I think fiora is a fantastically designed champion.

Marshbouy·Jun 26, 2016·117 votes·6,827 views

I am not joking, I am not lying, and I am not a Fiora main (seriously, i suck at her. Feed every time). I just think she is a great champion. Her kit fits a fencer. She is mobile, she has ways of avoiding CC and parrying, and has a way of "targeting" enemies. Her whole kit is very unique and different from others. i love it. Does this mean that she isn't cancer to fight when she is op? No. Does this mean she is fun to lane against? No, but neither is a good chunk of the roster. Does this mean she will always be balanced? Hell no. She is different, she is unique, and Riot needs to make more champions like her. Just as long as they aren't as insane on the % max health true damage.

290 Comments

Darkslayer85Jun 26, 201645 votes

Before you downvote this thread, he's saying she's well DESIGNED, that does not in any way mean she is balanced.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20164 votes

Well designed = well balanced. Because if she's unfun to play against nobody will care how good she's looking.

MarshbouyJun 26, 201634 votes

not quite true. Well balanced is good numbers. Well designed is a good kit. yorick's numbers are fine, but his design is shit.

TehNACHOJun 26, 201622 votes

Adding onto this, old Poppy.

Riot intentionally dumpstered her numbers so as to hold her back, but everyone who knew anything about Poppy knew that if her numbers were up to par, she'd go from a nuisance to game breaking.

MarshbouyJun 26, 201615 votes

cannot agree more. if she snowballed she raped enemy teams if she was behind she was useless. Adding to that rework poppy was great. She went from trash tier to god tier, not because she became "omg super op". She became something different for pro players to work with.

DesolationKaizerJun 26, 201620 votes

Poppy rework was really well done. Same for Taric's.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20165 votes

Had 75% winrate in rankeds with old Taric, he was my main support. 5th mastery. Now what? I don't like new one! He has nothing from old one. As Taric main I have to say, this rework sucks.

MarshbouyJun 26, 201610 votes

AGAIN. YOU ARE PART OF THE MINORITY. THE VAST MAJORITY LOVED THE REWORK

Velzard of KozJun 26, 20164 votes

Well, I also liked the rework*, but... Why those minority/majority claims? Can you back them up?

* Except for the ult. The ulty is facepalm.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20163 votes

You described like... any champion in League!? Show me who won't rape enemy team when snowballed. Thresh only I guess.

MarshbouyJun 26, 201613 votes

Poppy was different. She would ult the 0 damage tank or support and then pound the rest of the team. I don't think you have played against a good poppy or been a good poppy pre rework (totally understandable, her play rate was like -0%).

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20164 votes

I have played against different Poppies and played her myself. Stop talking like you know game better than me.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20169 votes

old poppy? have you really? The vast majority of people agree that old poppy was a toxic Af champion that had a terrible design.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20164 votes

As I said, I don't care about most players, especially because with Poppy's pickrate only 10% of players played vs her. I had 100% winrate vs Poppy, because I knew who counters her. Yeah, she could be opressive, be she never gave me so much frustration as new Dari and Fiora gave, This both champions are 10 times less fun to play against than old Poppy.

TehNACHOJun 26, 20162 votes

[deleted]

MelledoneusJun 26, 20163 votes

It's a new product Abstergo is currently testing in their labs.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20162 votes

She had some very hard counterpicks.

iamthegoatofwarJun 26, 20163 votes

side note on that. Riot stated before that if anyone got past old poppy's bad early game they would hot nerf her on the spot.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20162 votes

Shit? Who said this? You? And who are you? Mister community? Pls stop talk for everyone. In my opinion Fiora is shit. Old was annoying but quite beatable, because she was squishy. New one can be fat as hell and still be able to kill you without chance.

Should I talk about her mobility, cc, true damage? It must be signs of good design! I'm not talking about her ability to counter her only counterplay - cc. Even Montecristo said it's stupid: "she counters her counterplay".

MarshbouyJun 26, 20167 votes

fucking riot said this. Thats why hes been on the rework list for years now. Are you claiming the majority of people actually think yorick is a well designed champion?

"fucking mobility, ruining league" she doesnt have any cc unless she blocks yours. Maybe you should bait out her W and then CC her after she uses it?

devdev463Jun 26, 20165 votes

{quoted}

fucking riot said this. Thats why hes been on the rework list for years now. Are you claiming the majority of people actually think yorick is a well designed champion?

"fucking mobility, ruining league" she doesnt have any cc unless she blocks yours. Maybe you should bait out her W and then CC her after she uses it?

