Athene's Unholy Grail- Too much CDR?

AHarmlessTaco·Oct 3, 2016·3 votes·1,621 views

How does everyone feel about Athene's as it currently is? Part of me really likes how it is a niche item for certain champs and how it forces a champion to be aggressive to provide sustain (unlike someone... )

The biggest problem I honestly have with it is that it just provides so much CDR, which generally wouldn't be a bad thing except that so many other items provide CDR. I mean, the mana regen it provides is nice and all, but I feel like I would rather have more potent poke than more frequent poke in a lot of cases. That way I'm not just burning through all the mana it is regenerating.

I don't know, thoughts? Anyone that plays Karma or Lulu top/mid have any opinions on it? I just can't think that this item would be a good pick up when Morellonomicon and Zhonyas and Abyssal Scepter all have CDR...

38 Comments

specter424Oct 3, 20162 votes

That item is fucking awful

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

That is the general impression I get.... I feel like it has potential though...

AmetDeCryptOct 3, 20162 votes

don't listen to anyone here trashing it, that extra flat heal on certain champs like bard that can store up the charges is amazing and really boosts their capacity. I build it almost any game I go lulu because she loves everything about it.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

I mean it felt pretty okay on Lulu and I could see it on Bard, but what do you trade out for it? Do you exceed the CDR cap and just say fuck it? When in the game do you normally buy it? (1st? 2nd? 3rd?).

Do you notice it at alllll during the late game?

AmetDeCryptOct 5, 20161 votes

these days with so many items that just cap out cdr and beyond I don't care about rationing it because the items also have really good stats elsewhere. but yea lategame is when I tend to notice it most because it's easy to build up stacks and loose them on a fully charged bard shrine for a 600+ heal.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20161 votes

That means you have to buy Athene's. Who the fuck would waste that much gold?

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Well that's kind of what I'm asking. I think it's a cool item but it just seems completely overshadowed by other buys...

ˆDekoˆOct 3, 20161 votes

Honestly, I find myself only getting it on Karma. It feels awful on support.

MakeAthenesGreatAgain item 3174

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

I just played a Lulu support game and rushed it for kicks, tbh it felt decent early but 2 more items into the game I had a hard time noticing it.

Why do you buy it on Karma and what do you swap it out for? Support? Mid?

Athenes LuluOct 3, 20161 votes

Karma support should have built Censer, and Karma mid/top would find it much better getting Morello's. The blood charge heal works so much better when shields/heals are single-target.

AptestOct 3, 20161 votes

in most cases, more AP is better than more mana regen and more CDR. poking/healing less and harder is a safer, stronger, more efficient and more effective play style... unless you take it to the extreme see Sona and Yasuo.

however there's too much CDR in the support's items. I'd rather there would be 1-2 "I want CDR" items and the other items to have different stats. Athenes is a good candidate for a CDR-centric item for supports.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Yeah, that's kind of my thoughts on the matter. I like that you are forced to poke, but being forced to poke OFTEN can get a little scary I feel like.

As a support main, I like the variety of CDR sources, but at the same time I feel like I can't afford wasted stats. The passives are really cool but everything else just makes it cost too much... Plus late game it becomes VERY hard to notice pretty much everything this item offers...

AptestOct 3, 20161 votes

you are looking at wasted stats, CDR is not the only culprit. mana regeneration is a huge gold sink with very minimal gold value after the first purchase. in most cases (sona excluded) any gold spent on any amount of mana regen past your initial support gold item is pure waste.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

I disagree with that only on the basis that I like to play Lulu and she is super mana hungry IMO. I do agree very much that you pay a lot for regen stats that become hardly noticeable in the late game. An early chalice rush provides a ton of sustain, but unlike Mikael's that has a really strong active, Athene's just seems to sort of fall over and die...

AptestOct 3, 20161 votes

I do not find lulu to be as mana hungry as you do. (used to, prior to new masteries) Than again i think you play her much different than myself.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Meditation helped a LOT, but I definitely like to use my abilities whenever they are up. Could probably be a lot more conservative on the self W's..... Also, before any team fights late game I like to maintain a perma E on my ADC if I have max cdr. It helps since it comes off cd sooner that way for a second shield if someone jumps on 'em.

Gamer Girl PaigeOct 3, 20161 votes

Everyone says it's a trash item and you are saying it has to much cdr? Lolol and it should be nerfed?

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Well, I realize everyone says it is a trash item and I am trying to figure out what about it is really trash. I mean, from my point of view it works well as an EARLY game item, but later on all of its stats seem to fade away. I'm just wondering what might make it better, and I think trading CDR for more AP might help.

Athenes LuluOct 3, 20161 votes

It's just so niche that those who don't use it will call it trash, and those who do will call it the "best item ever".

That 20% CDR is a good indicator that supports don't need to waste 600g to get that CDR enchant and replacing it after getting max CDR :^)

Honestly it's originally intended as "the alternate solution when building Morello's is not a good option", where that 20% CDR comes to place.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Don't get me wrong, I think the item is cool. However, whenever I compare Morellos and Athenes I just don't feel right trading the 60AP for regen stats. i'm not saying Athene's is weak, I just think it should have its own place that isn't the 'Ardent Censer - Morello's - child'.

"That 20% CDR is a good indicator that supports don't need to waste 600g to get that CDR enchant and replacing it after getting max CDR :^)" ^Wat? Wat does that meeean?

