrastinating (3-0 so far) them but if I have a horrid adc I can't just support top or mid due to how much effect bot has on the game.

Disembark5 votes

Then play ADC and see how well you do with a horrid support.

AgeOfTheMage2 votes

do adc's require supports to be good?

Snowplosion6 votes

yes

JackMcSnipeyz5 votes

Adc require a team to be good. A good support can carry an -okay- adc because supports decide the lane's pace. Supports do the engage/peel and poke, adc follows, if your adc is the one who needs to engage he's gonna lose.

Note i said -okay- adc, trash players will be hard to carry regardless of their role.

mack91122 votes

I feel if a games feels close and can swing either way then it was a good game. I just feel the matchmaking has really started to have these games where one team has all the skilled players and the other team is a bunch of potatoes b them on my team or the enemies .

Leaf on Bush2 votes

Tell it to the top laners that manage to throw my games after we stomped bot and almost won. Maybe they can learn from you.

łnśane2 votes

Ha you think "better bot lane wins" LMFAO no it's "better jungler". I've played way too much games now to notice that if the jungler ganks all lanes and has pressure everywhere they will win the game. Instead of a farm bot jungler xD please stop this "better bot lane wins" [sg-miss-fortune]

FCJAAAAGOOOO2 votes

To further emphasise the difference in agency:

Not if their toplane is 8/0.

Only if your toplane is 0/8.

Ben SwoIo2 votes

I seriously hate this game now. I really don't know why I play anymore and won't be surprised if I quit for good pretty soon. Nothing ever seems to get fixed and IF it does, it takes FOREVER. Nothing changes with this crap. Same repetitive toxic op champs over and over.

I also find this season to just cater to less skilled players. It just seems like no matter how well I do mid or top, we win or lose depending on the freakin' bot lane. I HATE THAT. I can out play and out class my laner big time, but because of stupid bot lane they get to ride the wave to victory. Riot's way of evening the playing field I guess. Sucks.

LuthianDelphi1 votes

I mean, if ur playing mid you can always roam bot lane, buy a control ward and kill the support when they go to check the bush. Jungle obviously can screw botlane. It doesn't matter how ahead janna is zed will still one shot caitlyn through his shield if shes ahead, same w/ most assassins. It probably just seems like botlane does more bc in higher elo they get more peel. Theres no way to really balance that bc if you nerf adc you just make it even worse in lower elos where botlanes can be fed if they get no peel so the enemy top and mid laners or the occasional assassin jungler one shot them.

Troxic1 votes

Its been this way for a while. When I post something similar I get down voted. You got upvoted, which only proves that the people on here are too stupid to vote based on the argument.

Krytoric1 votes

this game isnt as bot lane oriented as people on the boards say, but enjoy the free upvotes cause people hate ADC for no reason

EyesOfTheFox1 votes

I played a game in which the mid lane lux fed the enemy support Morgana 2 kills in the first 10 minutes of the game. Needless to say Morgana then proceeded to go on a rampage as she was getting fed from other lanes NOT bot. Once an opponent has the slightest edge in this game (translated as more power) you can't do anything. Oh you didn't dodge that ONE stun, what its only 15 minutes into the game and you don't have a QSS yet, well that stun is gonna last 3 seconds and takes over 25% of your health away so good luck living through that while you can't play the game. Oh the enemy top laner has a three kill and 50+ cs advantage over your top laner. Well, now that top laner is just going to smash your entire team. The point I'm trying to make is that power creep has gotten so bad, you can't even outplay anymore once one person on the enemy team gets fed. It just doesn't matter. Maybe if you have a team of 5 sure you may could actually strategize your way to a win, but in solo q where everyone has the brain of a monkey it feels bad to be winning lane and then my whole team gets destroyed because 1 champion on the enemy team is fed.

EDIT: Back to bot lane, maybe think about and look at why your bot lane is failing. Did they pick a passive support that doesn't poke and just basically afk loses the game cause the marksman just has to try to farm under a tower with the tower taking dmg the whole time. Did your jgl ignore bot lane after they died one time? Did your top lane Nasus just stay top lane the whole game? Did your mid laner follow the enemy mid lane roam or just sit mid and spam ping? A lot of people's issues with this game come from their own lack of understanding more macro aspects of the game itself.

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