Is it just me or does Karma seem a little too oppressive in the early game?

JavelinJoe··2 votes·812 views

In terms of the AP support role, she seems to function just fine like others (Morgana, Annie, Lux, etc...) However she seems to hurt a significant amount more than them. Her kit is utility based with impressive AP ratios and high base damage. But she also provides a ton of zone control with her Q, especially when buffed by Mantra. To me, she seems a bit too overpowering for the support role because 1) the Q has a relatively short cooldown but very high damage output for low levels (for reference it has 20 more base damage than Lux's e), 2) Her Mantra buff for the Q is near impossible to miss hitting at least the first part and is a very powerful zoning ability, 3) her tether is point and click with a very long range and 90% ap ratio and a root, 4) her E makes breaking the tether nearly impossible since hardly anyone can match her speed if she buffs herself, 5) the shield itself when mantra is used reaches 110% ap ratio making it incredibly hard to crack.

Ideas:

  • make her mantra replace the damage instead of adding to it, but buff the stats overall so as not to compleatly ruin its usefulness
  • make her W function like LeBlanc's tether but have it only collide with Champions
  • decrease the bonus movement speed on her E (40% at level 1 is pretty high)
  • allow her shield to scale ap instead of flat 50% at all ranks to make early ranks less strong while keeping higher ranks still viable, because 110% AP ratio (when mantra is used) at rank 1 is a pretty good for shield.
  • increase her mana costs so she isn't quite as potent but not high enough to prevent spamming

9 Comments

J E B A ł T E D4 votes

Can we ever have a good mage support without some ADC main complaining about it?

Julanus2 votes

Points 1 & 2: For her Q, play like you're against Blitz or Thresh and stand behind (not inside) your minion wave. Minions block her Q. Zigzagging can be useful to make her miss some of her Q's.

Point 3: Her tether range is not very long, and barely stretches past the casting range. It also takes 2 seconds to trigger the root. Watch which direction she's going and move opposite from her. Try forcing her to move through a clump of minions. That can often stall her movement enough to break her tether.

Point 4 & 5: If she shields to follow you, it's going to be on cooldown. Harass her and poke her down when it disappears. If she tethers your lane partner, punish her. The shield can only take so much damage, and if she's using it for aggression, she puts herself and her lane partner in danger when it's gone and on cooldown.

Extra Points: Force her to use her abilities. Karma is very cooldown reliant, so take advantage of it, especially early game when she has little/no cooldown reduction built.

If she wants to come in and poke you, punish her for doing so. Don't let her get any damage on you or your carry without dishing it right back at her.

She's a poke mage, so picking a champion with sustain (heals and other forms of survival) can help plenty.

Also, build Magic Resist. Whether you are the Carry or Support, there are options with Magic Resist for both of you.

item 1033 Null-Magic Mantle 450g - 25 Magic Resist; Buying one of these can prevent a decent portion of her poke, and can be upgraded into stronger options.

item 1057 Negatron Cloak 720g - 40 Magic Resist; upgrade it or sell it later in the game.

  • Upgrades: item 3026 Guardian Angel (Most anyone), item 3001 Abyssal Scepter (Support/Mage), item 3512 Zz'rot Portal (Support/Tank/Pusher)

item 3140 Quicksilver Sash (QSS) 1300g - 30 Magic Resist; upgrade it, or leave it as-is.

  • Upgrades: item 3139 Mercurial Scimitar (Marksman, other Auto-attackers)

item 3155 Hexdrinker 1300g - 35 Magic Resist, 20 Attack Damage, anti-magic damage passive; upgrade it, leave it as-is, or sell it later. (Useful against Karma, not so much her lane partner)

  • Upgrades: item 3156 Maw of Malmortius (Marksman, other Attack Damage-rs)

item 3105 Aegis of the Legion 1500g - 20 Magic Resist, +10 Magic Resist Aura

  • Upgrades: item 3190 Locket of the Solari (Support/Tank), item 3060 Banner of Command (Support/Mage/Pusher)

item 3028 Chalice of Harmony 1000g - 25 Magic Resist, tons of Mana Regen

  • Upgrades: item 3222 Mikael's Crucible (Support), item 3174 Athene's Unholy Grail (Mage)

item 3111 Mercury Treads 1100g - 25 Magic Resist, 30% CC Duration Reduction (Anyone)

Skize1 votes

There are already counter plays, counter setups, etc against a Karma support. Not only that, shes mostly a poke champ like Sona except skill shot reliant. If anything, you can simply enjoy freezing the lane for your jungler to get easier ganks. Her poke tends to push up the minion wave.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Karma has more counterplay than most champs, she isn't "oppressive" once you know how to play against her.

Lauchmelder1 votes

One could argue that midlane Karma is borderline oppressive. She can push fairly easily, making the enemy midlaner lose cs unless he can properly farm under tower.

IxtaliKing1 votes

In certain match ups of course, she can't really do that against the popular mid laner. That's just her power curve, starts strong then falls off quite hard, even with her shield buffs.

JavelinJoe1 votes

But with games ending more often in the mid game phase, the fall off does not happen as often.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Something that will be in her favor until the meta shifts again.

Abyssphere1 votes

Karma supp always comes across as very weak to me. Her early is never as strong as it feels like it should be and she falls off like a ton of bricks compared to any other support. Her stats suck compared to other mage supports too.

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