Yeah but that relies on flora doing something wrong unless your cc is like instant like rivens w. It's not consistent counter play.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20164 votes

it is fairly consistent counter play. Maybe you just aren't good enough at baiting out her W.

devdev463Jun 26, 20165 votes

{quoted}

it is fairly consistent counter play. Maybe you just aren't good enough at baiting out her W.

If by consistent you mean fiora consistently makes mistakes sure, but that's not counter play, at least not very good counter play because your not actually countering anything, your hoping fiora is dumb enough to fall for it.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20161 votes

like i said. maybe you just arent good enough to bait out her W.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20165 votes

Yeah, someone doesn't agree with you, means he's not good enough. Nuff said.

Velzard of KozJun 26, 20164 votes

At least he didn't bring up the "vast majority thinks" again

devdev463Jun 26, 20166 votes

{quoted}

like i said. maybe you just arent good enough to bait out her W.

And like I said, it's not about whether I bait her to use it, it's about whether or not she's stupid or not skilled enough to use it at an inopportune time.

KnalxzJun 26, 20162 votes

He is right to an extent. If something is well designed it serves it's purpose to the same level. What has ever been well designed for a specific purpose and not well good for it? Balanced, fun and competitive play is League's mantra even if it gets ignored 90% of the time.

Illâoi Evê SiônJun 26, 20164 votes

If they reduced her Q range by a little bit she would also be a fantastically balanced champion ^^

MarshbouyJun 26, 20166 votes

she is actually sub 50% win rate and pretty balanced right now.

MelledoneusJun 26, 20165 votes

Her win rate is due to the fact that she's a win-lane, win-fights, lose game sort of champion.

She offers insane amounts of damage and cleanup potential. But she has nothing to offer when taking objectives or dealing with bruisers that go straight for the carries. Fiora can potentially 1v5, but no champion in the game can deal with a well-organized team alone and win. She can blow up the tank, and the ADC can use that moment to crit her to death. Or the enemy mage can wait until her parry is off cooldown to lock her down. It's the fact that Fiora CAN be a threat in team fights, but without CC she's useless when underfed.

That's why starving a Fiora in lane is an effective strategy, especially if your top laner can duel. They can deal with her earlier in the mid game and push the advantage while Fiora is still struggling to stay alive in team fights especially when she has no target to heal off of.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20163 votes

even fiora players with 125 games arent winning more than 52% of the time. She definitely isn't OP as long as you know how to play around her. she is basically a master yi that requires more skill.

MelledoneusJun 26, 20164 votes

As I said, she's a win lane, win fights, lose game champion.

Her win rate over time chart reflects that fact.

Illâoi Evê SiônJun 26, 20163 votes

What I meant to say and I what did say don't match up. Sorry. It's frustrating play against Fiora when she can dash to the side and proc her passive on you with her Q, but still be far enough away that you can't fight back (with most champions anyways). The Movement Speed and heal Fiora gets from her passive doesn't exactly help with that, either; and even if she misses, her Q will automatically target a minion instead and refund a lot of its cooldown.

In terms of frustration this is basically nothing compared to other champions in lane. But I think it could be fixed much easier than other champions' frustration, too -- by reducing her Q range by a little bit. This change might not actually work, though. But it could be worth trying out for one PBE cycle. If they end up needing to buff her elsewhere to ensure she remains balanced afterwards that would be fine with me.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20168 votes

its also "frustrating" to fight a miss fortune who half healths you with a single Q its also "frustrating" to fight a shaco who is counter jungling you to death it is also "frustrating" to fight a gangplank with his ranged barrel harrass see where i am going?

Illâoi Evê SiônJun 26, 20166 votes

Yes, when an enemy is strong it is usually "frustrating" for you. That word can easily be abused.

But what I mean when I say frustrating is that I don't feel like I can fight back in any way, or that I could have done that better. This might be due to lack of knowledge on how to play against certain champions or how to play in certain situations.
Against Miss Fortune you just don't stand behind low Health minion.
Against Shaco you try to predict where he'll show up and get your teammates help to shut him down. Vision control is also essential.
And against Gangplank you can kill his barrels and/or stand far enough away so he doesn't land them on you.

Against Fiora I only know that I can press myself against a wall if her passive is on my side and that I can play more aggressive if it's behind me. But if I have to walk a bit further out to get a creep she will proc it and there is nothing I can do against that. I can damage her, but she'll heal back up. In the worst case she'll fight back now that she's procced her passive once. It respawns immediately. She'll get another, and then another. I can CC her, but if I only have one source of CC she will be anticipating it. So I need to stay far away and poke her if I can but then I'll lose cs.

What I would like to see is for Fiora to have to make a decision when proccing her passive. A decision to possibly put herself out of position to get it. I don't feel like she has to right now.