Athenes LuluOct 3, 20161 votes

Contrary to popular belief, Athene's isn't necessarily the "child" of Morello's and Censer, because it just have its own niche that is a little too few-champion-specific. You get Athene's on support because Censer for any given reason won't work well with you (cough Lulu), and you get that as a midlaner because you feel that maybe dealing tons of damage isn't the best way through and that you should not be pigeonholed into PURE support items (like the Mikael's/Zeke's kind of supportive dedicated) simply because of that. It's just a "middle ground" option for those that don't like going pure AP or defense, and Athene's opens up options for the "middle ground" playstyle.

And to answer your question...

As of now the "meta build" of supports is get CDR boots because people are hyped over the max CDR rush, despite maxing out CDR is already too accessible to supports. The "max CDR rush and then switch boots later" is their explanation behind why supports often rush CDR boots, and buying Athene's "skips" that replacement step. I honestly find buying CDR boots a complete waste of time and money, but to others it's not an at all bad investment.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Yeah that sounds prettttty wasteful on a class of champions that already don't have the best gold income... I would like to see itemization allow for supports to actually keep Lucidity boots.... I would buy them a lot if not for CDR on everything else...

I can see where having a middle ground item would be nice though. I don't play mid so it's difficult to judge the item from other roles' perspectives.

Exta5yOct 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How does everyone feel about Athene's as it currently is? Part of me really likes how it is a niche item for certain champs and how it forces a champion to be aggressive to provide sustain (unlike someone... )

The biggest problem I honestly have with it is that it just provides so much CDR, which generally wouldn't be a bad thing except that so many other items provide CDR. I mean, the mana regen it provides is nice and all, but I feel like I would rather have more potent poke than more frequent poke in a lot of cases. That way I'm not just burning through all the mana it is regenerating.

I don't know, thoughts? Anyone that plays Karma or Lulu top/mid have any opinions on it? I just can't think that this item would be a good pick up when Morellonomicon and Zhonyas and Abyssal Scepter all have CDR...

when i see a Lux with Athenes, i cry a little

Meep ManOct 3, 20161 votes

I guess it could work in a composition that revolves entirely around protecting an ally.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

That would be a pretty unreliable way of healing up your Kog'Maw IMO, what with the shielding everyone in its path motto. Maybe though I guess.

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

Man I kept seeing Xerath with it in Aram and it tilted me a little bit. Problem is there isn't really another good mage item with CDR besides Zhonyas....

lightdragoon88Oct 3, 20161 votes

The problem is that the passive makes it only really good for a few champs and those champs already have a whole bunch of items that for the most part are much more useful to get and they have CDR as well.

Personally...I think it needs a new passive and move this current passive to item 3504

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20162 votes

I agree with the prior statement completely.

As for the passive change, I dunno. Censer is in a pretty good spot and I would honestly like the option of buying both in a game. I see what you're saying though.

ViiLLAiNOct 3, 20161 votes

i think the item is broken on champs who can actually use its passive

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

While I do like the passive, what makes you say it is broken on them? More so than other items?

Athenes LuluOct 3, 20161 votes

Looks like someone knows the usefulness of Athene's passive and how many lives it has saved =)

k wìxOct 3, 20161 votes

Anytime I purchase item 3174 all im thinking about is mana.** Generally find item 3070 to be the better purchase. **

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

In a particular lane or in general?

k wìxOct 9, 20161 votes

As a support main - generally. Mid is a slightly different story because of the MR, but it often times seems better to buy a 'core' MR defensive item if thats the case, like item 3065 or item 3102

LordGeovanniOct 3, 20161 votes

Abyssal has been like that for a while now and had its stats siphoned away and its passive into what is now lost chapter and Morlelono icon (a trully overloaded item with too much stats cdr and passive is too high 2 of which in no particular preference needs to be lowered) Support items dont need to be weakened if anything they need better options even if they have to cost more gold. same with tank items

AHarmlessTacoOct 3, 20161 votes

I think Abyssal is in a much better spot personally, what with the CDR being loved by everyone that buys it and the mr shred being per level. I think it fills its niche quite well, but I don't think there are a lot of good alternatives for it.

Likewise, I think that Athene's has TOO MANY alternatives to the point where it could probably fill a gap elsewhere. I do agree that there should be some more expensive support items. I find myself maxing out on support items here and there and it just feels goofy to itemize properly.

I think a lot of support items hit a large utility spike upon completion and as such need to be priced low to compensate. I think if there were better intermediate items that supports would feel a bit better. The changes to Forbidden Idol were pretty nice but overall I think that items like Bami's cinder, Warden's Mail, lost chapter, and hex drinker all have very interesting passives that make them unique/strong even as an intermediate item.

LordGeovanniOct 4, 20161 votes

I dont mean Intermediate items i mean support items need to build into larger items the current items need to be intermediate items most of them dont even need changes in passive just stats increases. I personally dont like Athenes ar it currently is why did they rip the item apart to feed to an already overloaded mage item it doesnt do well enough a job of keeping mana topped off now it is just better to buy item 3070 early let and let is stack and use the ap from item 3040 to supplement the passive with out needing to charge it the cdr wont me missed since most support items have a sht load of the power budget pushed into cdr. it wont spike healing but the healing required champions takeing damage in the first place its useless in a mage support adc lane and by time mid game rolls around you also have cdr from other items so its just better to spam the heal or sheild rather than considering blood charges. only bard really loses out cause he is bad at stacking tear. abyssal is stupid because its main place is on mages that dont want to be in the auras range to use it effectively it should be a some what tanky item to supplement sunfire cape on an initiator

DrDubbSep 24, 20191 votes

I know this is an old post... But I love that it has more downvotes than upvotes because that's just how the people who hover over these boards and treat it like reddit are. They love to hate!! Well years later, League/RIOT completely agrees with you. It's at a solid 10% CDR, and it's definitely for the better! Thanks for posting and trying to make League a better place, despite all the constant push back I see most people get from this community!