That being said, it isn't the worst thing in the game. Fiora isn't hard to deal with anymore in the mid to late game. So ~~ maybe~~ she >probably< should be allowed to be a lane bully.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20162 votes

against fiora you could just stand far enough away so her auto attacks can't hit you with gangplank his barrels have some pretty serious zoning and range.

I don't find fiora's hard to fight because i haven't had trouble with my champ picks or skill level. frustration is subjective.

Illâoi Evê SiônJun 26, 20163 votes

It is, sadly. I just get annoyed when I picture Fiora proccing her passive ^^

ZerenzaJun 27, 20162 votes

Fiora's kit was designed to make her movement's look fluid and calculated like an actual fencer, fiora might play completely different than riven but in same way that a riven can completely outskill you, so can fiora.

Her damage was nerfed into the ground, her cooldowns were vastly increased and her heal is literally 25-115 HP for vital hit, dependent on level. A lot of champions out damage her and she has a huge amount of outplay potential and there are several hard counter's for her that just make her useless.

Yes the fiora does have to make a decision, because all of her match ups are skill match ups or counter's to her she has the complete and total possibility of loosing a trade for 1 vital proc. It happens to me all the time, i'll go in for one and get instantly half healthed because it's easy to predict were i'm going to stop dashing and were i'm going, in addition she cannot use her W until the end of her dash, meaning AOE stuns will work on her if timed correctly like say from a lissandra. Finally if you need to walk out of the range of her passive then back in to reset the vital, forcing the fiora to have to deal with it being in a different spot. It's pretty frustrating when someone does that to me especially if it's someone i know i can't fight.

I honestly think you just have an aversion to her, i have an aversion to Renekton, i just can't stop myself from feeding and i feel like there is nothing i can do even if i play safe he's just gonna dive me.

Counter's to fiora that i'v seen: Renekton, Gangplank, Malphite, Tryndamere, Kayle, Ekko, Illaoi, Pantheon, Swain(lots of sustain, slows, roots), Quinn and Lissandra.

If the fiora is really good she can still win against those but those are all pretty hard matchups for her, the higher your ELO the more frustrating fighting fiora will get but if you want to have a chance those are the champs that i'v had trouble with while playing fiora.

The illaoi one i'll explain though, its a mind game with this one, you need to be able to bait out the Fiora's W and because she has no CC you don't have to worry about being stunned back or something. Fiora has to get really close to fight you and that's what Illaoi loves more than anything, the only thing the illaoi has to do is keep up with her while she's moving from vital to vital, you out sustain her as illaoi even if she does percent health damage, it won't bother illaoi as much due to her massive sustain.

I'v lost horribly to an illaoi 3 times as fiora but only beaten one once with her. I'v also stomped several fiora's into the ground with illaoi so i'm thinking this one is in illaoi's favor you just have to be careful early.

KONO RUBICK DAJun 26, 20164 votes

which means that riot should nerf them all

i'm sorry but riot said multiple time that they nerf champs that brings furstration. Perfect example is Kassadin before his range ulti nerf.

beside, a lot of champs with sub 50% win rate were nerfed, and A LOT of them.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20163 votes

no he was flat out OP. frustration is subjective.

KONO RUBICK DAJun 26, 20164 votes

Nop, he was picked 2 time in the lcs when his ulti got nerfed, his win rate was 47%, he was slowly forgotten but was still nerfed, riot said that it wasn't fun that kassadin could instantly be in the backline.

why do you think that there was massive backtracking?

MarshbouyJun 26, 20163 votes

are you talking about when kassasin had a 96% ban rate or something different.

Velzard of KozJun 26, 20162 votes

She is different, she is unique, and Riot needs to make more champions like her.

Well, "champion" like her is also Yasuo since they both will be "Slayer - Skirmisher" class. And I ain't likin' it :P

MarshbouyJun 26, 20164 votes

difference design wise, not quite the class itself

LadyRenlyJun 26, 20161 votes

I think Fiora is fine, I wish she'd build more like a carry though and not halftank

MarshbouyJun 26, 20162 votes

true but she has to build half tank if she doesn't she will get melted like a popsicle in a jet engine.

dEAdbUsJun 26, 20164 votes

She has W for defence and R for healing. Don't think it's good that champion can have high damage without high damage items.

MarshbouyJun 26, 20161 votes

yes because we all know that you can dodge all of the ADCs auto attacks with a single W. With her R, you are infering that she actually finished it and someone didnt apply greivious wounds.

MelledoneusJun 26, 20163 votes

Fiora's kit needs some work.

Namely, the fact that she's a duelist does not mean she should be able to dive carries like an assassin. I think she should be more of a split pusher like Trundle or Nasus.